[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Hellspawn]

Anyway, with the burning legion defeated, the ban on Arcane in NE society should be lifted... so the highborne should take their place in NE society again and this society should be transformed by it.

I think the Shen'dralar will have their place but I don't think they will have a big transformative effect on the night elfs. Nothing we saw so far with the night elf point in that direction. Yes I can see that like in Feralas there will be some Shen'dralar that got night elf mage students but all that nobility stuff or extrem/constant use of arcane magic by everyone like we see with blood elfs and night born will not happen (Since that kind of fantasy is already fullfilled by these two races).

[Caerule]

It makes sense for the Night Elves to have withdrawn to Hyjal for now. It is both their safest remaining territory for their citizens for the moment, as well as an important site of power that they cannot leave unguarded.

I'm not certain it'll be their capitol site in the end though. I'd not be against it per se. But I would prefer they claim somewhere new.

There's many options. My favorite would be for them to use their power to reclaim a land lost to disaster. Desolace for example. Or my favorite idea: Grow a new world tree around the Sword of Sargeras, to be a sheath around it. Protecting Azeroth from harm, bringing life back to Silithus, and providing a new home and charge to the Night Elves, all in one go.

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i didn't see people wanting and demanding nightborne to go horde, blizzard just shoved there for reasons.

Eh, you missed me then. I said from the very beginning that they should go Horde, and was arguing in all the threads about them that those arguing for them to go Alliance were being ridiculous. It was pretty clear to me that they were echoing the Blood Elf story, and everything about them was incompatible with the Night Elves.

[Hellspawn]

There's many options. My favorite would be for them to use their power to reclaim a land lost to disaster. Desolace for example. Or my favorite idea: Grow a new world tree around the Sword of Sargeras, to be a sheath around it. Protecting Azeroth from harm, bringing life back to Silithus, and providing a new home and charge to the Night Elves, all in one go.

I think the night elfs fit more into something that is old, regrowing a forest in an area they left the way it was for 10k years seems stupid to me, leave that area to the Centaurs... and maybe Ogers.
Silithus should be resolved in a faction neutral effort, a main hub for the night elfs with the Silithids next to them seems super strange to me.
So why would you want to put them somewhere that has no connection to them or their culture?

[Mace]

I think the night elfs fit more into something that is old, regrowing a forest in an area they left the way it was for 10k years seems stupid to me, leave that area to the Centaurs... and maybe Ogers.
Silithus should be resolved in a faction neutral effort, a main hub for the night elfs with the Silithids next to them seems super strange to me.
So why would you want to put them somewhere that has no connection to them or their culture?

I think that's only true for those who feel them a forest race. To a person like me who feels and sees them as more, forests, while loved are never going to be enough or be fully satisfied with them. I get that druids feel that way about them and all night elves love nature, - but forests alone isn't going to be enough. It won't be enough for the Highborne, and now that the Long vigil is ended, isolation is ended, and they can use the arcane again - which many of them are naturally good at and like, you are going to get 1/3 to half the population in time that want more.
@Tanaria I really like that there is more to the night elves than forest, and while I can respect if blizzard want to make the Daranssiasn i.e. the alliance group predominantly forest based, they really ought to make sure they don't abandon the Highborne/Moonguard arcane night elves and the Demon hunter night elves.

These are also very powerful and iconic night elf groups that should get their own development, even if it's not major. So I can accept the Darnassians going 80% forest elf, 33% priest - as long as we see Highborne and Demon hunter factions developed and having roles. It doesn't have to be related to the Darnassians, but they need to show up.

Highborne having their own city in Eldre'thalas or sharing with Suramar and the Nightborne amongst other broken isles elves is also fine by me.
Demon hunters continuing as a relevant and important group, with a heavier night elf presence and leadership. While I'm fine about blood elves being on board, the Illidari, like druidism is a night elf originied class. You see the mage, while also originating from the night elves in the lore, is actually a human/high elf based and centred class - (you can tell, because if it was centred on the Night elves, the arcane and star/moon spells would have a strong presence and the night would be feature).

