SPOILERS: Shadowlands Intro Faction Leader Weirdness

[Ardenaso]

Calia ought to shack up with the Argents

no please, Maxwell should disown her for not being there for the Lordaeronians, dead and alive, when they were under pressure by the Forsaken

[Skytotem]

Damm... The horde side is kinda sad :/ The alliance have all these good looking characters and the Horde... The horde has random people xD

It really shows how much they've gutted the Horde roster when they have to stuff *Valeera Sanguinar* Varian's comic book tagalong, onto the Horde that once enslaved her.

A character who has an iconic look but... nothing else going for them.

[Claymore]

I have a feeling that this intro is LITERALLY the reason they have a book coming out for this. The idea Sylvanas could kidnap so many people of importance (and power) is so preposterous, they're basically going to have to "write backwards" to make it work.

I know Warcraft was never the pinnacle of writing, but it is utterly astounding to me how since Legion ended, Blizzard's writers have managed to completely throw even basic consistency to the wind. How powerful is each faction? Depends on what kind of scene Blizzard wasn't to show! Sometimes the Alliance is overwhelming and the Horde is a "poor underdog", sometimes the combined might of the entire Alliance AND a sizable portion of the Horde is "on a suicide mission" to overcome Sylvanas loyalists. And then Sylvanas goes AWOL, on her own with only Nathanos and a handful of rangers, is suddenly able to kidnap literally THE MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE ON THE ENTIRE PLANET?!?

The "rule of cool" only allows for so much suspension of disbelief before the entire illusion shatters. That's what BFA managed to do, and it looks to be carrying over into Shadowlands, unfortunately.

[Flurryfang]

It really shows how much they've gutted the Horde roster when they have to stuff *Valeera Sanguinar* Varian's comic book tagalong, onto the Horde that once enslaved her.

A character who has an iconic look but... nothing else going for them.

Rokhan is only iconic by being a troll, since we have very few alive darkspear trolls, that reapper in the game.

Also, its not really the Horde on the horde side, its mostly allies..... Thalyssa is allied race, Valeria is a mercenary, Rokhan is just a soldier and Calia is.... Well, just a random undead really. She has no connection to the Horde.

Its just odd.

[Jester Joe]

1. Right so the Forsaken who guarded him and helped get his body and did everything Sylv wanted. Also the Undead Night Elf Plot is Bad Writing. If Undead didn't need to be brainwashed by the scourge to attack their loved ones and whatnot, then why did the Scourge bother? Sira and Delaryn's actions aren't just contrived, they're insulting to the playerbase's intelligence.

2. Well my first point wasn't flimsy so there's that. Moreover, People in-universe are not sitting behind computers discussing this dispassionately. They had friends and loved ones killed. Any competent writer would have some baggage attached to that for Lor'themar, moreover Calia has no formal authority over the forsaken, no command over their forces or infrastructure, what is she doing there?

3. Again, Calia shouldn't be aligned with the Horde. More pertinently, Genn was present for the nonsense with Calia in BTS, he'd have mentioned that all to Tyrande, they're friends and major political events would be discussed between Alliance leaders, especially when they heighten tensions with the Horde.

Even if Tyrande is mad at all undead, her wording would be different here with any sensible writer.

1. It was the player who assisted in getting his body, along with a handful of guards. Not the entirety of the Forsaken.

2. It is flimsy. When have you ever seen Lor'themar act out on his own personal feelings? It took them writing a short story to show how much the guy only thinks of his people and the Horde.

3. Why shouldn't she be aligned with the Horde? It makes more sense for her to be with the Forsaken than the Alliance.

[Skytotem]

1. It was the player who assisted in getting his body, along with a handful of guards. Not the entirety of the Forsaken.

2. It is flimsy. When have you ever seen Lor'themar act out on his own personal feelings? It took them writing a short story to show how much the guy only thinks of his people and the Horde.

3. Why shouldn't she be aligned with the Horde? It makes more sense for her to be with the Forsaken than the Alliance.

The man was strung up in a pyramid and being brainwashed by Forsaken!

Lorth can at least show discomfort or something, plus i hardly think his people are happy about another menethil

And yes... Taelia is friends with Anduin, knew Genn, knows Jaina, etc... She VERY MUCH belongs more on the alliance than on the Horde where she knows... No one!

[Jester Joe]

The man was strung up in a pyramid and being brainwashed by Forsaken!

Lorth can at least show discomfort or something, plus i hardly think his people are happy about another menethil

And yes... Taelia is friends with Anduin, knew Genn, knows Jaina, etc... She VERY MUCH belongs more on the alliance than on the Horde where she knows... No one!

By Sylvanas. And her close guards that she brought with her since it was shown she clearly still has followers that left with her.

And that kinda logic would also mean they shouldn't feel comfortable with working with another Lich King and should just kill him instead.

And in regards to acquaintances and friends, so does Baine. So does Thrall.

[Skytotem]

By Sylvanas. And her close guards that she brought with her since it was shown she clearly still has followers that left with her.

And that kinda logic would also mean they shouldn't feel comfortable with working with another Lich King and should just kill him instead.

And in regards to acquaintances and friends, so does Baine. So does Thrall.

