Blizzard needs to do about namingnshaming ingame

[Kralljin]

Wow, what a thread. Classic PVP ranking system, where skill is based on interacting within a community and has nothing to do with button-pushing.

I've always wished that killing faction leaders in a city raid would be a great way to get weapons comparable to rank 14 gear. Oh well.

I feel like those two points are rather contradictory to each other.

First off, "interacting with the community" is not the actual challenge, that's the part that allows to do "only" 10h-12h/day of honor grinding for multiple months instead of 16h/day+.
The real challenge is to make room in your schedule for 10h of WoW every day for 3+ months straight.

People that reduce the ranking system down to "just set up some brackets, lol" have absolutely no idea of the actual mechanics of the system.

Next to that, i don't think taking down a faction leader takes much more skill than R14, heck, your concept of of killing faction leaders actually involves management as well because you need a ton of people for those city raids.

Imagine some Hordies "visiting" Tyrande every few days while a handful of Mages standing at the Portal spawn location to Darnassus, wow, so much skill.

If you want to critize the system for its lack of matchmaking (which is a more than a valid criticism), then at least your proposed idea should have some "checks" on that as well, shouldn't it?

Genuinely surprised it lasted 12 pages. Cursory glance suggests it's a tonne of people with 0 experience in the ranking system moaning about something they don't understand at all.

This.
So much of this.

If you'd have to answer some basic question on the functionality of the Vanilla honor system in order to post in this thread, it wouldn't have made it past Page 1.

[AcidicSyn]

This is the most laughable thing i've heard all day.

A small(non elected) part of the community think they can make rules for the rest of the community and you think this is how society works. You are so out of touch with the real world rofl

The really sad part is this is actually how society works. Society is broken.

[Adamas102]

Ah ok. In that sense you're right - but that's what happens when Blizzard creates a system like the old-school ranking PVP system. It's a system based on time spent playing rather than skill. It's also a system that makes the faction compete with itself. What it does have going for it though is that, if you're a dick, and not fun to play with, you won't get shit. That's why many, many, MANY old vanilla Grand Marshals got their asses handed to them on a silver platter when TBC arenas came out. When the populace had access to the exact same PVP gear as them (Gladiator, Merciless, Vengeful and Brutal), and itemization + specs were fixed, some Grand Marshals weeped. Not all mind you, but some.

Yeah, true. I mean, WoW is pretty much built on grinding but I don't think any other system in the game requires this much management to be "successful".

[Dequanacus]

Oh, I never doubted that's the way it works, though it saddens me. Conversely, none on your side was able to convince me it is anything less than a mob-style shakedown. Nice bracket you have there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.

You never actually acknowledged any of the reasoning in my post. Specifically that all they are doing is saying they don't want to play with bracket breakers. Going through the thread though, it seems multiple people approached you with that same point which was ignored. This seems less like you having a rational reason for not liking organized pvp, and more like belligerence.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I feel like it's been grossly overlooked that in OP's post, OP stated that his friend decided to gain ranks after spamming BGs, 'just for rep'. He very likely noticed that he was gaining honor/ranks with ease, and figured that 'it's not really as hard and time consuming as people were saying it was 'back in the day''.

He was picking the fruits of other people's labour, and the people in labour came knocking on his door asking for cooperation. He declined. Fine.

Don't surprisedpikachu.jpg me when it stops being so easy because you woke a sleeping giant.

Edit: Just to be sure. I'm not saying that you should cooperate (or comply). I'm saying you shouldn't take it so personal when the people that are forced to invest more time into the game don't want to play with you when you decide the competition is too hard, and you'd like to cooperate instead.

[lockybalboa]

Name shaming is indeed against the ToS i believe?

[GreenJesus]

I feel like it's been grossly overlooked that in OP's post, OP stated that his friend decided to gain ranks after spamming BGs, 'just for rep'. He very likely noticed that he was gaining honor/ranks with ease, and figured that 'it's not really as hard and time consuming as people were saying it was 'back in the day''.

He was picking the fruits of other people's labour, and the people in labour came knocking on his door asking for cooperation. He declined. Fine.

Don't surprisedpikachu.jpg me when it stops being so easy because you woke a sleeping giant.

Edit: Just to be sure. I'm not saying that you should cooperate (or comply). I'm saying you shouldn't take it so personal when the people that are forced to invest more time into the game don't want to play with you when you decide the competition is too hard, and you'd like to cooperate instead.

What "fruits of other people's labour"? He played the game and went up in ranks. I'd say that the people controlling how much others play in order to make it easier on themselves are the ones "picking the fruit of other people's labour".

I hope Blizzard cracks down on this toxic behavior.

- - - Updated - - -

Name shaming is indeed against the ToS i believe?

Yeh this is so toxic and completely against the spirit of Vanilla. Blizzard needs to crack down hard on this.

[Kralljin]

Name shaming is indeed against the ToS i believe?