But to be honest, I don't have any legit reason why blood elves can't be equal partners in the Illidari faction, I don't have any legit reasons why Tauren can't be equal partners in druidism. Just because they're night elf based and originate from night elves doesn't seem a good enough reason. It is good enough that most of the Druid and demon hunter skills are brought to bear by Malfurion and Illidan Stormrage, 2 of the night elves' biggest heroes, I see no reason why blood elves have to be somehow lesser - just like I guess others see no reason why human mages need to be lesser than elven mages.

Magecraft is more widespread and practiced in the Blood elves and highborne night elves as well as Nightborne - and ALL elves, whether Darnassian Kaldorei, Shal'dorei, Ren'dorei, Sin'dorei, or Quel'dorei (both Thalassian and Darnassian) have a natural affinity for magic humans do not have - it means on average there will always be more elves either wielding magic or able to wield arcane magic even if they don't choose to (like a good portion of Darnassians)

But I would like Highborne and Demon hunter factions to continue to feature. If they can't be bothered to develop Highborne well on their own, then I'm willing to accept @EnigmAddict 's compromise, which is develop the Highborne with the Nightborne - so they at least get development. As they are a valid part of the Kaldorei race and history, and shouldn't disappear, but are worthy of having their own development.

[Rhlor]

I mean yeah, you learn from your mistakes, the idea of castles were eventually abandoned as siege equipment became more and more advanced with cannons punching holes through walls with relative ease.

the walls were modified to be more useful against artillery fire in the modern age as opposed to the middle ages

[Soon-TM]

Who is "we"? Are we talking about the same faction where 60% of the players go with blood elfs and wanted Vulpera?

Given how vastly unpopular are NB, I'd say that yes, almost nobody in the Horde wanted NB to start with.

[Rhlor]

While that is not proof of a capital will be there, my strongest instinct tells me if blizzard were going to work on a capital for night elves, it would be Hyjal - Well of Eternity and Nordrassil are the arcane-nature duality power central to the race and they are both there.

If they don't build one it's going to be Suramar whether they share with Nightborne or kick them out - it's the most practical choice and far easier to change lore than design yet another capital.

Eldre'thalas is a 3rd choice option, but it's old design and at this point using it you might as well rebuild it from scratch and Hyjal makes a better local, more sense and is a nice location. But it is a viable option, either as primary capital or 2nd NElf city

My future Prediction of Night Elves with Hyjal Capital
Hyjal restored, before the buildings come up. THis image is of PIan di Cultura. Just imagine Nordrassil at the top of the path, with the Well of eternity beneath it, and the night elves build a beautiful new capital on the grass land open areas along the route down.




The night elves are alliance only in name, they help EK group with nothing, and don't ask for any help - they are focused on rebuilding (Highborne focus on civilization and progress, Druids on restoring nature and balance/harmony, Priests still govern making sure everything holds together and the NElves don't go off course. However they all watch global affairs closely, making sure they are never caught off guard and are prepared.

I also predict Shadowlands will restore the WoT slaughtered Night Elves and it would be very welcome if the Farondis also get that miracle too

A better, brighter and bigger Future For Night Elves
Night elves, are now crazy about regrowth (druids) and Development (Highborne led) - they harness their power fully, to protect their lands from ever being at the mercy of other races and to make sure they're race and civilization recover into a power house. It is not a drive for an empire, but rather that the places they call home will be restored and secure.

