Void and light are stronger than arcane, spirit, nature, decay, necromancy, and fel

[Velshin]

I don't consider Jaina strong, at the broken shore she only made an ice bridge and then varian got killed. She didn't do squat even though she has the second most powerful staff in the world.

I guess you forgot that Jaina was already capable of drowning the entire city of Orgrimmar eh?

[darkoms]

I guess you forgot that Jaina was already capable of drowning the entire city of Orgrimmar eh?

With super artifact, yep

[Houle]

(i mean, the nether and fel were created when light and void clashedm,so one could argue it is the worst of both worlds)

but really, no. no power is "stronger", it all depends on the wielder.
a pitlord would crush a normal void walker, but a void lord would rip a pit lord to pieces.
a void god (fallen naaru) would kill an imp, but would be fcked if sargeras showed up.
from what weve seen so far, all forces in itself are pretty much equal, but certain beings are much more powerful than others

[TheRevenantHero]

Open cosmology and see

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Enough. Write. This. Nonsense. Yogg-Saron could not subdue the Scourge because the voice of the Lich King drowned out the whispers of Yogg-Saron. Free undead never demonstrated immunity to the forces of the Void.

Except it has been confirmed by the devs that Ebon Blade can freely use saronite without corruption even AFTER the Lich King lost control of them. So you're 100% wrong.

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Okay, but you're not changing anything. If a mere minion of the Old Gods was so corruptive that even gods fell before him, imagine how corruptive the masters of the Old Gods must be. That's the point.

Actually you don't need to imagine anyway, we know for a fact that the Void Lords' corruption could consume the entire cosmos.

The main reason they were able to corrupt the Dream was because Fandral was an idiot and planted a world tree on top of saronite rich land.

[darkoms]

Except it has been confirmed by the devs that Ebon Blade can freely use saronite without corruption even AFTER the Lich King lost control of them. So you're 100% wrong.

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The main reason they were able to corrupt the Dream was because Fandral was an idiot and planted a world tree on top of saronite rich land.

Yeah, when Yogg-Saron was already dead. Well, I think DK is the highest undead and their resistance is much higher than that of ordinary zombies. I am always right. There are renounced cultists in the twilight's hammer, there is this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Julak-Doom

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah, when Yogg-Saron was already dead. Well, I think DK is the highest undead and their resistance is much higher than that of ordinary zombies. I am always right. There are renounced cultists in the twilight's hammer, there is this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Julak-Doom

For one, Yogg'Saron isn't dead. Two, saronite corrupts regardless because it is a metal formed from the blood of Old Gods and will corrupt any living thing that touches it. Undead are completely immune. Third of all, comparing a Void creature ACTIVELY ATTACHED TO AN UNDEAD AND USING IT AS A BATTLEMECH to the corruption from saronite is high tier idiocy. You're wrong. Get over it.

[Grazrug]

The truth is In the end only death will be the strongest of them. Il'gynoth has prophecies it
Six seats at the high table. Six mouths that hunger. One will consume all others.
"

[Houle]

For one, Yogg'Saron isn't dead. Two, saronite corrupts regardless because it is a metal formed from the blood of Old Gods and will corrupt any living thing that touches it. Undead are completely immune. Third of all, comparing a Void creature ACTIVELY ATTACHED TO AN UNDEAD AND USING IT AS A BATTLEMECH to the corruption from saronite is high tier idiocy. You're wrong. Get over it.

my man, yogg is very dead
look around a bit, this discussion is raged for a few years but its over now. confirmed by blizz multiple times, all the old gods are dead for now

[darkoms]

For one, Yogg'Saron isn't dead. Two, saronite corrupts regardless because it is a metal formed from the blood of Old Gods and will corrupt any living thing that touches it. Undead are completely immune. Third of all, comparing a Void creature ACTIVELY ATTACHED TO AN UNDEAD AND USING IT AS A BATTLEMECH to the corruption from saronite is high tier idiocy. You're wrong. Get over it.

