Should multiboxing be allowed?

[Thrif]

Let's see, should third party software that majorly impacts how the game is being played and arguably gives a big edge in pvp and pve be allowed?

Well no. Not really.

[Drusin]

Let's see, should third party software that majorly impacts how the game is being played and arguably gives a big edge in pvp and pve be allowed?

Where's the pve edge?

[RoKPaNda]

The same argument can be made about bots. You can do things manually, or you can streamline the process and create a bot.

oh and It's fine to not like it, totally fine actually, but after 15+ years in this game and several more years in MMOs in general it isn't going anywhere lol - even if its bannable.

Kinda need better arguments mate

No you absolutely cannot make the same argument for bots. Bots don't require interaction and the break the automation rule. Multiboxing doesn't. Every single action that you're doing while multiboxing is something that you're controlling and pressing buttons for. Botting and multiboxing are nothing alike. I think you thought you had a salient point there, but you didn't, your argument didn't make any sense. You're right that botting will always be there and that the game industry will always be playing catchup with botting, but yeah that's bannable. Multiboxing isn't. Multiboxing isn't against the rules no matter how much people who don't understand multiboxing want it to be.

[lappee]

No you absolutely cannot make the same argument for bots. Bots don't require interaction and the break the automation rule. Multiboxing doesn't. Every single action that you're doing while multiboxing is something that you're controlling and pressing buttons for. Botting and multiboxing are nothing alike. I think you thought you had a salient point there, but you didn't, your argument didn't make any sense. You're right that botting will always be there and that the game industry will always be playing catchup with botting, but yeah that's bannable. Multiboxing isn't. Multiboxing isn't against the rules no matter how much people who don't understand multiboxing want it to be.

But you can make the same argument, it was made and you didn't counter it. Here, try again. You can do things manually, or you can streamline the process and create a bot. See, it fits!

Multiboxin doesn't break the rules that Blizzard has yet (atleast on wide enough scale that they would specify the rules further), that is pretty much the only part of your post that is correct. Other bits, such as the every action part, is not if you're using a multiboxing program because then your one action actually does X actions (X = number of clients). There are plenty of things that are alike with Botting and Multiboxing, such as increased gains when herbing and faster gold / xp / whatever you want (when measured in time actually played)

[kaminaris]

But you can make the same argument, it was made and you didn't counter it. Here, try again. You can do things manually, or you can streamline the process and create a bot. See, it fits!

Multiboxin doesn't break the rules that Blizzard has yet (atleast on wide enough scale that they would specify the rules further), that is pretty much the only part of your post that is correct. Other bits, such as the every action part, is not if you're using a multiboxing program because then your one action actually does X actions (X = number of clients). There are plenty of things that are alike with Botting and Multiboxing, such as increased gains when herbing and faster gold / xp / whatever you want (when measured in time actually played)

There is no such rule as actions per keypress. What isn't allowed is: making action without any keypress. And more actions than one with a single keypress per client.

[lappee]

There is no such rule as actions per keypress. What isn't allowed is: making action without any keypress. And more actions than one with a single keypress per client.

I know, thats what I've said. But thanks for understanding it too!

[RoKPaNda]

But you can make the same argument, it was made and you didn't counter it. Here, try again. You can do things manually, or you can streamline the process and create a bot. See, it fits!

Multiboxin doesn't break the rules that Blizzard has yet (atleast on wide enough scale that they would specify the rules further), that is pretty much the only part of your post that is correct. Other bits, such as the every action part, is not if you're using a multiboxing program because then your one action actually does X actions (X = number of clients). There are plenty of things that are alike with Botting and Multiboxing, such as increased gains when herbing and faster gold / xp / whatever you want (when measured in time actually played)

I'm not sure you know what you're even trying to argue, but whatever it is you're not making a coherent argument here. Botting is quite clearly against the rules. You're either botting or you're not. There's no grey area there. Botting is automation. Multiboxing is never breaking the 1 press = 1 action rule. It doesn't matter if it's 1 client or 80 clients it's still 1 action per client per press. You could do the same thing with a purely hardware solution. If you don't like it take it up with Blizzard who have been fine with it for 15+ years now, or any other MMO dev that's been fine with it since the beginning of MMOs. Conflating botting with multiboxing shows a massive misunderstanding of both.

[lappee]

I'm not sure you know what you're even trying to argue, but whatever it is you're not making a coherent argument here. Botting is quite clearly against the rules. You're either botting or you're not. There's no grey area there. Botting is automation. Multiboxing is never breaking the 1 press = 1 action rule. It doesn't matter if it's 1 client or 80 clients it's still 1 action per client per press. You could do the same thing with a purely hardware solution. If you don't like it take it up with Blizzard who have been fine with it for 15+ years now, or any other MMO dev that's been fine with it since the beginning of MMOs. Conflating botting with multiboxing shows a massive misunderstanding of both.