Amongst the night elves, the druids seek to regrow all the forests lost and heal lands, the Highborne lead efforts focused on restoring the ruins and as much of kaldorei civilization as possible. Highborne do not have the respect they took for granted in the pre-sundering era, so they are very focused on trying to prove they are the high calling they were once believed as. They engage with the rest of the world, and are known for having high standards almost as if "we'll teach you how to live the right way" They do this from their centre in Eldre'thalas - they rule western and northern Feralas spilling into much of desolace, but unlike Hyjal, they're far more engaged with the world, trade etc, and serve as the defacto night elf civilization on Kalimdor - while Hyjal is full of researchers, and is more considered a sacred capital - the Highborne study and utilise the Well, the druids the nature and the emerald dream through the tree, and a new Cathedral to Elune and primary HQ of the Order of Elune is built there. The Cathedral of Eternal night is the broken isle chapter, Nightborne and Val'Sharah priests that moved south operate it there - Elunites do pilgrimage to Hyjal, though it is mostly night elven. However CoEN has Nightborne, Fangfire worgen, Void elf races involved.

This effectively makes the NElves two major operations, but the greater focus is on the Hyjal faction. This is what the game will focus on when dealing g with night elves mainly, Highborne will be background

Highborne Alternative
A recent proposal caught my eye - Blizzard swing the Highborne over to Suramar that opens itself up as a neutral sanctuary city due to political developments.

In this scenario, the Nightborne are still horde but the city is open to Night elves too, and alliance Highborne migrate their - together they start a kaldorei civilization rebuild initiative - most Highborne development continues via the broken isles alongside the Nightborne, think of it as a Dalaran, but horde centric instead.

Blizzard here choose to develop future Highborne stuff in conjunction with the Nightborne, leaving Kalimdor more right elf wc3 group , heavier priest/druid focus and minute highborne presence.

How the Various Night Elven Races/Groups look in 10.0
A new night elf grand Holy capital is on Mount Hyjal. It's the best location if you're going to build fully for the night elvs - but if you're not, it's the broken isles. Hyjal has the Well of Eternity, the Tree, the wild gods. Build a great city, and a temple, and there is lots of forest for miles around - it can serve as the central hub for the kaldorei moving forward.

•Highborne will have their all capital in Eldre'thalas [Alliance] Or shifted to Suramar
•Nightborne in Suramar [Horde]
•Nazdorei (future allied race based on naga/night elf in New Zin'Azshari - Nazjatar [TBD - but likely alliance, could be both]
•Fangfire Worgen (new Worgen NElf allied race) - Shal'anir Val'Sharah [Alliance]

•Darnassian Capital - Hyjal

Hyjal capital would actually involve druid culture too amongst priest and Highborne. Yes Highborne will have a huge presence due to the well, druids because of the wild gods and trees, and Priests will have a temple built. And no, no tree city, Nordrassil and the surrounding forest is the tree portion, architecture is pre-sundering but full of nature and life as all aspects meet.

The capital on Hyjal, New Elundis, is not your typical city, sure, trade happens etc, but access is mostly through portal and with permission. There are very strict rules of behaviour and contect, and many no-go areas for visitors. The well of Eternity sacred to the night elves is there and is the frontier of arcane research and development, while the nature wild gods so revered by the night elven druids also reside there as a land deeply connected with nature. the restord forests are huge wild lands, but you can often see wild gods visiting the city, and the massive tree in the centre hosts many unique life forms as a gateway between the dream and the present.

Deep Dive

they've probably gone a lot further in the healing/cleansing of the forest arena, the Druids have learnt to tap the power of the Emerald dream into the world in ways unknown previously (this follow Malfurion's gains in Stormrage book), the night elves are now using their powers fully - both well of Eternity and the Emerald dream world tree.

They are very determined to be strong enough to defend their lands (priest), guard nature (druids) and be the leaders of civilization and progress i.e. show the world how it's done (Highborne).

They consider themselves the only ones truly responsible enough with this power - having witnessed the other races often abuse power, and realising they (after Azshara's reign) have really proved themselves not only capable but the best at managing and the best equipped to do so. They highlight their society as being the most balanced and capable of dealing with and utilising power effectively.

it's not all talk. While they remain mostly reclusive and autonomous to the rest of the races, they work with wild gods, the blue flight (highborne) and greenflight too. The druids (incl tauren, trolls, worgen ones) are very much involved in Hyjal though it's the night elf capital. they tap the power of the dream to heal the forests. The cenarion circle isn't dissolved because the Night elves made their capital in Hyjal, it continues its work on and in the great tree and surrounding forests, druids intermingle with the night elves in their city, though they mostly stay out in the woods.