1. I mean, we canonically know some forsaken are still loyal to her, and i see no reason for Derek to give the Forsaken the benefit of the doubt instead of *going to the argents*

2. No we shouldn't, that's why he was supposed to be secret and spooky!

3. How exactly does Calia know Thrall? And she met Baine like what, a few days ago?

In what universe would that make more sense than the Argents?

[Accendor]

Alliance didn't do jack shit to save Suramar. Players were there on the behalf of their order hall, not factions.

And even when we do take factions in consideration, belfs sent more manpower, and were overall just nicer and understanding, unlike stuck up and judgy Tyrande who let Thalyssra know exactly why she was there (hint, not to help NB). Tyrande's handling post Nightborne rebellion was atrocious.

Yeah ok, when you put it like that the genocide is of course completely ok.
Teldrassil was not done by a specific race, it was done by the horde as a whole and the NB fully supported the war that lead to it.

About the genocide comment, if i recall, there wasn't a single NB during Teldrassil event and in 8.2. Nothing in game even suggests that they are opnely hostile to nelf or any other memeber of the Alliance.

They marched with the horde and they participated in the war campaign - that is already enough.

Other then that, Suramar and Nightborne are horde for good, and their reasons to join were spot on.

The problem is not that they joined the horde, the problem is what they did afterwards.

[Rhlor]

For some bizarre reason, Blizz has Calia and Valeera standing off in the Horde grouping.

Why on earth is Valeera there? Did they really need a second blood elf with the Horde after Lor'themar?

Why not have Calia stand in between if she's supposed to be neutral? Blizz has lots of old forsaken characters (or at least Lillian) they could use and start building up.




Some other screens from The Red Shirt Guy

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...597999104?s=20

calia does not stand in the way because it is calia that tyrande attacks because she is a leader forsaken, the other leaders of the horde are defending calia from tyrande.

veleera always said that it was not an alliance that her loyalties are only hers and that she is only aligned with the house wrynn now that anduin is gone, she can return to her people.

[Skytotem]

calia does not stand in the way because it is calia that tyrande attacks because she is a leader forsaken, the other leaders of the horde are defending calia from tyrande.

veleera always said that it was not an alliance that her loyalties are only hers and that she is only aligned with the house wrynn now that anduin is gone, she can return to her people.

Why do they know or care who Calia is?

Valeera has never shown much care about returning to her people in the past, and if she were returning to them, why not be in Silvermoon or something? Why be there?

She's there for Anduin.

[Psykho]

one possibility with Valeera is she is 1) standing over there so if it comes to blows she is already behind the horde leaders if she needs to off them or 2) she's a placeholder

Hopefully Blizz isn't too far into the completion the accompanying cinematic so if they need to they can switch out Valeera with Velonara or some other Horde character

[Rhlor]

Why do they know or care who Calia is?

Valeera has never shown much care about returning to her people in the past, and if she were returning to them, why not be in Silvermoon or something? Why be there?

She's there for Anduin.

the leaders of the horde are defending the leader of the forsaken who are part of the horde, it makes sense that they defend her.
She can go save Anduin alongside her racial leader, she was not loyal to the alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

one possibility with Valeera is she is 1) standing over there so if it comes to blows she is already behind the horde leaders if she needs to off them or 2) she's a placeholder

Hopefully Blizz isn't too far into the completion the accompanying cinematic so if they need to they can switch out Valeera with Velonara or some other Horde character

[DeltrusDisc]

What an awkwardly placed bunch of leaders...
Calia is Alliance-friendly, this is goofy. Yes she is undead now, that doesn't change the fact she's only just recently "joined the Horde"...

And Valeera.
Yikes, Blizz, yikes.

[Skytotem]

What an awkwardly placed bunch of leaders...
Calia is Alliance-friendly, this is goofy. Yes she is undead now, that doesn't change the fact she's only just recently "joined the Horde"...

And Valeera.
Yikes, Blizz, yikes.

How the hell did she even join the horde?

[ravenmoon]

It’s quite interesting that thalyssra and valeera have their name colors as friendly to alliance, calia neutral, whereas lorthemar and rokhan are unfriendly. There might be a second layer of information there.

Yay Nightborne are going to be friendly to both factions and Lightforged forsaken are going to be neutral

- - - Updated - - -

Likely just leftovers from Valeera and Thalyssra's older model appearances in the game, I wouldn't read too much into it.
.

No, it cant be, blizzard have meanings within meanings, this is clearly hinting g at something to come

[LemonDemonGirl]

Oh man....
I really don't like how Tyrande is going even more crazy. She needs to do something about that so she doesn't end up having the Night Warrior power kill her. Otherwise she might end up becoming a Raid Boss....

Man, Rokhan and Muradin need a unique model


Calia and Valeera are weird choices...

I think that all important characters should get new models, but it seems to me that Blizzard will only do it when it's relevant lol

[RobertMugabe]

WTF is the horde even at this point. Half of these "leaders" shown there aren't even actually horde. Heck, Valeera, while a blood elf, is technically Alliance even.

[Syegfryed]

Then Valeera and Calia should be in the middle, not on the sides of the factions.

they should not even be there

[Skytotem]

they should not even be there

From a writing standpoint, yes, Calia should not exist as a weird "Lightdead"

But since Blizz made her, the only spot for her would be up by Bolvar and eventually slotted over into the Argents and forgotten about.