Baldurs Gate 3

[Cairhiin]

If your playing without a DM and GM then its not D&D, your just playing a game that does everything for you.

having D&D elements is not the same as being an actual D&D game, its just using the ruleset but it can never be a true version of it.

Playing on your own without any other interaction is not D&D

This is just more nonsense, the engine obviously plays the role of the DM. Furthermore, DOS 2 had a game master mode, so I am pretty sure that BG3 will have a DM mode; there you go now it's D&D according to your odd rules.

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The last few pages of this thread read like crazy town.

How did the discussion about 'turn based or not' even get off the ground? D&D has always only ever used turn based combat, right? "Roll for initiative!" I don't even...

I find this whole discussion somewhat baffling but I guess I see the point that many people try to make about BG2/BG1/DoS1 & 2/PoE1&2/ToEE/etc., it's a very niche genre and I guess more people would be into it if it wouldn't be an isometric crpg. Problem is, it was always going to be just that; anything else and it can't be called BG3 (I know this will derail everything again into: it really shouldn't be called BG3 anyway). If people want a more action oriented game they should look into the upcoming Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance.

EDIT: Also the same goes for turned based for RTwP. D&D is inherently turn based. Recent RTwP games like PoE2 and I think even Pathfinder: Kingmaker added turn based later on popular demand. RTwP is even more niche at the moment. I am fine with both systems, I don't really have a preference, but as you say, turn based just makes more sense from a D&D point of view.

[DemonDays]

Says the guy who keeps pulling "facts" out of his ass. Still waiting for that proof, that majority of the player base doesn't like turn-based.

Are you actually going to try and deny they re-used assets?

They obviously fucking re-used assets. They re-used the entire engine.

[KrayZ33]

Are you actually going to try and deny they re-used assets?

They obviously fucking re-used assets. They re-used the entire engine.

Check what was said and answered.
No one denied that.

If your playing without a DM and GM then its not D&D, your just playing a game that does everything for you.



having D&D elements is not the same as being an actual D&D game, its just using the ruleset but it can never be a true version of it.

??????
So a human using the same ruleset is different from AI using it?
You do understand that there are solo-scenarios where you play alone in D&D/The Dark Eye and other pen&paper games - yes?
You just choose what you do in these scenarios and the prewritten scenario tells you at which page you have to continue your adventure (H-hey, t-that's almost like a video game?). So these aren't pen&paper or D&D adventures then?



A really weird train of thought you got there buddy!

[Makabreska]

Are you actually going to try and deny they re-used assets?

They obviously fucking re-used assets. They re-used the entire engine.

And I was never talking about assets, I was talking about dumb assumptions, that TB is not popular.

[NineSpine]

Are you actually going to try and deny they re-used assets?

They obviously fucking re-used assets. They re-used the entire engine.

An engine isn’t an asset. Tons of games use the Unreal Engine. Are they all the same?

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BG3 is not even a true D&D game just has a few elements of it and the rest is handled in the background.

Turn based combat in a RPG is for a niche playerbase, so its basically cutting off a massive potential playerbase not having real time combat also in the game.

DOSII was the ninth most profitable PC game the year it came out. You are completely delusional for continuing to insist that this represents a niche market.

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And where is your proof they didnt reuse assets, we can clearly see assets very similar in the BG3 presentation to DOS2.

Like what?

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Using GTA5 doesnt help your point infact it goes against it even more since that game has an insane playerbase and they will sell that game again when the PS5 is released.

Point is BG3 while it will be successful enough could do better if it had systems the majoirty of gamers enjoy more, your just arguing against the game getting even more players and money to make the game even better, and an extra combat model wouldnt change anything for those wanting to still use turn based combat.

A completely separate combat mode would add massive amounts of development time and cost. You are acting like it’s free, like they flip a switch and “tada now we have two combat modes!”

Your argument is as dumb as saying “Star Wars is more popular than d&d so this should be a Star Wars game instead.”

[Makabreska]

Kenn, why are you even here? Larian knows what are their strengths, they know what kind of a game they can make and they know the gaming market. They decided to make a TB game, because of their experience and source material. They accepted a POTENTIAL loss of revenue becuase of that. So why are you here trying to convince everyone, that they should instead go for max profit and compromise their product?

[AeneasBK]

I find this whole discussion somewhat baffling ...

On an unrelated note then, without too many spoilers, I understand the game is set generations (human ones at least) after Throne of Bhaal but do you know - has Edwin Odesseiron managed to cheat death and will he be making an appearance? ;D

[Makabreska]

On an unrelated note then, without too many spoilers, I understand the game is set generations (human ones at least) after Throne of Bhaal but do you know - has Edwin Odesseiron managed to cheat death and will he be making an appearance? ;D

He better. No one can call you an ape like Edwin!

