What if Blizzard made Night Elves a power house again?

[Mace]

She works well as military commander, that's right. She seems to be way more tollerant now. If we are about swaping night elf leadership, perhaps duo Jarod - Maiev as co-leaders could work.

I keep thinking that Cordana was meant to be Maiev, and then Sira. If only they had saved Frandral like that huh.

In my opinion a Highborne is best suited to start playing the role Fandral played - but without turning into a villain. As much as I like him, it doesn't fit Prince Farondis, but it could be a close advisor. From the little I've seen it doesn't fit Mordant Evenshade or reclusive Estulan, although we know little about Mordant that he could be used that way. Now Mordant's protégé who died in Wolfheart would have been perfect.

[Manariel]

If they change the NE leadership, I hope Shandris won't be considered. Blizzard has defanged her so badly she'd probably co-reign with a Highborne if Anduin or Keeshan asked her...

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard has defanged her so badly.

It isn't just her. Everyone in BfA has been badly defanged - and it is especially irksome in the case of nelfs and forsaken.

[Hellspawn]

It isn't just her. Everyone in BfA has been badly defanged - and it is especially irksome in the case of nelfs and forsaken.

How have the night elfs been defanged in BFA? If anything they got their fangs finally back after 15 years of world of warcraft.

If they change the NE leadership, I hope Shandris won't be considered. Blizzard has defanged her so badly she'd probably co-reign with a Highborne if Anduin or Keeshan asked her...

I don't know, before BFA she did not have a bigger role to assert this. If she takes over they should make her more opinionated instead of just a contrast to Tyrande. During the war campaign she her actions were cold calculated while she cared about the people she worked with. So if you can bring an exampled how she handled differently before I would be curious to hear about it.

[Soon-TM]

How have the night elfs been defanged in BFA? If anything they got their fangs finally back.

If you think that Darkshore, their only appearance when they are something other than a punching bag, is when "they got their fangs back"... then I'm at a loss of words with you.

[Hellspawn]

If you think that Darkshore, their only appearance when they are something other than a punching bag, is when "they got their fangs back"... then I'm at a loss of words with you.

It's all exposure they got as a race-development in the expansion (while most other races apart from UD only got their heritage quest) and thats more then they got in the last 15 years. Also we got Tyrande who is still angry with the Horde and doesn't accept peace with them (unlike at the end of mist of pandaria). I wouldn't say that they got their warcraft 3 fangs back but its a start. As I said before its more then they got in the 15 years, they attacked on screen and won. So development seems to be going into a direction where they may get their warcraft 3 fangs back... while the Forsaken go into a more pacifistic direction.

When where the Night elves a powerhouse? When they lost the war against a single strain of the aqir while the trolls won against all three strains PLUS a Cthrax? When a single clan of orcs killed their demigod in front of them?

And all troll tribes combined were beaten by the Kaldorei Empire with ease. You know, everyone can be selective with the events he brings up.

[Kithelle]

Never gonna happen...it's painfully obvious they don't give a damn about Nelves.

[Hellspawn]

The Kaldorei Empire had arcane users and the Well of Eternity.

The trolls had magic to and quite powerful magic even as we discover in BFA. Also the trolls were numerous compared to what the night elfs got.

Never gonna happen...it's painfully obvious they don't give a damn about Nelves.

If they would not care there would not have been a Darkshore warfront and Tyrande would have accepted the peace with the Horde just like in Mist of Pandaria.

[Mace]

The Kaldorei Empire had arcane users and the Well of Eternity.

and Night Warriors of Elune, working hand in hand, in fact after 8.1, it's my opinion that the Night Warirors were the cutting edge, and then arcane generals like SPellblade Aluriel, Moonguard and co, backed them up.

You saw the arcane and void magic they were wielding, even in the current timeline we see Moonguard in 7.0.1 and Tyrande in 8.1 wiping the floor - and their opposition were seasoned Nightborne and horde combatants as well as a pair of Valkyr.

[Tuor]

and Night Warriors of Elune, working hand in hand, in fact after 8.1, it's my opinion that the Night Warirors were the cutting edge, and then arcane generals like SPellblade Aluriel, Moonguard and co, backed them up.

You saw the arcane and void magic they were wielding, even in the current timeline we see Moonguard in 7.0.1 and Tyrande in 8.1 wiping the floor - and their opposition were seasoned Nightborne and horde combatants as well as a pair of Valkyr.