Yogg-Saron is dead. It’s just that he can influence the world even after death, even if only a little. Saronite makes Yogg-Saron whisper. This is much more difficult when the old god is dead. Stop demonstrating how poorly you know the lore. Scourge is immune. Do not undead. For example, the Forsaken and even Sylvanas succumbed to the Emerald Nightmare and fell asleep. I just gave you an example of how just an insignificant servant of the Old God subjugated the undead (albeit by a different method). Again. There are Forsaken Cultists in Twilight's Hammer. I'm always right. Get over it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yogg-Saron is dead. It’s just that he can influence the world even after death, even if only a little. Saronite makes Yogg-Saron whisper. This is much more difficult when the old god is dead. Stop demonstrating how poorly you know the lore. Scourge is immune. Do not undead. For example, the Forsaken and even Sylvanas succumbed to the Emerald Nightmare and fell asleep. I just gave you an example of how just an insignificant servant of the Old God subjugated the undead (albeit by a different method). Again. There are Forsaken Cultists in Twilight's Hammer. I'm always right. Get over it.

The devs have said over and over that Old Gods CANNOT die as they exist outside of the cycle of life and death. We killed a physical manifestation of Yogg'Saron. He is definitely not dead and the devs have reinforced that fact in Lore Q&As in the past. As for saronite, it doesn't JUST cause people to hear the whispers. It's corrupts them mind and soul, causing them to go absolutely insane.

Also, so what if they had dreams that were influenced the by Nightmare? that's completely irrelevant. My point is that can't be CORRUPTED by the Void. That quest mob wasn't corrupted by the Void. A creature just straight latched onto its head and essentially piloted it like a mech. How that Void entity subjugated has nothing to do with the Void. It latched onto the thing's head like a parasite because Void energy simply could not affect it. If the undead creature wasn't immune then it would have been mutated from constant exposure to a Void creature. But the flesh golem is devoid of any Void corruption because once again....THE VOID CAN'T CORRUPT UNDEAD. As for Forsaken cultists, that is also completely irrelevant since there is only one known Forsaken working with the Twilight Hammer. And guess what? Unlike all the other cultists, he is completely immune to the Void's influence. And when it comes to the Scourge, it was because they were undead and not because of the Lich King's will. The Ebon Blade is nuder the Lich King's will yet they are able to safely work with saronite and WEAR saronite armor without any risk of corruption.

You have no idea what the actual fuck you're talking about. You are not right. Not even SLIGHTLY. You accuse me of not knowing the lore yet you are picking and choosing portions of the lore to fit your narrative. In the future, try to read ALL the lore you're trying to spout out rather than skimming everything. But I'm sure you know better than the devs right?

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my man, yogg is very dead
look around a bit, this discussion is raged for a few years but its over now. confirmed by blizz multiple times, all the old gods are dead for now

Their physical manifestations that had come through are dead. Yogg'Saron is listed as Defeated in lore as opposed to Deceased like other lore people that have been killed. Blizzard has said that Old Gods cannot live or die because they live outside the cycle of life and death. The only Old Gods to have TRULY been completely eradicated are Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth. C'thun and Yogg'Saron still exist and Blizzard said there is a likely chance we'll see them again in the future.

[Maljinwo]

Arcane can make food

Checkmate

[darkoms]

The devs have said over and over that Old Gods CANNOT die as they exist outside of the cycle of life and death. We killed a physical manifestation of Yogg'Saron. He is definitely not dead and the devs have reinforced that fact in Lore Q&As in the past. As for saronite, it doesn't JUST cause people to hear the whispers. It's corrupts them mind and soul, causing them to go absolutely insane.

