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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It is kind of annoying that the alliance gets some major players to show up ... and the biggest Horde person is ... Lor'themar ... don't get me wrong, I want to see more love thrown his way, but it just seems weird.
    Lor'themar has been a leader in the Horde longer than anyone else, including Baine. He is one of, if not the biggest presence in the Horde at the moment.

    It only looks weird because he's the only one, with Baine absent, which says a lot more about the state of the Horde than it does about Lor'themar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    I think it's Rokhan. Though your point still stands because all his lore amounts to "He helped Rexxar and he is in the Arathi Highlands Warfront".
    I don't think he ever accepted any formal role or charge, he kinda appears whenever Blizzard feels like trolls aren't represented enough
    He's also in Zandalar quite often, especially in Nazmir, though even there he still comes across as a follower and not a leader.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Bolvar just turns back from being the Lich King to a highlord like that? Is there even anything left of his powers?
    I would guess that he picks up a new runeblade and will just be a powerful Death Knight kind of stage, not sure how much power he has left after the helmet got unequipped.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, new writing comes now and then. Both options for the Forsaken currently are both newly created, uncommon to the nature of the Forsaken and against their previous ruler. Calia believes she has a duty to fulfill while the Council just wants to be able to live among their own, and their relatives.
    How about Lilian Voss? Before BFA I'd have laughed at it, but think about it - she wasn't involved in any of the things people complain about the Forsaken for, she actually was there for them as a people in the most recent expansion and has a common frame of reference with them, but she also has the right aesthetic and can also engage in the black humour, Tim Burton aesthetic while softening them up for whatever shambles the Horde is supposed to be right now.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Jesus, the more I look at that picture, the more wrong I see - as @Rafoel says, the closest there is to a Horde character there who even visually fits the Horde is Rokhan and he has one of those leper player character models. The Horde has no orcs in it at all. Possibly because there's none left to put there.

    Except Green Jesus, but Sylvanas abducts him. Why she doesn't just kill all the abductees is beyond me. It's not like those left over wouldn't go into the Maw anyway to try and stop her, so even it being bait is a bit blase.
    But the picture accurately portrays the Horde player population. 50% elf(aka long ear human). But yeah, she should be strong enough to oneshot all of them. Especially if being within the Maw/shadowlands gives her an extra power boost on top of her jailer juice similar to what holy lands do to paladins.
    "Father, is it over? I see only darkness before me."

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    How about Lilian Voss? Before BFA I'd have laughed at it, but think about it - she isn't always chaotic evil, she actually was there for the Forsaken and has a common frame of reference with them, but she also has the right aesthetic and can also engage in the black humour aesthetic while softening them up for whatever shambles the Horde is supposed to be right now.
    Isn't that because of again, new writing? Could've sworn it was stated that she didn't wish to take charge? Or am I remembering that quest wrong where you meet Calia in Tirisfal.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  6. #26
    Voss SHOULD be the new Forsaken leader, but they clearly don't want to write (or model) an actual Important Forsaken.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Isn't that because of again, new writing? Could've sworn it was stated that she didn't wish to take charge? Or am I remembering that quest wrong where you meet Calia in Tirisfal.
    Oh, I'm aware of the plot reasoning, though even that is poor. I'm saying that from a thematic and visual standpoint edgy teenage/early twenties zombie assassin girl with a heart of gold fits as Forsaken leader a lot better than very pale holy looking human with ties to the Light. And storywise, 'leader who doesn't want the job reluctantly takes the helm' is as old as time for a reason.

    @Tripzzz

    True on the population count.

