Could it be time for Universal Basic Income discussion?

[Themius]

The other reason is that the current welfare system is flawed.
People who don't need get it. People who need it too shy to get it.
The unemployment insurance is ridiculous. You pretend to look for a job to get it.

UBI simplified the system.

People who don't need it get it? Why is it that every investigation of this proves that to not be the case? Why is it that the government has wasted time and millions of dollars investigating this and keeps coming up with the same end goal? Even when they set out to investigate this to "prove' that there are major issues.

[Ihavewaffles]

so communism in the end

"this time it will work "

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"The political slogan "Workers of the world, unite!" is one of the most famous rallying cries from The Communist Manifesto (1848) by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (German: Proletarier aller Länder vereinigt Euch!, literally "Proletarians of all countries, unite!"

Marx forever alive

the problem is 99,99 % of people have no idea that when Marx was writing his nonsense jibbrish he was living off money that Engels inherited from his rich father

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but such "ovrproduction" o valuable goods leads direcly to wealth of each countries

you dont even have basic idea how macroeconomy works and you try to preach comunistic manifestos.

that is pure gold

Looks like ur reading is flawed n u went on a Libertarian hyperbole rant lol

I specifically wrote more nationization, meaning u already have some in CAPITALIST countries, countries are mixed economies, n saying more nationalization means more of the same, I didn't write full nationalization, wirh ubi u can run ur own lil company, specialization on something u want outside big industry.

Obviously farmers will go broke if they try to compete with vertical farming n have to go there if they want, their farmlands they will have to sell cuz they'll stop making profits meaning they can't afford to keep them (they'll be taxed out of their lands). This will be great for the environment, n the fuzzy lil' bees

[Vash The Stampede]

so communism in the end

"this time it will work "

I'm not a fan of communism but look around at how many tries we've given to capitalism. We're saving capitalism by using socialism to give the wealthy the money they need.

but such "ovrproduction" o valuable goods leads direcly to wealth of each countries

Overproduction of goods doesn't mean much when money is needed to buy said goods. In capitalism the first step is to limit production and even destroy the excess that nobody can afford to buy.

[BeepBoo]

I'm not a fan of communism but look around at how many tries we've given to capitalism. We're saving capitalism by using socialism to give the wealthy the money they need.

No, we're breaking one of the key components of capitalism by not allowing these companies to fail and be sold off cheaply to competitors or new entrants.

We're attempting to ease perceived pain and suffering of those involved with the failed companies, when the reality is the workers of those companies are capital that is almost always kept. It's literally NOT capitalism if you don't let failures happen.

It's not a shortcoming if a weak company fails and gets sold off. It is one of the KEY features expected to happen.

Overproduction of goods doesn't mean much when money is needed to buy said goods. In capitalism the first step is to limit production and even destroy the excess that nobody can afford to buy.

According to who? And with a lack of regs in place, it's EASIER for competition to sweep in and scoop up all those people who have unfulfilled needs.

You literally cannot set up barriers to entry in a true capitalistic system.

[kamuimac]

I'm not a fan of communism but look around at how many tries we've given to capitalism. We're saving capitalism by using socialism to give the wealthy the money they need.



Overproduction of goods doesn't mean much when money is needed to buy said goods. In capitalism the first step is to limit production and even destroy the excess that nobody can afford to buy.

and ? bilion + people living in capitalistc countries are more then happy with capitalism in its current form

just because few lazy people who f...ed up their own lives dream 24/7 of stealing what neighbour has and introducing communism doesnt mean we should change everything .

if anything most countries should cut down expenses on social support programs to force lazy people to work instead let them live off social support.

look at countries like UK - you have there now whole generations living out of social support - they have kids and thosek ids too dont ever think about going to work because why should they if state supports their way of live.

[Powerogue]

I think whatever's proposed should address our massive failings as of late with clear solutions. Lay out, for example, how UBI would have helped the US, with its healthcare dependent on being employed and grossly overinflated in price, handle the epidemic.

[Kokolums]

Imagine you are terrified of SJWs trying to control your life. Imagine you fear cancel culture targeting you. Now imagine your income comes in the form of UBI and the person who decides whether or not you get a check is an SJW thinking about cancelling you. Or imagine UBI originally comes with no strings attached, like a drug dealer giving you his best stuff the first few times you buy from him. Then once you are hooked, they start adding stipulations to get your UBI or else they cancel you.

I think the potential for abuse would put a lot of people off the idea.