[NineSpine]

Kenn, why are you even here? Larian knows what are their strengths, they know what kind of a game they can make and they know the gaming market. They decided to make a TB game, because of their experience and source material. They accepted a POTENTIAL loss of revenue becuase of that. So why are you here trying to convince everyone, that they should instead go for max profit and compromise their product?

Cmon, we all know that cynical trend-chasing has led to so many amazing games...

[Cairhiin]

On an unrelated note then, without too many spoilers, I understand the game is set generations (human ones at least) after Throne of Bhaal but do you know - has Edwin Odesseiron managed to cheat death and will he be making an appearance? ;D

I am not entirely certain but it is a possibility. He was well on his way to becoming a Lich. The problem however is his ending in Throne of Bhaal:

Edwin gained great renown in his travels with [charname], and in the years following their association he would exploit that infamy. In time he achieved enough influence to subjugate even the Red Wizards themselves, becoming the greatest leader they had known in recent memory. Very recent memory, it turns out, as he was deposed scant days later. Such is the brief nature of conquerors in Thay, practically lining up for their turn in power.

His only notable appearance following this embarrassment was in battle with Elminster of Shadowdale himself, a short affair that saw the end of Edwin's existence in the Realms. Edwina, however, tends bar in a Waterdeep tavern. She is a bitter, bitter woman.

Some retconning might be in order.

[NineSpine]

I am not entirely certain but it is a possibility. He was well on his way to becoming a Lich. The problem however is his ending in Throne of Bhaal:



Some retconning might be in order.

“Existence in the realms” is not “existence”.

[AeneasBK]

Some retconning might be in order.

Teehee, I'd forgotten about that

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“Existence in the realms” is not “existence”.

Well.. no, it's pretty clearly implied he still exists as Edwina the barkeep. . . (?)

[NineSpine]

Teehee, I'd forgotten about that

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Well.. no, it's pretty clearly implied he still exists as Edwina the barkeep. . . (?)

Hey.... shut up....

[Makabreska]

Some retconning might be in order.

No retconning is needed, when magic is involved. Just turn him back to his normal self by w/e means/reasons. Edwin, Minsc and Jan are characters I would love to see in BG3. Actually, also Sarevok. He really grew on me in ToB. They gave him much needed extra character and nuance.

[Cairhiin]

“Existence in the realms” is not “existence”.

No cause clearly he is Edwina now.

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No retconning is needed, when magic is involved. Just turn him back to his normal self by w/e means/reasons. Edwin, Minsc and Jan are characters I would love to see in BG3. Actually, also Sarevok. He really grew on me in ToB. They gave him much needed extra character and nuance.

Ye, this is possible. I mean anything is really possible. Retconning would indeed not necessarily be needed. There are plenty of possibilities to get his mind back to what he should be doing: pursuing Lichdom and calling everyone simians.

EDIT: Also, the events of BG2: ToB transpire in 1369 DR. The spellplague happened in 1385 DR (?), Edwina would technically only have had to wait 16 years for Elminster to lose most of his powers as a result of Mystra's death.

[AeneasBK]

hey.... Shut up....

: D

[NineSpine]

I don’t know why you guys are so obsessed with this character. I mean, Darth Vader is way more popular so they should put him in the game instead. Ignoring a character so many gamers love is leaving money on the table.

[Makabreska]

EDIT: Also, the events of BG2: ToB transpire in 1369 DR. The spellplague happened in 1385 DR (?), Edwina would technically only have had to wait 16 years for Elminster to lose most of his powers as a result of Mystra's death.

Damn, got things mixed up and thought for a sec that Spellplague was when gods got exiled to Faerun. But didn't we get two of these magic market crash incidents?

[NineSpine]

BG3 is likely taking place sometime around 1500.

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Damn, got things mixed up and thought for a sec that Spellplague was when gods got exiled to Faerun. But didn't we get two of these magic market crash incidents?

The spellplague was a consequence of it, it’s all part of the same series of events.

[kenn9530]

snip

The game sold around 1 million thats a niche market.

They already have much of whats needed already inplace to toggle turn based combat off, players can already move around and cast spells out of combat without needing turns and AI already act on thier own.

So a human using the same ruleset is different from AI using it?
You do understand that there are solo-scenarios where you play alone in D&D/The Dark Eye and other pen&paper games - yes?
You just choose what you do in these scenarios and the prewritten scenario tells you at which page you have to continue your adventure (H-hey, t-that's almost like a video game?). So these aren't pen&paper or D&D adventures then?



A really weird train of thought you got there buddy!

A video game is never going to be a true D&D representation no matter what you think.