Also, so what if they had dreams that were influenced the by Nightmare? that's completely irrelevant. My point is that can't be CORRUPTED by the Void. That quest mob wasn't corrupted by the Void. A creature just straight latched onto its head and essentially piloted it like a mech. How that Void entity subjugated has nothing to do with the Void. It latched onto the thing's head like a parasite because Void energy simply could not affect it. If the undead creature wasn't immune then it would have been mutated from constant exposure to a Void creature. But the flesh golem is devoid of any Void corruption because once again....THE VOID CAN'T CORRUPT UNDEAD. As for Forsaken cultists, that is also completely irrelevant since there is only one known Forsaken working with the Twilight Hammer. And guess what? Unlike all the other cultists, he is completely immune to the Void's influence. And when it comes to the Scourge, it was because they were undead and not because of the Lich King's will. The Ebon Blade is nuder the Lich King's will yet they are able to safely work with saronite and WEAR saronite armor without any risk of corruption.

You have no idea what the actual fuck you're talking about. You are not right. Not even SLIGHTLY. You accuse me of not knowing the lore yet you are picking and choosing portions of the lore to fit your narrative. In the future, try to read ALL the lore you're trying to spout out rather than skimming everything. But I'm sure you know better than the devs right?

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Their physical manifestations that had come through are dead. Yogg'Saron is listed as Defeated in lore as opposed to Deceased like other lore people that have been killed. Blizzard has said that Old Gods cannot live or die because they live outside the cycle of life and death. The only Old Gods to have TRULY been completely eradicated are Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth. C'thun and Yogg'Saron still exist and Blizzard said there is a likely chance we'll see them again in the future.

Stop talking nonsense. One faceless once said that the Old Gods cannot die, that's all. The developers said several times that the Old Gods are dead. Or is Yashaarj alive? Corrupts the soul? What nonsense are you talking about? Saronite makes you hear the whispers of Yogg-Saron and therefore people go crazy. READ THIS
https://ru.classic.wowhead.com/news=...user-and-r-wow

Q: Third Chronicles have information about Old Gods. Every Old God, except N'Zoth, have been beaten, but not "killed". Is it true? Are Old Gods like C'Thun or Yogg-Saron still alive?

AA: I would say we should consider them dead. However as with all things in World of Warcraft and the Warcraft's universe dead isn't always dead. If there was a coming of forth of the Old Gods or herald of the Old Gods come down from the great dark-- I can see that easily happening. Not saying that happening, I'm just saying death isn't the end of the line in World of Warcraft, and it really never has been. I think that's kind of been from your character to the world around you. There is a cycle.

They fell asleep from the influence of the Nightmare, before that they did not have to sleep at all. He was spoiled so BECAUSE THESE BEINGS WORK. They do not subdue in a whisper, but grab their head. And how did you determine that the Forsaken is immune to the Void?

No, you have no idea what you're talking about. The immunity of the undead to the Void is one of the oldest and most stupid myths of the Warcraft universe, and only people who absolutely do not know the lore believe in it.

[Tripzzz]

....THE VOID CAN'T CORRUPT UNDEAD.

That is bullshit headcanon. If undead are immune to void corruption, why does the forsaken player still get corrupted by N'zoth and have to be bailed out by the heart of azeroth/magni? Even during the fight itself the forsaken player is not immune to void corruption or it's effects. Nor is this "fact"(actually headcanon) brought up at all during the confrontation with N'zoth. The only reason the scourge was somewhat "immune" was because the Lich King was dominating their minds and keeping them in check.

[TheRevenantHero]

Stop talking nonsense. One faceless once said that the Old Gods cannot die, that's all. The developers said several times that the Old Gods are dead. Or is Yashaarj alive? Corrupts the soul? What nonsense are you talking about? Saronite makes you hear the whispers of Yogg-Saron and therefore people go crazy. READ THIS
https://ru.classic.wowhead.com/news=...user-and-r-wow

Q: Third Chronicles have information about Old Gods. Every Old God, except N'Zoth, have been beaten, but not "killed". Is it true? Are Old Gods like C'Thun or Yogg-Saron still alive?

AA: I would say we should consider them dead. However as with all things in World of Warcraft and the Warcraft's universe dead isn't always dead. If there was a coming of forth of the Old Gods or herald of the Old Gods come down from the great dark-- I can see that easily happening. Not saying that happening, I'm just saying death isn't the end of the line in World of Warcraft, and it really never has been. I think that's kind of been from your character to the world around you. There is a cycle.