If that's the case, then any guy that went "X is a ninjalooter, don't join" breached the ToS.

It's against the ToS on MMO-C, but in the game it's allowed as far as i know.

I think that only start once actual griefing is involved, people organizing themselves to ruin the experience of that one person, such as them killing every quest mob in the region where he's questing with an Alt (you effectively prevent him from questing that way) or set up schemes with the enemy faction in order to gank him (Cross faction collusion).

What "fruits of other people's labour"? He played the game and went up in ranks. I'd say that the people controlling how much others play in order to make it easier on themselves are the ones "picking the fruit of other people's labour".
.

If people organize themselves to keep the brackets at a manageable level and then he just shows up and goes fuck you, then yes, he does ruin the work of other people.

Again, if someone plans to hit a certain rank on that week, you break the bracket and he's not reaching a certain rank, he has to play for an entire week again, which means that the effort for that week where you broke the bracket was for nothing.

Everybody_benefits_from_this_system if you're willing to play by its rules, the sole reason why you cannot gear a ton of more people (with even less effort) with that is because someone will inevitably fuck it up once there are too many people involved.

[Utrrabbit]

There is no win trading involved, just the best choosing who they play with.

That is literally win trading and is abusive of the game. People did and have been banned fot it.

Also the person who whisered the ops friend was uttering threats and is also bannable.

The ops friend is in the right and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem and should be removed.

- - - Updated - - -

If that's the case, then any guy that went "X is a ninjalooter, don't join" breached the ToS.

It's against the ToS on MMO-C, but in the game it's allowed as far as i know.

I think that only start once actual griefing is involved, people organizing themselves to ruin the experience of that one person, such as them killing every quest mob in the region where he's questing with an Alt (you effectively prevent him from questing that way) or set up schemes with the enemy faction in order to gank him (Cross faction collusion).

If people organize themselves to keep the brackets at a manageable level and then he just shows up and goes fuck you, then yes, he does ruin the work of other people.

Again, if someone plans to hit a certain rank on that week, you break the bracket and he's not reaching a certain rank, he has to play for an entire week again, which means that the effort for that week where you broke the bracket was for nothing.

Everybody_benefits_from_this_system if you're willing to play by its rules, the sole reason why you cannot gear a ton of more people (with even less effort) with that is because someone will inevitably fuck it up once there are too many people involved.

Nameshaming is against the forum rules.

However what the person did was utter threats which is 100% the tos and has resulted in peoole being banned.

You can not tell someone they are not allowed to pvp the way they want to. You can not whisler them threatening to get them banned.

[Kralljin]

Nameshaming is against the forum rules.

Go, find your own error.

However what the person did was utter threats which is 100% the tos and has resulted in peoole being banned.

Telling that they'll shame him is not against the ToS.

It's like someone ninjalooting, which is only against the ToS if the PL stated the rules; if the PL "forgot" about that, he can do whatever he wants, Loot is at his / her mercy.
All you can do now is to call him out in Discord / Trade chat and you're not getting banned for it.

You can not tell someone they are not allowed to pvp the way they want to.

And no one can tell me on what loot i'll roll need!

[GreenJesus]

If that's the case, then any guy that went "X is a ninjalooter, don't join" breached the ToS.

It's against the ToS on MMO-C, but in the game it's allowed as far as i know.

I think that only start once actual griefing is involved, people organizing themselves to ruin the experience of that one person, such as them killing every quest mob in the region where he's questing with an Alt (you effectively prevent him from questing that way) or set up schemes with the enemy faction in order to gank him (Cross faction collusion).

If people organize themselves to keep the brackets at a manageable level and then he just shows up and goes fuck you, then yes, he does ruin the work of other people.

Again, if someone plans to hit a certain rank on that week, you break the bracket and he's not reaching a certain rank, he has to play for an entire week again, which means that the effort for that week where you broke the bracket was for nothing.

Everybody_benefits_from_this_system if you're willing to play by its rules, the sole reason why you cannot gear a ton of more people (with even less effort) with that is because someone will inevitably fuck it up once there are too many people involved.

I guess part of this is Blizzard's fault for making such a non-skill based ranking system that is strictly based on how much time you play. Thank God they moved away from this and implemented a ranking system based on skill (mostly). It basically encourages players to implement fascist communism.

[Thunderball]

That is literally win trading and is abusive of the game. People did and have been banned fot it.

Also the person who whisered the ops friend was uttering threats and is also bannable.

The ops friend is in the right and anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem and should be removed.

There is nothing threatening in that message. Threatening to his experience playing a particular character? Maybe, but nothing targeted at the person playing the character. People who think they can label anything they dont like with any of those terrible buzzwords that's flying around all the time and get rid of it are the plague of our society. You are the problem. You throw labels attracting attention to meaningless stuff that is only relevant to you diverting the attention from real issues.