Except its clearly stated they only got a Night Warrior once before, and that all of those that tried the ritual died... untill Tyrande tried it.


Why does everything with you has to resume around magic, when the large majority of NElfs don't even descend from Highborne.

[Mace]

Why does everything with you has to resume around magic, when the large majority of NElfs don't even descend from Highborne.

Just correcting mistakes peeps make concerning magic in the night elves. That's what this topic is for.

Night elven arcane magic is not exclusive to the Highborne, you do know that right?.. Highborne are night elves that the Queen could find who were very talented with the arcane, they're not a special race of night elves, it isn't only those who are descended from Highborne that are talented, they come from night elves, so that magical talent is in night elves. this is why the Shen'dralar are able to replenish their numbers, they're doing what Azshara was doing, testing and picking night elves with great talent from the arcane. Illidan is a classic example of a night elf with arcane talent rivalling Azshara, but he wasn't Highborne. The queen canot test everyone in the empire, so there where would very talented non-Highborne night elves, even with the caste formed , the concentration of arcane talent would be higher within it because of breeding passing down, but the same talent would show up in the population.


Also the information about the night warrior conquering Kalimdor comes from 8.1, so we know it was not just the battle mages wielding the arcane that led to victory, but night warriors - and we know what magic night warriors wield, they wield arcane and void, and their source is not the Well of Eternity - it's the stars, moon. We also k now Moonguard were involved, and generals like Spellblade Aluriel you fight in the Nighthold - if you actually listen to what she says .


I say these thigs because the lore shows them, but it's clear not many people are aware, and often ignore, so I'm happy to help set the record straight.

[Tuor]

Just correcting mistakes peeps make concerning magic in the night elves. That's what this topic is for.

I thought that was the point of your ... Other thread, looks like you got more then one thread to do your job.

Night elven arcane magic is not exclusive to the Highborne, you do know that right?..

I know and understand that quite well...

Highborne are night elves that the Queen could find who were very talented with the arcane, they're not a special race of night elves, it isn't only those who are descended from Highborne that are talented, they come from night elves, so that magical talent is in night elves. this is why the Shen'dralar are able to replenish their numbers, they're doing what Azshara was doing, testing and picking night elves with great talent from the arcane. Illidan is a classic example of a night elf with arcane talent rivalling Azshara, but he wasn't Highborne. The queen canot test everyone in the empire, so there where would very talented non-Highborne night elves, even with the caste formed , the concentration of arcane talent would be higher within it because of breeding passing down, but the same talent would show up in the population.

The bolded part say's it all, can you even understand what you wrote?? No? They have always been a minority, because the large portion of the Kaldorei didn't used arcane magic at all... From those that didn't used magic, and that don't descend from Highborne, came the NElf's we currently play.

Yes, much of them are talented for arcane magic, which they choosed not to use. for over then 10k years.

Also the information about the night warrior conquering Kalimdor comes from 8.1,

Yeah, so sorry about that... I thought the video i posted was patch 8.1.

so we know it was not just the battle mages wielding the arcane that led to victory,

And obviously the Druids haven't donne anything, those sleepy bastards... But wait a minute, Malfurion in actually in the video.

I wonder, again, why has to be everithing to resume about magic with you and Ravenmoon?

but night warriors - and we know what magic night warriors wield, they wield arcane and void, and their source is not the Well of Eternity - it's the stars, moon. We also k now Moonguard were involved, and generals like Spellblade Aluriel you fight in the Nighthold - if you actually listen to what she says .

I did listen what she said. It says there was only one other time where the ritual was finished.

However i do admit that the last stance of Tyrande is ambiguous because it does implies the existence of Night Warriors in the plural. There is nothing else in the video.

I say these thigs because the lore shows them, but it's clear not many people are aware, and often ignore, so I'm happy to help set the record straight.

And has always, stuff has to resume around what you like, and you obviously biased to magic to the point you actually ignore other people's likes/wishes.

[Mace]

I thought that was the point of your ... Other thread, looks like you got more then one thread to do your job.

Forgot this was not that thread because the subject matter overlapped and I was multi-tasking. Thanks for the correction, yes, I recommend the other thread.

I know and understand that quite well...

The bolded part say's it all, can you even understand what you wrote?? No? They have always been a minority, because the large portion of the Kaldorei didn't used arcane magic at all... From those that didn't used magic, and that don't descend from Highborne, came the NElf's we currently play.