    I don't even mean power-wise all at once, not touching that with a ten foot pole though for my money Jaina and Tyrande should have decent chances against her even 1v1 and everyone Horde-side would get bodied immediately. I mean that I can't get what she gains out of taking them alive. I mean, if they die, they go to the Maw anyway, and wouldn't you know it, she opened a portal to that place that the protagonists have to go and stop if they don't want her achieving whatever her nebulous evil plan is. There's no benefit to keeping her captives alive.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Oh, I'm aware of the plot reasoning, though even that is poor. I'm saying that from a thematic and visual standpoint edgy teenage/early twenties zombie assassin girl with a heart of gold fits as Forsaken leader a lot better than very pale holy looking human with ties to the Light. And storywise, 'leader who doesn't want the job reluctantly takes the helm' is as old as time for a reason.
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved her story build-up and did think it would be her before Calia was brought out into the open again, as I had already guessed long ago that Sylvanas was going to screw over the Forsaken.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It is kind of annoying that the alliance gets some major players to show up ... and the biggest Horde person is ... Lor'themar ... don't get me wrong, I want to see more love thrown his way, but it just seems weird.
    Lor'themar is the last original leader of the horde since TBC blames blizzard for killing the other leaders or making them evil

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Oh, I'm aware of the plot reasoning, though even that is poor. I'm saying that from a thematic and visual standpoint edgy teenage/early twenties zombie assassin girl with a heart of gold fits as Forsaken leader a lot better than very pale holy looking human with ties to the Light. And storywise, 'leader who doesn't want the job reluctantly takes the helm' is as old as time for a reason.

    @Tripzzz

    True on the population count.

    I don't even mean power-wise all at once, not touching that with a ten foot pole though for my money Jaina and Tyrande should have decent chances against her even 1v1 and everyone Horde-side would get bodied immediately. I mean that I can't get what she gains out of taking them alive. I mean, if they die, they go to the Maw anyway, and wouldn't you know it, she opened a portal to that place that the protagonists have to go and stop if they don't want her achieving whatever her nebulous evil plan is. There's no benefit to keeping her captives alive.
    You just don't see the bigger picture. She plans to lock everyone up, so she can "free us all" just like she said she would. All part of her genius plan obviously.
    "Father, is it over? I see only darkness before me."

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved her story build-up and did think it would be her before Calia was brought out into the open again, as I had already guessed long ago that Sylvanas was going to screw over the Forsaken.
    Calia's leadership qualifications are nothing except coming out of the right vagina. This expansion, which is the one time where Sylvanas's actions have been a net negative to the Forsaken and you'd expect them to be building up Calia positively since they really, desperately want us to like her, she spends the entirety of the run time hanging around Kul Tiras and chilling, only to pop along at the very end and be given the job by default.

    Instead Voss gets all the major plot beats and build up and you even have her story go full circle from having to be helped integrate into the Forsaken to helping others go through that and becoming personally invested in a cause of her own volition instead of it being forced on her by outside powers, be it her father directly or the Forsaken through suggestion.

    @Tripzzz

    I would unironically support the expansion ending with Sylvanas letting Baine and Anduin out of prison herself after two years in the time out zone. It'd spare me from having to save them and it'd also make clear that she's truly irredeemable for reinflicting them on the factions, which would get me very hyped for when we raid her. Less hyped now that she has her new model though, cause I can't see any good mog pieces.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved her story build-up and did think it would be her before Calia was brought out into the open again, as I had already guessed long ago that Sylvanas was going to screw over the Forsaken.
    Voss would be 1000% better. She actually looks like them and Calia doesn't. Calia's strongest connection is the fact she is from Lordaeron. But the Forsaken currently don't even have the city anymore so it's kinda pointless. Her undeath is nothing like the Forsakens.
    "Father, is it over? I see only darkness before me."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Calia's leadership qualifications are nothing except coming out of the right vagina. This expansion, which is the one time where Sylvanas's actions have been a net negative to the Forsaken and you'd expect them to be building up Calia positively since they really, desperately want us to like her, she spends the entirety of the run time hanging around Kul Tiras and chilling, only to pop along at the very end and be given the job by default.

    Instead Voss gets all the major plot beats and build up and you even have her story go full circle from having to be helped integrate into the Forsaken to helping others go through that and becoming personally invested in a cause of her own volition instead of it being forced on her by outside powers, be it her father directly or the Forsaken through suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    Voss would be 1000% better. She actually looks like them and Calia doesn't. Calia's strongest connection is the fact she is from Lordaeron. But the Forsaken currently don't even have the city anymore so it's kinda pointless. Her undeath in nothing like the Forsakens.