You can not tell someone they are not allowed to pvp the way they want to.

You can unless you break the ToS. You can make opposite faction gank him, you can get him banned from organized pvp, you can even get him kicked from a guild if he's a major offender and his guild values their spot in the organized pvp community. All of that is fair play and is a big reason why people like Classic.

[ZazuuPriest]

You think going to people and tell them: "You need to stop Playing, or we make you transfer servers" is not Harassment?

Edit: or "You may only generate X Honor/week, or we make you transfer servers" to make it more Accurate.

they literally cant "make" anyone do anything stop acting like they can

[Thunderball]

It basically encourages players to implement fascist communism.

You mean it encourages actual community? Oh the horrors.

Thank God they moved away from this and implemented a ranking system based on skill (mostly).

RBGs are way worse than Classic ranking. And no, dont try to mention Arena here, it has nothing to do with any kind of community or organized pvp. Different content, albeit the system works slightly better than vanilla ranking, still has a ton of issues tho.

[h8ryan]

Why do people have 0 concept as to how brackets work and then go on to spout their opinions on a forum?

If your friend was breaking brackets odds are he was playing over 30 hours of BGs a week to reach that point, them telling him to stop is beneficial for him. If he keeps breaking brackets instead of waiting his turn for his higher rankings he's going to get blacklisted from premades. Nobody is telling him he can't pvp, he's just not going to be able to leech off the work of others by getting invites to premades, he's welcome to try to bracket break by solo qing all day if he truly enjoys pvp that much and not just pvping in a premade where he can actually win.

[Kralljin]

I guess part of this is Blizzard's fault for making such a non-skill based ranking system that is strictly based on how much time you play. Thank God they moved away from this and implemented a ranking system based on skill (mostly).

"Don't hate the player, hate the game".

The Vanilla Honor system is pretty much the most broken system this game has ever seen.

It basically encourages players to implement fascist communism.

And now you're just trying to brandmark them with some "evil" political terms.

Like, what? Fascist communism? A term that's one massive contradiction.
Both are form of a authoritarian goverment, but that's about it.

And people that seriously argue against this "coordination" have not seen what people have been doing if everybody just goes full wild west on the caps without any coordination.

Want to know how that ended for me earlier this year?
I missed R10 by one week (was missing 10%) as i was grinding over course of Christmas holidays last year.
Why did i miss it? I had to back to work and couldn't keep up with people that were no life'ing it.

Now, after the most tryhard bunch people are done and you have set up coordinated caps, it's actually possible for me to Rank (altough not R14) without actually quitting my job.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I guess part of this is Blizzard's fault for making such a non-skill based ranking system that is strictly based on how much time you play. Thank God they moved away from this and implemented a ranking system based on skill (mostly). It basically encourages players to implement fascist communism.

Look man. You could argue that some may have felt a bit coerced into playing along with this 'fascist communist' regime, but the majority will simply be sympathizers, and that is their right. You don't have to be in the same guild but you are, sort of.

If you don't agree to their method, go ahead and do it your own way, but you will have to set up your own team to be able to actually compete with an already established team. There is no competition because there is no desire for it. Please create it if you want it.

[Dequanacus]

That is literally win trading and is abusive of the game. People did and have been banned fot it.

You're right, that's why guilds and parties/raids are bannable offenses. Literally people choosing who gets to come and who doesn't. Makes me sick.

[TotallyGenericName]

I remember my grind to Grand Marshal on my Night Elf Warrior on Matheridon-US many moons ago. Most of what is being described in this thread as WoW Classic specific is simply not.

I remember vehemently opposing win trading yet many of my competitors did it. I can assure you that it very much is happening nowadays. It is one of the few ways that people can game the system and, if they're smart about it like many of my competitors were, there is no in game communication and they will play the matches out while just running the flag (as WSG was the predominant battleground used to gain honor) with their Druid based on whoever's turn it was to win.

While you might have Discord today, it was simply Ventrilo back then, and while technologically inferior, it certainly did the job just fine. My question to your friend is this: why not just form your own group? I did. It's not that hard to take initiative. It's the employer versus employee mentality.

There is no greater understanding of how the honor system works today than there was back then. We all knew about brackets and how ranks were done. We just loved playing the game and loved PvPing.

It's true. The honor system is a slog devoid of skill. I realized this when my friends and I achieved Gladiator in TBC. But, if this is what people want, who am I to tell them otherwise?

[Dequanacus]

What "fruits of other people's labour"? He played the game and went up in ranks. I'd say that the people controlling how much others play in order to make it easier on themselves are the ones "picking the fruit of other people's labour".

I hope Blizzard cracks down on this toxic behavior.

It's really pretty simple. The best premade leaves the bracket low because they have no reason to push it higher. If someone else comes and breaks the bracket, the premade simply raises the bracket to above what the bracket breaker put it at and tells the bracket breaker that they aren't going to play with them. Pretty toxic.