bubba Wallace noose was a garage door opener

[Zeth Hawkins]

It's only a "waste" if there was no possibility that it could have been a hate crime.

There was no possibility that it could have been a hate crime.

[Edge-]

There was no possibility that it could have been a hate crime.

NASCAR disagrees with you.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/na...ace/index.html

"To be clear, we would do this again. Of the evidence that we had, it was clear that we needed to look into this."

Statement from NASCAR president Steve Phelps.

[CalamityHeart]

I'm really glad I decided to educate myself further on this. I heard about the story in the background on TV, but didn't give it my fullest attention. "Oh god, a noose threat?" > "Oh god, the FBI said a noose wasn't a hate crime?" was my train of thought when I first read headlines.

It freaked me out a little bit at first. Knowing what I know now about the situation, I'm glad and relieved. It's refreshing to learn that in this current social climate, something that could have most certainly been a huge deal turned out to not.

Was it a knee-jerk reaction? It was a swift reaction, certainly. One that, in this case, is commendable, I think. Much more commendable than if they'd treated this issue tepidly. And it's not as though anyone's "time was wasted". This is the FBI's job. No investigator is grumbling about the fact that this odd noose-like rope turned out to not be a racist threat.

It was an unfortunate coincidence during an inopportune time. Someone thought there was a problem, and (hooray) there wasn't. I wish there weren't people who still want to try to make a problem out of this with their commentary.

[I Push Buttons]

There was no possibility that it could have been a hate crime.

Even when shit is confirmed to not be a hate crime, its still a hate crime to delusional fringe leftist.

Remember that case in Oakland about the 'nooses' hanging from a tree in a park?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...s-man-71314468

Victor Sengbe, who is black, told KGO-TV that the ropes were part of a rigging that he and his friends used as part of a larger swing system. He also shared video of the swing in use.

...

Schaaf said officials must “start with the assumption that these are hate crimes.” However, the mayor and Nicholas Williams, the city’s director of parks recreation, also said it didn’t matter whether the ropes were meant to send a racist message.

“Intentions don’t matter when it comes to terrorizing the public,” Schaaf said. “It is incumbent on all of us to know the actual history of racial violence, of terrorism, that a noose represents and that we as a city must remove these terrorizing symbols from the public view.”

“The symbolism of the rope hanging in the tree is malicious regardless of intent. It’s evil, and it symbolizes hatred,” Williams said.

[Fencers]

Initially, the evidence warranted investigation. So it was so, and they found out what it actually was. Isn't that praiseworthy?

Not really seeing how this could be seen as a negative. The contra would be, "It was a noose and a racist person did this intentionally."

Which seems like a terrible thing to be right about.

[Yuujin]

Even when shit is confirmed to not be a hate crime, its still a hate crime to delusional fringe leftist.

Remember that case in Oakland about the 'nooses' hanging from a tree in a park?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...s-man-71314468

“We remind and ask our community to be mindful when using this equipment in a recreational manner. These acts may send an unintended message,” the police statement said. “We recognize especially at this time, that any ropes on or attached to trees, limbs or other objects can be associated with hate crimes and racial violence.”

At least the police in the article you linked have more sense than you.

[I Push Buttons]

Initially, the evidence warranted investigation. So it was so, and they found out what it actually was. Isn't that praiseworthy?

Not really seeing how this could be seen as a negative. The contra would be, "It was a noose and a racist person did this intentionally."

Which seems like a terrible thing to be right about.

Because the second part of your statement in bold there is happening.

Instead of Wallace shrugging and going "I'm glad they got to the bottom of this, thank goodness it wasn't a hate crime", he is being incredulous and going on about how "it was a straight up noose" and how its racist even if its been there a long time and wasn't directed at him.

[Endus]

There was no possibility that it could have been a hate crime.

Wrong. Just objectively false.

It turned out that it wasn't, due to the investigation, but absolutely could have been intended that way. The investigation was necessary to determine this.

Your position is like arguing that the millions spent in Y2K prep were "wasted" because "nothing bad happened", or who think preventative medicine like vaccination is a waste of time and resources.

NASCAR disagrees with you.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/us/na...ace/index.html

The FBI implicitly do as well, since they had no issues investigating the incident and did not treat it as a false accusation.

[Egomaniac]

I honestly understand both sides of this but my take on it is the world is losing its mind.

When they found a noose, I thought it was a chunky lynching noose that could leave no room for ambiguity, not a piece of string tied off in a loop.

Keep defending this insane over-reaction. I can't see how a reasonable person could objectively look at that and think "racism / noose".