The biggest difference between Multiboxing and Botting is that word "automation" (aka continuous action with just starting a program), however one can make a very bot-like setup that will behave in similar way - you just need clever enough input, since thanks to multiboxing it is allowed to send inputs through programs as long as you actually do the action yourself.
And that is where a problem can (and probably will) arise in the future.

Then there are all the economy aspects that multiboxing is ruining, the very same way botting does (and which is one of the reasons why botting is prohibited), though there are solutions (explained multiple times in this thread) to this particular problem that Blizzard can implement.

Whenever you're using a multiboxing program that sends keystrokes to multiple clients you ARE breaking the "1 press = 1 action" rule, which is a very different rule to "1 input per action per account"
And yes, you could do the same with purely hardware solution by buying X amount of PC's to run the X amount of clients. How many would though?

Oh and yes, the great "don't like it, go to Blizzard" argument. Hey, I got an idea - Why don't you stop reading topics that ask for peoples opinions!

[Seranthor]

Oh and yes, the great "don't like it, go to Blizzard" argument. Hey, I got an idea - Why don't you stop reading topics that ask for peoples opinions!

Maybe stop flipping out when people dare have an opinion that doesn't agree with your opinion. OP asked for opinions, he didn't say 'I only want opinions that agree with me'. Even if you manage to convert every single MMOC poster to your opinion, its still not going to get you to where you want to go.

[Cyranis]

Whenever you're using a multiboxing program that sends keystrokes to multiple clients you ARE breaking the "1 press = 1 action" rule, which is a very different rule to "1 input per action per account"

Blizzard has stated numerous times that they do not consider broadcasting a keypress to multiple clients to be automation, nor is it against the rules. On the contrary they repeatedly defended the practice.

[Sansnom]

No, paying money to get an edge shouldn't be allowed

Yet we are living in a capitalism system. Well, I assume you are.

[Zka]

Has anything changed about multiboxing? It has been a thing since release. I see a boxer like once a year and it's never a problem. Why does it suddenly get so much attention now?

[Drusin]

Has anything changed about multiboxing? It has been a thing since release. I see a boxer like once a year and it's never a problem. Why does it suddenly get so much attention now?

Because people have nothing else to focus on lol. $20 says everyone goes on to QQ about something new when SL is closer to launching.

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Going around for cheap frills from being a asshole that is not even benefiting their own faction is the kind of stuff I don't feel Blizzard let alone the multi-boxer community should not be condoning.

Sounds like max level warmode ganking lol

[lappee]

Maybe stop flipping out when people dare have an opinion that doesn't agree with your opinion. OP asked for opinions, he didn't say 'I only want opinions that agree with me'. Even if you manage to convert every single MMOC poster to your opinion, its still not going to get you to where you want to go.

So let me get this straight, if I ask him not to use "Don't whine here, go to Blizzard" argument that makes me the one that "flips out" about other peoples opinions? Yeah, there is no logic there - at all.

I have actually been answering just fine, and only "flip outs" would be where I just ignore people when they claim things like "economically the following two scenarios are the same "out of a million people 1 has 1 million gold and the rest have nothing" and "out of a million people, everyone has 1 gold" because there is a total of million gold in the economy"
Which, to me, just means that it's not worth answering to

[Cyranis]

So let me get this straight, if I ask him not to use "Don't whine here, go to Blizzard" argument that makes me the one that "flips out" about other peoples opinions? Yeah, there is no logic there - at all.

I have actually been answering just fine, and only "flip outs" would be where I just ignore people when they claim things like "economically the following two scenarios are the same "out of a million people 1 has 1 million gold and the rest have nothing" and "out of a million people, everyone has 1 gold" because there is a total of million gold in the economy"
Which, to me, just means that it's not worth answering to

Probably because you seem to be obsessed with petty gotcha semantic arguments. If you want to say that you don't like that multiboxers have more market strength than you, then just say it. Does it do it for you to get people to jump through hoops just to satisfy your ego while gatekeeping what we can post in this thread and cant?

[Seranthor]

So let me get this straight, if I ask him not to use "Don't whine here, go to Blizzard" argument that makes me the one that "flips out" about other peoples opinions? Yeah, there is no logic there - at all.

