Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Easo]

While it’s fair to say the random nazi solider on the front line wasn’t evil could you say the same for the members of the SS or camp workers? The police don’t have a warfront where people can stay ignorants of the going ons back home. They would be the Ss members finding Jews or the camp members guarding prisoners there’s no realistic way they could miss all the wrong doings so that would leave them with the same choice some actual good nazi’s took put them selfs at risk and try and do some good or turn a blind eye and “just follow orders”.

Police have people like coroners, IT specialists, people gathering evidence on the crime scenes, someone responsible for archives, etc. So actually yes, police do have "frontline" and people back at HQ. For camp workers and especially SS (as we know a lot of of those were actual fanatics) yes, almost all of them had to be aware of at least something of what was going on. But dear Endus is pretty clear that he considers ALL of them evil.

"Following orders" is an interesting thing. But that really is a separate discussion.

This really depends on your level of ignorance. If you see all the abuses and how they are covered up/ignored by other officers and think it’s no issue then ya your evil.

Then are you too suggesting that all 18k of police departments in USA are corrupt and thus basically the whole force of one million are guilty to various degrees?

[Endus]

Then are you too suggesting that all 18k of police departments in USA are corrupt and thus basically the whole force of one million are guilty to various degrees?

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Nazi was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of the Reich?"

Same terrible argument that you're using, dude.

[Easo]

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Nazi was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of the Reich?"

Same terrible argument that you're using, dude.

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Commie was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of USSR?"

How nice of you to ignore the last 1-2 pages.

Coroners archivist and evidence collectors would all still be without in realm of camp workers not the random soldiers unaware. These would be the people archiving abuses and ignoring them or looking at the body’s of victims and trying to Find any thing they can To write off a death by chocking as a heart attack because of drugs or the like, planting drugs or ignoring evidence at scenes that put the cops in a worse light. To go back to the camp analogy just because they are doing the record keeping or logistics instead of feeding people into ovens doesn’t clear them or blame.

Ya they are absolutely guilty to various degrees the cops who aren’t don’t tend to stay cops for long as they are branded as rats for not turning a blind eye.

Ok then. *adds another poster to the list of extremists/people living in the shiny and simple lalala all is black/white world*

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Police have people like coroners, IT specialists, people gathering evidence on the crime scenes, someone responsible for archives, etc. So actually yes, police do have "frontline" and people back at HQ. For camp workers and especially SS (as we know a lot of of those were actual fanatics) yes, almost all of them had to be aware of at least something of what was going on. But dear Endus is pretty clear that he considers ALL of them evil.

"Following orders" is an interesting thing. But that really is a separate discussion.

Coroners archivist and evidence collectors would all still be with in the realm of camp workers not the random soldiers unaware. These would be the people archiving abuses and ignoring them or looking at the body’s of victims and trying to Find any thing they can To write off a death by chocking as a heart attack because of drugs or the like, planting drugs or ignoring evidence at scenes that put the cops in a worse light. To go back to the camp analogy just because they are doing the record keeping or logistics instead of feeding people into ovens doesn’t clear them of blame.

Then are you too suggesting that all 18k of police departments in USA are corrupt and thus basically the whole force of one million are guilty to various degrees?

Ya they are absolutely guilty to various degrees the cops who aren’t don’t tend to stay cops for long as they are branded as rats for not turning a blind eye.

[Endus]

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Commie was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of USSR?"

How nice of you to ignore the last 1-2 pages.

If they were part of the Party? Yeah. They were.

Was that supposed to be a counter-argument?

[Easo]

If they were part of the Party? Yeah. They were.

Was that supposed to be a counter-argument?

If I did not know that you have been there for years I would seriously consider you a teenager with the usual maximalism complex.
You most definitely do not live in the real world.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"
Ok then. *adds another poster to the list of extremists/people living in the shiny and simple lalala all is black/white world*

Said world would be any first world country that has actual accountability and don’t ignore wide spread corruption.

[Easo]

Said world would be any first world country that has actual accountability and don’t ignore wide spread corruption.

So is USA first world country or not in your view? Because if you are gonna say no, then you gotta have some serious credentials to back that up.

[Endus]

If I did not know that you have been there for years I would seriously consider you a teenager with the usual maximalism complex.
You most definitely do not live in the real world.

For expecting a bare minimum of ethical standards and accountability for police officers?

That you consider that an extreme position is fucking ridiculous.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So is USA first world country or not in your view? Because if you are gonna say no, then you gotta have some serious credentials to back that up.

It’s a first world country even though it try’s it Hardest not to be.

[Easo]

For expecting a bare minimum of ethical standards and accountability for police officers?

That you consider that an extreme position is fucking ridiculous.

You compared them to Nazi's and you are blaming the whole force. Unless I misunderstood your wording veeeeeery badly yours is a true example of extremism.
Let's add the "disband the whole force" to the list too, because that is also extreme to the max without actually thinking about what such decision means.

It’s a first world country even though it try’s it Hardest not to be.

Interesting...

[kail]

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Nazi was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of the Reich?"

Same terrible argument that you're using, dude.

Nazis know what they signed up for. They know the leader and his goal. I sincerely doubt that even the majority of officers took the job to beat on minorities. As I asked another in this thread, are black police officers Uncle Tom's in your eyes if the entire force is racist against blacks?