This is like a hypochondriac crying wolf 6 times a day, it actually diminishes the attention legitimate claims will be given.

You start with:

I honestly understand both sides of this

but then

Keep defending this insane over-reaction. I can't see how a reasonable person could objectively look at that and think "racism / noose".

So which is it? Because those two statements are incompatible.

[Endus]

Because the second part of your statement in bold there is happening.

Instead of Wallace shrugging and going "I'm glad they got to the bottom of this, thank goodness it wasn't a hate crime", he is being incredulous and going on about how "it was a straight up noose" and how its racist even if its been there a long time and wasn't directed at him.

The FBI weren't investigating to determine if the noose was created as an expression of racism. They were investigating whether it was a targeted threat against Wallace himself, as a person.

That turned out to be false. I can't really think of why anyone would legitimately make a garage pull that looks like a noose, though. Illegitimate reasons crop up, but those are mostly racist.

It's like trying to argue that burning a cross isn't a racist statement in the South if you're burning it on your own property. Yeah, no, that's not how anything works.

There's still the very clear possibility that the prior crew were a bunch of confederacy-lovin' good-ole-boy racists who thought a noose was a funny in-joke about their shared hatred of black people. The FBI just wouldn't consider that a hate crime and wouldn't have any reason to be involved.

[Templar 331]

I can't really think of why anyone would legitimately make a garage pull that looks like a noose, though.

Having worked around rednecks and even more "challenged" people in welding shops for a good chunk of my life I can. More than likely it was someone who was bored and just tied a knot for the hell of it. Was it out of malice? Probably not. Does it serve a function? Not likely, but someone might have thought it would. I've worked with people who will jerry-rig something together for whatever reason thinking it will be an improvement while I'm standing there confused as hell how they thought that.

With that said though, there's still the possibility that the person who made the noose was just an asshole making a statement against black people. And I have worked alongside those people as well.....

[Aurgjelme]

The FBI weren't investigating to determine if the noose was created as an expression of racism. They were investigating whether it was a targeted threat against Wallace himself, as a person.

That turned out to be false. I can't really think of why anyone would legitimately make a garage pull that looks like a noose, though. Illegitimate reasons crop up, but those are mostly racist.

It's like trying to argue that burning a cross isn't a racist statement in the South if you're burning it on your own property. Yeah, no, that's not how anything works.

There's still the very clear possibility that the prior crew were a bunch of confederacy-lovin' good-ole-boy racists who thought a noose was a funny in-joke about their shared hatred of black people. The FBI just wouldn't consider that a hate crime and wouldn't have any reason to be involved.

I have three of these nooses myself. On the garage door for the car, and two gates at work. Because it easier to get a hold of the garage door, and a noose is a pretty strong knot.

heck, even boats have a noose like knot holding it many places, should we investigate if the confederates are secretly building up their forces here in the North as well?



Of course, you can always keep fantasizing about your white confederate lynching racist kept it there. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If anything, people who joke about suicide or have a morbid sense of humor can make nooses as a joke.

[Egomaniac]

Jussie Smollett 2.0, who would've thought.

Not even close to the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -

I have three of these nooses myself. On the garage door for the car, and two gates at work. Because it easier to get a hold of the garage door, and a noose is a pretty strong knot.

heck, even boats have a noose like knot holding it many places, should we investigate if the confederates are secretly building up their forces here in the North as well?


Of course, you can always keep fantasizing about your white confederate lynching racist kept it there. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If anything, people who joke about suicide or have a morbid sense of humor can make nooses as a joke.

Well, if the marina had just banned confederate flags a few days prior and the staff member for a black boat owner, who had led the charge for the ban, suddenly found something that appeared to be a noose on the boat...I would expect them to launch an investigation there as well. And hey, if it turns out that it was just a boat tie that resembled a noose that no one remembered ever being there...all good.

Stop ignoring the context of the situation. Confederate flags and nooses have an unpleasant connection.

The proper reaction here is "Well, I'm glad it wasn't a hate-crime"

[Aurgjelme]

Not even close to the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -



Well, if the marina had just banned confederate flags a few days prior and the staff member for a black boat owner, who had led the charge for the ban, suddenly found something that appeared to be a noose on the boat...I would expect them to launch an investigation there as well. And hey, if it turns out that it was just a boat tie that resembled a noose that no one remembered ever being there...all good.

Stop ignoring the context of the situation.

The proper reaction here is "Well, I'm glad it wasn't a hate-crime"

Yeah, we all are glad it wasn't. And I did not object to there being an investigation.
I'm not the one questioning the investigation either, there are others here who really REALLY want there to be a problem.