They fell asleep from the influence of the Nightmare, before that they did not have to sleep at all. He was spoiled so BECAUSE THESE BEINGS WORK. They do not subdue in a whisper, but grab their head. And how did you determine that the Forsaken is immune to the Void?

No, you have no idea what you're talking about. The immunity of the undead to the Void is one of the oldest and most stupid myths of the Warcraft universe, and only people who absolutely do not know the lore believe in it.

Considering them dead and actually BEING dead are two completely different things. Kil'jaedan was considered dead for a long time as was Archimonde. As I said, the only two Old Gods confirmed to be deceased are Y'Shaarj and N'zoth. C'thun and Yogg'Sarron are simply listed as "defeated" in lore. The Old Gods exist outside of the cycle of life and death, therefore they have not truly died. We merely defeated their physical manifestations. They even say that in the interview.

Are you purposely not reading everything I said or are you actually that incapable of reading everything? I will say it again....UNDEAD ARE IMMUNE TO VOID CORRUPTION. As in, yes it can affect them negatively but there is absolutely no chance of them becoming warped and controlled by the Void. All other creatures in WoW lore end up developing extra eyes and tentacles and such. Yet all undead creatures in lore that have spent significant time around Void corruption have absolutely none of these mutations. And when it comes to saronite, it's actuallt never explicitly said that it is Yogg'Saron directly whispering to them. As a matter of fact, the language used to describe it is simply saying it causes living beings to turn to violent insanity while hearing voices. Since saronite is literally hardened blood of an Old God, of course that's what's going to happen. Saronite didn't stop being a corrupting substance after Yogg'Saron was defeated so that pretty much throws what you said in the trash where it belongs.

As for the undead golem, saying he is Void corrupted is like me saying that my car becomes part human simply because I'm inside of it and controlling it. Undead being immune to direct Void corruption isn't a myth just because it doesn't fit your narrative. So stop saying I'm wrong. Because I'm not. There is a difference between hearing whispers and getting corrupted by them. Every creature can hear the whispers but undead cannot be corrupted by it. Look at the Cult of Forgotten Shadow. They use Void magic all the time and show zero signs of actual corruption.

[Velshin]

With super artifact, yep

Yeah, artifacts are in the end tools someone need to be strong enough to wield its powers really.

[TheRevenantHero]

That is bullshit headcanon. If undead are immune to void corruption, why does the forsaken player still get corrupted by N'zoth and have to be bailed out by the heart of azeroth/magni? Even during the fight itself the forsaken player is not immune to void corruption or it's effects. Nor is this "fact"(actually headcanon) brought up at all during the confrontation with N'zoth. The only reason the scourge was somewhat "immune" was because the Lich King was dominating their minds and keeping them in check.

Game mechanics =/= lore. They can be corrupted because if they couldn't then literally every raid team would have been nothing but fucking Forsaken. So go ahead and toss that notion in the garbage. Scourge weren't just somewhat immune. They were completely immune. Death knights were still able to wear saronite armor after they had freed themselves of the Lich King's will with absolutely no corruption, so there goes YOUR headcanon trying to claim it was purely because of the Lich King's will.

[darkoms]

Considering them dead and actually BEING dead are two completely different things. Kil'jaedan was considered dead for a long time as was Archimonde. As I said, the only two Old Gods confirmed to be deceased are Y'Shaarj and N'zoth. C'thun and Yogg'Sarron are simply listed as "defeated" in lore. The Old Gods exist outside of the cycle of life and death, therefore they have not truly died. We merely defeated their physical manifestations. They even say that in the interview.