    Well, Voss had a horrible childhood and controllers. Sylvanas, her father, Scarlets - she's seen some shit. She's been part of us long enough to have the finger on the pulse of the Forsaken (Or well... finger on the necrotic energy?). Calia's only right is that of the kingdom, which the council also supported.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, Voss had a horrible childhood and controllers. Sylvanas, her father, Scarlets - she's seen some shit. She's been part of us long enough to have the finger on the pulse of the Forsaken (Or well... finger on the necrotic energy?). Calia's only right is that of the kingdom, which the council also supported.
    That's why I get even more exasperated when they have her defer to Calia despite Calia having zero qualifications and her opening line to Voss being a reminder of her father and how she liked him. The same father who made Voss into a weapon for his cause of choice and wanted to kill her when he saw her raised, all happening at the same time Calia was doing nothing in Lordaeron as a prelude to doing nothing in Kul Tiras. One is so much more obviously appropriate for the role than the other that if it were anyone but Blizzard I'd legitimately think it's a switcheroo and they want to get this reaction.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    How about Lilian Voss? Before BFA I'd have laughed at it, but think about it - she wasn't involved in any of the things people complain about the Forsaken for, she actually was there for them as a people in the most recent expansion and has a common frame of reference with them, but she also has the right aesthetic and can also engage in the black humour, Tim Burton aesthetic while softening them up for whatever shambles the Horde is supposed to be right now.
    I am content with that being your karmic punishment for being dicks to others and mocking the fanbase too. I mean, what goes around comes around. You laughed at night elfs being “pansies who couldnt stop their genocide” and “tree hippies” now dont be so surprised with your turn of the wheel.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That's why I get even more exasperated when they have her defer to Calia despite Calia having zero qualifications and her opening line to Voss being a reminder of her father and how she liked him. The same father who made Voss into a weapon for his cause of choice and wanted to kill her when he saw her raised, all happening at the same time Calia was doing nothing in Lordaeron as a prelude to doing nothing in Kul Tiras. One is so much more obviously appropriate for the role than the other that if it were anyone but Blizzard I'd legitimately think it's a switcheroo and they want to get this reaction.
    A fraction of my mind always wanted this to be the clue that we would have Forsaken on Alliance side since Calia and Proudmore were both more aligned to that. I could go with Voss and the council as Voss is still young.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Isn't that because of again, new writing? Could've sworn it was stated that she didn't wish to take charge? Or am I remembering that quest wrong where you meet Calia in Tirisfal.
    I think Voss states this several times. She was pretty adamant about being there to help the Forsaken pick up the pieces without trying to lead them in a dialogue between her and Geya'rah (????) in Org (not sure if that bit is still there along with Theron trying to friendzone First Arcanist).

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Calia being 'Horde' makes sense for the sake of the Forsaken who just got fucked over by their previous ruler. Though, for Valeera, not sure if it confirms her being Horde by standing next to Horde - else that would make Mayla and Baine Alliance for having stood next to Alliance leaders before.
    she is loyal to the wrynn dynasty not to the alliance, if anduin is not present she does not have to follow anyone in the alliance.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    she is loyal to the wrynn dynasty not to the alliance, if anduin is not present she does not have to follow anyone in the alliance.
    She doesn't, no but honour might have her be there as the last Wrynn is missing.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Jesus, the more I look at that picture, the more wrong I see - as @Rafoel says, the closest there is to a Horde character there who even visually fits the Horde is Rokhan and he has one of those leper player character models. The Horde has no orcs in it at all. Possibly because there's none left to put there.

    Except Green Jesus, but Sylvanas abducts him. Why she doesn't just kill all the abductees is beyond me. It's not like those left over wouldn't go into the Maw anyway to try and stop her, so even it being bait is a bit blase.
    I was just going to comment on that.

    They've gone out of their way to turn the horde into the alliance.

    I guess in wow the Horde is the woke left, and the alliance is the right - this is how it's going to be
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-06-26 at 12:00 AM.

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