[Yuujin]

Hurr knot hav loop there4 same as noose.

Grasping. And you don't know shit about knots.

[Endus]

I have three of these nooses myself. On the garage door for the car, and two gates at work. Because it easier to get a hold of the garage door, and a noose is a pretty strong knot.

heck, even boats have a noose like knot holding it many places, should we investigate if the confederates are secretly building up their forces here in the North as well?

Dude, the image you linked is of an eye splice. That isn't anything like a noose.

And no; a noose is a terrible knot, for pretty much any purpose except hanging a person by the neck until dead. Its purpose is to be a slipknot that is resistant to being un-slipped without some effort. The kind of effort you can't produce while hanging from it and bouncing around, but could easily produce when pulling it off your dead victim's neck. If you want a knot that'll get tight and stay tight, there are knots for that; a constrictor knot is a lot better for that purpose.

And if you want to create a static loop for, say, a garage door pull, you wouldn't ever use a slipknot. It's either going to pinch your hand, or it'll slip down and undo itself because there's nothing in the loop. You'd use a doubled overhand knot or figure-eight, or if you know even a little knotwork, a bowline. If you want a permanent loop, you'd do an eye splice like you see in the boat pic you linked, but splices are arguably not even knots, properly, because a splice is intended to basically be permanent modification of the rope.

And none of those loop knots look a damned thing like a noose.

[Machismo]

I have three of these nooses myself. On the garage door for the car, and two gates at work. Because it easier to get a hold of the garage door, and a noose is a pretty strong knot.

heck, even boats have a noose like knot holding it many places, should we investigate if the confederates are secretly building up their forces here in the North as well?



Of course, you can always keep fantasizing about your white confederate lynching racist kept it there. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If anything, people who joke about suicide or have a morbid sense of humor can make nooses as a joke.

That's also not a noose, not even close. It's a manufactured loop on a rope that is literally braided together.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude, the image you linked is of an eye splice. That isn't anything like a noose.

And no; a noose is a terrible knot, for pretty much any purpose except hanging a person by the neck until dead. Its purpose is to be a slipknot that is resistant to being un-slipped without some effort. The kind of effort you can't produce while hanging from it and bouncing around, but could easily produce when pulling it off your dead victim's neck. If you want a knot that'll get tight and stay tight, there are knots for that; a constrictor knot is a lot better for that purpose.

And if you want to create a static loop for, say, a garage door pull, you wouldn't ever use a slipknot. It's either going to pinch your hand, or it'll slip down and undo itself because there's nothing in the loop. You'd use a doubled overhand knot or figure-eight, or if you know even a little knotwork, a bowline. If you want a permanent loop, you'd do an eye splice like you see in the boat pic you linked, but splices are arguably not even knots, properly, because a splice is intended to basically be permanent modification of the rope.

And none of those loop knots look a damned thing like a noose.

In the end, the knot in the garage may have well been a non-slip knot like a bowline, but with added wraps to allow for more grip.

[Endus]

Hurr knot hav loop there4 same as noose.

Grasping. And you don't know shit about knots.

Seriously, not only was I a Chief Scout (Canuck version of Eagle Scout), I worked at a heritage museum as "the rope guy", doing fancy ropework and such. It's a skill that's been only very rarely any use at all in the last 20 years of my life, so don't take this as me bragging; this is just one particular small thing I know a fair bit about.

A noose has a strongly-wrapped knot section above the loop. That's pretty much unique to the noose, specifically; those coils produce extra friction to make it a little more difficult to undo (but still easily done by hand). It also helps create the "snap" effect when the victim is dropped, because it tends to hold the line a foot or so back from the neck. Those features are basically useless for any other purpose, and render the not a worse option than nearly anything else.

A splice is not a noose.
A bowline is not a noose.
A normal slipknot is not a noose.

And everyone's been clear that the knot on the garage pull was a noose. You can clearly see it in photos.

[Fencers]

Instead of Wallace shrugging and going "I'm glad they got to the bottom of this, thank goodness it wasn't a hate crime", he is being incredulous and going on about how "it was a straight up noose" and how its racist even if its been there a long time and wasn't directed at him.

Thats not totally accurate to what he said. And he isn't necessarily wrong, he specifically said the evidence he had.

If you want to say you disagree with Wallace on the frequency with which people create noose of that sort to use as garage pulls that is fine. But we would need to see some measure of how many garage pulls are tied in that manner.

[Deja Thoris]

You start with:


So which is it? Because those two statements are incompatible.

So I can't understand yet disagree, thanks for headsup. Very enlightening.