Are you purposely not reading everything I said or are you actually that incapable of reading everything? I will say it again....UNDEAD ARE IMMUNE TO VOID CORRUPTION. As in, yes it can affect them negatively but there is absolutely no chance of them becoming warped and controlled by the Void. All other creatures in WoW lore end up developing extra eyes and tentacles and such. Yet all undead creatures in lore that have spent significant time around Void corruption have absolutely none of these mutations. And when it comes to saronite, it's actuallt never explicitly said that it is Yogg'Saron directly whispering to them. As a matter of fact, the language used to describe it is simply saying it causes living beings to turn to violent insanity while hearing voices. Since saronite is literally hardened blood of an Old God, of course that's what's going to happen. Saronite didn't stop being a corrupting substance after Yogg'Saron was defeated so that pretty much throws what you said in the trash where it belongs.

As for the undead golem, saying he is Void corrupted is like me saying that my car becomes part human simply because I'm inside of it and controlling it. Undead being immune to direct Void corruption isn't a myth just because it doesn't fit your narrative. So stop saying I'm wrong. Because I'm not. There is a difference between hearing whispers and getting corrupted by them. Every creature can hear the whispers but undead cannot be corrupted by it. Look at the Cult of Forgotten Shadow. They use Void magic all the time and show zero signs of actual corruption.

I repeat. THE ONLY TIME WHEN IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT THEY WERE OUT OF THE CYCLE OF LIFE AND DEATH, THERE WAS A MOMENT WHEN THE SUNDY SAID IT. You know, the SERVANT of the Old Gods. The interview says they are dead, but can return. Not that they are not dead. Learn the lore and stop believing in stupid myths.

Please stop talking nonsense. We simply have never seen the undead, which is very closely related to the Void. For example, Benedictus also did not have tentacles and new eyes. So he did not succumb to the corruption of the Void?

No, this is a myth that people believe without realizing that the Scourge was protected from the whispers of Yogg-Saron in the voice of the Lich King. Warlocks also constantly use fel, but show no signs of distortion (only those who have accepted too much foulness). And if you are talking about game mechanics, then maybe DK use this armor are also game mechanics? How do you know whether they hear a whisper or not? When playing for Void Elf, there is also no whisper, but we know that the entrance of the elves constantly hear this whisper.

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Yeah, artifacts are in the end tools someone need to be strong enough to wield its powers really.

However, she cannot flood Orgrimmar without a super artifact.

[Tripzzz]

Game mechanics =/= lore. They can be corrupted because if they couldn't then literally every raid team would have been nothing but fucking Forsaken. So go ahead and toss that notion in the garbage. Scourge weren't just somewhat immune. They were completely immune. Death knights were still able to wear saronite armor after they had freed themselves of the Lich King's will with absolutely no corruption, so there goes YOUR headcanon trying to claim it was purely because of the Lich King's will.

Yet there is no dialouge that states such a thing. Forsaken players are still subject to corruption gear and its effects. And DKs are a higher tier of undead than forsaken. Wearing saronite gear isn't the same as facing a old god in his domain. Your comparison is garbage. Only forsaken fanboys believe that headcanon. LMAO!!

[darkoms]

Yet there is no dialouge that states such a thing. Forsaken players are still subject to corruption gear and its effects. And DKs are a higher tier of undead than forsaken. Wearing saronite gear isn't the same as facing a old god in his domain. Your comparison is garbage. Only forsaken fanboys believe that headcanon. LMAO!!

It's nice to see people who really know lore on this forum.

[Auxis]

I mean, yeah. The Void is so dangerous that it made Sargeras go insane out of fear. The Void and Light are the only forces that could potentially subjugate the entire cosmos.

Aye. There are theories that Warcraft's universe is cyclic, in one form or another.
It's only natural; the Light and Shadow are waging a war over it; and if the naaru are anything to go by, then it's quite possible that when one side wins, the losing side can bounce right back (naaru, upon death, turn into void entities... strange that. A Holy being completely turns into a Void being).

Il'gynoth even hints at prophecies and known things in his Emerald Nightmare encounter:
"Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete."

Rings could be a pun; he is literally a tree in this encounter. But the long circle? Circles don't have a begining or an end; they are eternal. We could be on a constantly overlapping circle, in which the 2 cosmic forces are playing tug-of-war over us.