Yes, Highborne has been a minority, not arcane capability, or arcane aptitude. They were the best of the best SHE could find, not the only ones and not limited to them. ALl night elves have an arcane affinity and aptitutude. The Highborne were a caste of elites at it, highly trained, not the only ones.

Yes, much of them are talented for arcane magic, which they choosed not to use. for over then 10k years.

You understand why right? and who? Only the Long Vigil group did that, the massive cities of Eldre'thalas and Suramar did not.. and of the ones who did, the reason was to prevent the Legion from discovering Azeroth still had it's Well and returning for it.

The why is important, it explains why night elves aren't hating other race arcane wielders at the final battle in WC3 and all through wow, and why that group allows it again.. Note it's not just the Shen'dralar that are using magic, it's other Darnassians who are are becoming Highborne through appointment by said Shen'drlar, those with the desire and talent for it are being trained - this is why the number grows. In fact with the exception of Mordant, we haven't specifically met any Shen'dralar mage since cata, that we know of, they've been Daranssian ones.

Yeah, so sorry about that... I thought the video i posted was patch 8.1.

We all make mistakes, no worries.

[

And obviously the Druids haven't donne anything, those sleepy bastards... But wait a minute, Malfurion in actually in the video.

Two different timelines, when they first conquered Kalimdor, nature users would not have been able to compete with the Night warriors or Moonguard and Highborne wielding night elves like they do now. Secondly, these guys really only engage in battle in defence of the forest, so if the troll tribes were burning the forest and destroy it, they'd engage, I don't think they'd take the fight to the aggressors .

Malfurion wasn't a druid then, if he was alive during that period he'd either have been very young or a regular night elf, able to cast some spells - WotLK does present him as very smart. He comes a druid during the War of the Ancients and its his advancement of the field that elevates to a level that can be called a class. This is why he is the first druid, and all the other nature type users before, whether night elven or tauren weren't actually druids, although for lack of a better term, we use druids - they were proto-druids or pre-druids.

The sleeping rituals the druid do came in the Long Vigil - they happen as part of the pact the class makes with the dream flight, they spend millennia in the dream helping the green flight guide Azeroth's dream into reality - I understand this as getting like the blue pritns as to how nature should grow. Azeroth herself controls the spread of nature, the dream is the construct Freya creates (possessed by Eonar's spirit) that makes Azeroth's dream into a plane that can be visited - it's Azeroth that determine nature, she doesn't control sentient beings, this si why the dream is how Azeroth is without any civilization, it's how she would grow nature. The flight and druids help guide that dream (presumably their are sometimes issues) and they use the blueprint in the dream to determine how to grow, heal and restore forests in the waking world where interreference from external forces like demonic corruption, plaguelands have wiped it out in the natural world, but it is in its original form in the dream.

Val'Sharah zone is the place on Azeroth that most closely matches its version in the Emerald dream - it's basically the purest nature paradise because the druids have shaped it exactly like it is in the dream.

Anyway, this is how I understand it to work using the information they've given.

[Nothing about arcane here - because it wasn't relevant.]

I wonder, again, why has to be everithing to resume about magic with you and Ravenmoon?

I explain why I do it in the other topic, but it's largely for there, it's just that its concerning the arcane that most people make errors about the night elves, so when I see I respond, sometimes I get messages from friends pointing out areas that are discussed and join in the conversation there. You don't see people talking much about druidism, and when they do, not much is wrong..however if they say night elves are savage - that's incorrect, and I would respond to that with clarification, and wouldn't mention anything about magic.

I know a significant amount of info on Night elves, which is why I can confidently correct wrong info and assumptions, but I'm human and I sometimes make mistakes or am wrong, and if people point that out to me, and can prove it I off course admit it, because I want the truth about the situation, I don't want people's assumptions or mine - ofc this excludes when part of the conversation veers off into a prediction of the future or an interpretation of the past, then it naturally implies some assumption when trying to flesh it out, but I usually would use a term like "I assume" - funny thing is people don't seem to be able to read, or when they read, fail to understand because they completely ignore that and yell Headcanon - and I'm sitting behind my screen wondering - are they stupid or deficient? did they not see I said assume? or fail to understand the context my response was given?