I have actually been answering just fine, and only "flip outs" would be where I just ignore people when they claim things like "economically the following two scenarios are the same "out of a million people 1 has 1 million gold and the rest have nothing" and "out of a million people, everyone has 1 gold" because there is a total of million gold in the economy"
Which, to me, just means that it's not worth answering to

There has been plenty of hyperbole on both sides of this, and its been eminently clear since page one that there are people that dont understand, dont want to understand and just want to dig in on their side of the argument. No minds are being changed in this 'discussion'. Multiboxing is here to stay and nothing said in this thread will change it.

[Coldkil]

Has anything changed about multiboxing? It has been a thing since release. I see a boxer like once a year and it's never a problem. Why does it suddenly get so much attention now?

Honestly not my exoperience. There are an awful lot of them, especially in the farm zones. I know it's a grey area, it doesn't mean someone is botting, but it destroiys the economy and makes farming materials shit for the rest of the players as nodes despawn istantly.

Simple solution: put an internal cd of like 1.5s on the nodes so you cannot loot them in multiple people. For normal players it doesn't mean nothing as the first click doesn't work, the second does. A multiboxer with 10 characters would that 15 seconds for a single node, effectively killing the method.

EDIT: i perfectly know nothing will change since it's more money for Blizzard.

[lappee]

There has been plenty of hyperbole on both sides of this, and its been eminently clear since page one that there are people that dont understand, dont want to understand and just want to dig in on their side of the argument. No minds are being changed in this 'discussion'. Multiboxing is here to stay and nothing said in this thread will change it.

Probably, but it still has a better chance of changing it than by not talking about it at all.

After all, most people (me included) don't seemingly want to remove Multiboxing from those that do it for fun but rather want the game to change so that Multiboxing doesn't ruin the economy the same way as Botting does. This means a change in things like how gathering nodes and personal loot work in the open world - and really the only people who have been opposing that are the people using it, just like botters are defending botting.

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Honestly not my exoperience. There are an awful lot of them, especially in the farm zones. I know it's a grey area, it doesn't mean someone is botting, but it destroiys the economy and makes farming materials shit for the rest of the players as nodes despawn istantly.

Simple solution: put an internal cd of like 1.5s on the nodes so you cannot loot them in multiple people. For normal players it doesn't mean nothing as the first click doesn't work, the second does. A multiboxer with 10 characters would that 15 seconds for a single node, effectively killing the method.

EDIT: i perfectly know nothing will change since it's more money for Blizzard.

Better solution is to have all nodes be personal (as in they spawn in different places for each person and can only be seen / picked up by that person). Sure Multiboxer could get lucky every now and then by having nodes spawn at the same position on multiple accounts (unless theres only very few spawn points) but it would effectively cut profits of the method while having close to zero effect on normal players.

[Coldkil]

Better solution is to have all nodes be personal (as in they spawn in different places for each person and can only be seen / picked up by that person). Sure Multiboxer could get lucky every now and then by having nodes spawn at the same position on multiple accounts (unless theres only very few spawn points) but it would effectively cut profits of the method while having close to zero effect on normal players.

Still makes multiboxing worth because you get more nodes overall than a standard person, but agree that it would reduce a lot the difference. Also for every node looted with a character you have all the others basically stand still soing nothing. Right now is literally X multiplied by the number of characters.

[Dalinos]

Haven't read the whole thread (just the first 12 pages), but Mulitboxers can go DIAF. The mental gymnastics of "Waa waa it's not automation I'm pressing ONE button!" (that is then being copied & broadcast AUTOMATICALLY BY 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE on FOUR OTHER INSTANCES OF THE GAME) has to be Olympic level, at the very very least.

Just to show Blizzard inconsistencies, I will leave this little gem here. Around MOP-WOD, there was an addon that Randomized your Titles. Makes sense, right? By MOP, anyone who did a decent amount of achievement hunting had over 30 titles. I had around 40-50 at the time. So, what this addon did, was that it simply changed your title, randomly, every time you zoned anywhere and got through the loading screen. A fun, inconsequential addon that just added a tiny bit of fun flavour. Much like the addon that randomized your mount.

Well guess what Mummy Blizzard did. They BANNED that inconsequential addon, that did NOTHING ELSE but change your goddamn TITLE, due to it being considered "automation". The idea was that, since the action was done AUTOMATICALLY BY THE ADDON, and not by the player opening his Char screen > titles > scroll down to find your title > click to equip, the action was considered automation. I will not dig up the blue post, anyone that wants to fact-check me is more than welcome, but I remember it vividly.

And just to add insult to injury, in Legion, they added the "Summon random favourite mount" button, in the default blizz UI, basicly absorbing the Random Mount addon. The levels of hypocricy are disgusting some times. Random mount summoning is all fine and dandy, but random title switching when zoning was not.