[Hilhen7]

Nazis know what they signed up for. They know the leader and his goal. I sincerely doubt that even the majority of officers took the job to beat on minorities. As I asked another in this thread, are black police officers Uncle Tom's in your eyes if the entire force is racist against blacks?

Albert Einstein — ‘The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.

When other police officers allow and protect those that do wrong they become complicate.

[Endus]

You compared them to Nazi's and you are blaming the whole force. Unless I misunderstood your wording veeeeeery badly yours is a true example of extremism.

I did not compare them directly to Nazis. I made no equivalence. I said their membership in an organization was descriptive of their support of that organization's conduct and behaviour, in the same way that a Nazi shares blame for all the actions of the Reich, not just their own personal actions.

It was a point about how choice and belonging translates to sharing the blame for the organization you chose to belong to.

Let's add the "disband the whole force" to the list too, because that is also extreme to the max without actually thinking about what such decision means.

I'm not sure it can really be treated as particularly extreme when at least one city in the USA has done so with good results, and Minneapolis is beginning the process themselves.

This isn't a wild hypothetical. It's tested practice, which seems to work.

Nazis know what they signed up for. They know the leader and his goal. I sincerely doubt that even the majority of officers took the job to beat on minorities. As I asked another in this thread, are black police officers Uncle Tom's in your eyes if the entire force is racist against blacks?

Police in the USA first emerged as teams used to chase down and recapture escaping slaves.

This legacy has always been a major part of American policing. They have always been abusive, and used to beat down social progressive movements, including the Civil Rights Movement in the '50s and '60s.

As for the last sentence, to take it away from racially-charged language, aligning yourself with your abusers to try and belong to the "in-group" of abusers rather than the "out-group" of their victims is a concept that has a very long background in human history. You see it in battered wives who defend their husbands, you see it in bullied kids who become bullies themselves, and so on.

[Mayhem]

I'm curious... do you hold the same overall arguments for lawyers and judges? If you want to get to the true, deeply embedded racial disparities looking at the overarching national numbers, where they become starkly noticeable and beyond dispute isn't in policing but in the judiciary. Sentencing, bail, charges, the extent of parole, the prison convicts are sent to, time to appear before a judge, time served. Shall we blame Eschatological for prosecutors pushing harsher penalties for people in these communities, or public defenders pushing for immediate plea deals? It is the responsibility of a lawyer to report legal malpractice to the bar, after all. Should we designate it to be his responsibility to root out the many bad apples in the legal profession?

The case of Kalif Browder highlights that it's not just the police but the judiciary system, parole system, and all of it. I mean, how obvious it be? When you're asking the later questions and don't stop to think "wait a minute, on who's side am I here?" you need to think again.

The root of most of it these days is not just racism but also a quota system professions have to meet that makes no fucking sense.

[Egomaniac]

So basically blaming everyone in the force. An extremist viewpoint .

If they are doing these things... they are guilty
If they know about there things being and do nothing to stop them from happening...they are complicit
If they know nothing about these things...the are oblivious.

Once again, you show me the cops that are holding their colleagues accountable...I will pin that medal on their chest myself.

Like the one in the article Edge found. That found recordings of fellow officers talking about how their black colleagues should be shot, how a black judge should be shot, and how they just can't wait for a civil war to happen so they can go out and shoot blacks. She turned them in. That's your good cop.

Any cop doing less than that is not a "good cop"

[wunksta]

I'm curious... do you hold the same overall arguments for lawyers and judges? If you want to get to the true, deeply embedded racial disparities looking at the overarching national numbers, where they become starkly noticeable and beyond dispute isn't in policing but in the judiciary. Sentencing, bail, charges, the extent of parole, the prison convicts are sent to, time to appear before a judge, time served. Shall we blame Eschatological for prosecutors pushing harsher penalties for people in these communities, or public defenders pushing for immediate plea deals? It is the responsibility of a lawyer to report legal malpractice to the bar, after all. Should we designate it to be his responsibility to root out the many bad apples in the legal profession?

It's almost like the entire system has been designed over the last several decades to deliberately disenfranchise a certain demographic.

[Egomaniac]

Never did and sorry if you misunderstood. Cops knowing about local bad cops share their guilt. I'm simply not going to make a radical statement that every department across our country is corrupt.

I mean, you really did

The only point that I am making is that non-abusive/silent cops certainly exist. Too many are quick to lump them all in the same basket as racist, violent, or OK with the current situation.

This is you saying that we shouldn't throw silent cops in the same basket.

Again, I will say it. Staying silent means being complicit.

It's not enough to be "non-abusive". They have to be willing to report on their colleagues.

[Shadowferal]

"Are you seriously suggesting that every Nazi was a bad guy and complicit in the actions of the Reich?".

False equivalence.
you're calling everyone that trusts the police nazis...

Wow..you really have gone off the deep end. Again you're not even interested in having a convincing argument. Everyone thst doesn't agree with you = nazi.

[Yuujin]

False equivalence.
you're calling everyone that trusts the police nazis...

Wow..you really have gone off the deep end. Again you're not even interested in having a convincing argument. Everyone thst doesn't agree with you = nazi.

Lol. You gotta learn to read bro, and work on them comprehension skills.