Most people are pretty good though,like me, if they are called out on something they're wrong about, they accept and correct, if they're not sure they not sure, however a small tiny number are just very stubborn, even when they're wrong they have to be right, and they'll just argue for arguments sake. Those are the most exhausting, I tend to ignore them until they start writing sense again.

I did listen what she said. It says there was only one other time where the ritual was finished.

However i do admit that the last stance of Tyrande is ambiguous because it does implies the existence of Night Warriors in the plural. There is nothing else in the video.


And has always, stuff has to resume around what you like, and you obviously biased to magic to the point you actually ignore other people's likes/wishes.

I'm sure you listened just now, but there is information in the quest text too, and the books you click that provide essential detail.. in this instance, there is a section that mentions the Night Warrior used to conquer Kalimdor - which is why I responded to the other guy with the addition.

The other time the ritual was used was when they were conquering Kalimdor - and that was the key to their victory.

[Kithelle]

The trolls had magic to and quite powerful magic even as we discover in BFA. Also the trolls were numerous compared to what the night elfs got.



If they would not care there would not have been a Darkshore warfront and Tyrande would have accepted the peace with the Horde just like in Mist of Pandaria.

It's content for everyone to play....did actually gain anything out of it? No. Is Teldreassil still in flames and never coming back? Yes

The Night Elves have never really gained anything but keep losing more and more.

[Hellspawn]

It's content for everyone to play....did actually gain anything out of it? No. Is Teldreassil still in flames and never coming back? Yes

The Night Elves have never really gained anything but keep losing more and more.

No, why should Teldrassil come back? I want the story to go forwards not backwards.
The night elfs got story development out of this. How this will change the land that belongs to them we may or may not see in the future. This is probably the beginning of a new chapter for them. A story that was stale for most of the last 15 years.

[eurojust]

Well, she was already killed offscreen in WC3

No, never happened

[Ardenaso]

If they would not care there would not have been a Darkshore warfront and Tyrande would have accepted the peace with the Horde just like in Mist of Pandaria.

not even the bare minimum

[Beloren]

not even the bare minimum

It was an entire warfront, you can't say it wasn't even the bare minimum. I know Nelf/Alliance fans expect a whole lot more, but the warfront was a speicific development specific for the night elves, and they came across as powerful and badass. it may not be enough, by a long short, but it is well above the bare minimum.

[Manariel]

It was an entire warfront, you can't say it wasn't even the bare minimum. I know Nelf/Alliance fans expect a whole lot more, but the warfront was a speicific development specific for the night elves, and they came across as powerful and badass. it may not be enough, by a long short, but it is well above the bare minimum.

The Warfront was such a non-event that Kaldorei sacrificed their lives en masse in Nazmir and Tyrande, juiced up to something which seems set to kill her or significantly weaken her character in the future, failed to kill even one named Forsaken character, and had to be helped by Malfurion, Maiev and the PC to barely held her own against an old zombie and two Val'kyr, while failing to prevent the Horde from raising several Night Elves into the ranks of the Forsakens.

And Blizzard had to specify in a tweet who won the damn thing because Warfronts are meant to be even more eternal than BG in the "who can tell who's truly winning".

The Battle of Darkshore was an attempt at satysfying the NE players - and really all the Alliance Players fed up with the Anduin's side of the faction - but so hamfisted and terrible that it looks more like an insult that anything else.

[Hellspawn]

The Warfront was such a non-event that Kaldorei sacrificed their lives en masse in Nazmir and Tyrande, juiced up to something which seems set to kill her or significantly weaken her character in the future, failed to kill even one named Forsaken character, and had to be helped by Malfurion, Maiev and the PC to barely held her own against an old zombie and two Val'kyr, while failing to prevent the Horde from raising several Night Elves into the ranks of the Forsakens.

And Blizzard had to specify in a tweet who won the damn thing because Warfronts are meant to be even more eternal than BG in the "who can tell who's truly winning".

The Battle of Darkshore was an attempt at satysfying the NE players - and really all the Alliance Players fed up with the Anduin's side of the faction - but so hamfisted and terrible that it looks more like an insult that anything else.

Actually back on the 8.2 ptr there was a cinematic that showed that the night elf won. But that was removed before they released the patch. Warfronts are not good for story telling, just like Battlegrounds. I think the Darkshore was badly executed, the idea itself was fine. But even it was well executed, it can be just a start for a new developement for the night elfs... and I hope and think it is.