[Elegiac]

Imagine you are terrified of SJWs trying to control your life. Imagine you fear cancel culture targeting you. Now imagine your income comes in the form of UBI and the person who decides whether or not you get a check is an SJW thinking about cancelling you. Or imagine UBI originally comes with no strings attached, like a drug dealer giving you his best stuff the first few times you buy from him. Then once you are hooked, they start adding stipulations to get your UBI or else they cancel you.

I think the potential for abuse would put a lot of people off the idea.

How is this literally any different from at-will employment?

[LilSaihah]

How is this literally any different from at-will employment?

You can employ yourself. You can't print your own money.

[Elegiac]

You can employ yourself. You can't print your own money.

UBI isn't printing money it's wealth redistribution.

[the game]

UBI isn't printing money it's wealth redistribution.

until you run out of other people's money.

[LilSaihah]

UBI isn't printing money it's wealth redistribution.

Taking other people's money and redistributing it to yourself is also quite illegal.

[kamuimac]

until you run out of other people's money.

this. all this nonsense depends on notion that there will be suckers out there working and paying taxes .

[PC2]

this. all this nonsense depends on notion that there will be suckers out there working and paying taxes .

As if there's a choice in the matter. No workers equals collapse and extinction, unless people want to go back to the primitive cave man days for some reason.

[segara82]

[xenogear3]

Taking other people's money and redistributing it to yourself is also quite illegal.

Whether you like or not, the government is already doing that.
The government never increased the tax. Where does this $1200 Trump paycheck come from?
Where does trillions of dollars bailout money come from?

UBI gives away more evenly.
The current government gives away mainly to the big corporation.
The big corporation will get less if UBI is implemented. The inflation and the interest rate will go up which is bad for business.

[unbound]

Govermnent invesing money into industries to create more jobs and provide people with fishing rod, not with fish, maybe?

Sounds cute, but if you only provide people with a fishing rod without teaching them how to fish, then you are giving them even less than fish.

If you give money to industries without giving them any incentive to train people on jobs, then they just go hire cheap fishermen in a poor country. You've done nothing for the people of your own country.

"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem—neat, plausible, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken

[Yadryonych]

If you give money to industries without giving them any incentive to train people on jobs, then they just go hire cheap fishermen in a poor country. You've done nothing for the people of your own country.

Uh-oh, sounds like nationalism. Why aren't you so unwelcoming to cheap fishermen from other countries? Are you a xenophobe? A racist maybe? A literal Hitler worshipper? Such a shame!

What I meant is that if government is to help the people it should directly or indirectly hire them and pay them for actually doing something instead of giving money away, the tax money of other people who put an effort into earning these

[kail]

Imagine you are terrified of SJWs trying to control your life. Imagine you fear cancel culture targeting you. Now imagine your income comes in the form of UBI and the person who decides whether or not you get a check is an SJW thinking about cancelling you. Or imagine UBI originally comes with no strings attached, like a drug dealer giving you his best stuff the first few times you buy from him. Then once you are hooked, they start adding stipulations to get your UBI or else they cancel you.

I think the potential for abuse would put a lot of people off the idea.

It's not really Universal Basic Income if someone decides who receives the income.

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this. all this nonsense depends on notion that there will be suckers out there working and paying taxes .

You think everyone would quit if they can now afford to live a minimum life?

[silveth]

People are still discussing UBI which in the current world doesn't work? Giving everyone UBI at level X does nothing but move the starting line to X. Basically if you start at 0, that's the line that means you have nothing extra. Give everyone 100. Guess what, 100 becomes the line that means you have nothing extra. so if milk costs 3 when 0 = nothing, don't be surprised when it costs 103 when 100 = nothing. Because the farmer, the processor, the transporter, and the store are going to still have the same overhead, the only difference is your raising the amount it will cost by adding to the base level below the costs. The taxes for UBI have to come from somewhere. The workers would still need to get paid enough to make it worth it, because you have just increased their taxes by a ton. The business will have charge more because you have just increased their taxes by a ton.

Giving everyone UBI, which we can't afford means raising the taxes a ton on the workers, the businesses, the home owners, the school users, and the goods. Because just printing money makes it worth less. Money is only worth anything when backed by labor and goods.

Its like the 15 dollar minimum wage. It doesn't help in the long run because it doesn't increase the value of the hour of labor. Supply and demand is very simple. If the supply is higher then the demand, then the supply value goes down. If the supply shrinks to be below the demand or demand rises above supply, then the supply value goes up. Its the reason you had Trump and Sanders on opposite sides in 2016 saying that illegal immigration hurt workers. If you want jobs to have higher salaries, you have to increase the value of the labor's work. To do that, you have to limit the influx of additional labors.