It's not the the priesthood don't trust the Highborne, they consider it their duty that Kaldorei civilization would never go off kilter again, so they watch and monitor - but the way they do this mainly is buy maintaining the moral rectitude, and discipline of the people, the thing is , the highborne badly want their reputation and revere restored. Farondis restoration boosted this a long way, but the pride of the Highborne is what forces them to be even more diligent, they don't want the people to ever think they'd repeat the past and that they can be fully trusted, they are also driven by proving to the people the Night elves do things best, and they are most capable.

As such they quickly ascend to handle progress, development, diplomacy affairs, and while the priests deal with internal affairs and leadership buck stops with the High Priestess, the highborne are the international face of the Night elves handling most of the interactions with other races, although a priest usually accompanies (not because of trust issues, but their position of leadership).

Although they operate in very different locations and spheres. Prince Farondis, Tyrande Whisperwind and Malfurion Stormrage are the 3 main leaders the Kaldorei honour the most and look to and are the 3 most trusted. Farondis has respect from everyone, and is the main reason the Highborne are trusted by everyone a lot more than previously His contribution is obvious - as Tyrande isn't actually that concerned about night elf progress and development - but more spirituality and military defense, while Malfurion is still far more concerned about nature, and the harmony of the race.

Highborne in Broken Isle Alternative
In the Highborne mostly go to Suramar alternative - Prince Farondis is instead involved with Suramar and broken isle affairs, considered alliance friendly because he is night elven, he is actually neutral. New night elf isolationist leanings make for stronger broken isle ties, but they are still separate. Broken isle people engage more with others and it is those islander night elves that are friendly with Highmoutnain (they've been living close to and peacefully for 10k years - it's not going to change cos HM went horde) and Nightborne their kin in their mutual city now opened up they helped wrest from the Legion doing a lot more than Tyrande's group - Nightborne have no reason to reject or alienate these night elves even if they're on the horde and these ones are not : Suramar and the Nightborne while in the horde are not super horde loyalists that ignore everyone else - that's why it considers its city neutral for elves even though it's leadership aligned with horde

But blizzard here tie Highborne and Nightborne together and use the isle to develop a more civilization focused night elf/Nightborne world.

If they want to take it a step further, they could make NElf highborne like the Illidari, a neutral group that you can role play as a night elf mage, you helping the kaldorei/shal'dorei efforts as your main focus rather than the Hyjal efforts. You can choose to ide tidy with both just like DH and DK Nelf characters can as their faction is not loyal to the Darnassians.

This allows player Highborne lovers to sort of have what they've always wanted i.e. kaldorei civilization proper without feeling like they're being traitor or joining the horde. Their initiative with the Nightborne becomes focused on developing the fallen Elven night civilization. It also allows some complexity and nuance to elven affairs which is acceptable imo.

could alliance players please stop wanting to steal the horde capitals?

some want to take Suramar from us, others want to take silvermoon from us and others want lordaeron.

the alliance has its own territories!

I'm glad to hear that on the horde side, Calia and Lilian are already bringing the forsaken back to lordaeron and preparing to rebuild their racial capital.

[Beloren]

@Tanaria I really like that there is more to the night elves than forest, and while I can respect if blizzard want to make the Daranssiasn i.e. the alliance group predominantly forest based, they really ought to make sure they don't abandon the Highborne/Moonguard arcane night elves and the Demon hunter night elves.

These are also very powerful and iconic night elf groups that should get their own development, even if it's not major. So I can accept the Darnassians going 80% forest elf, 33% priest - as long as we see Highborne and Demon hunter factions developed and having roles. It doesn't have to be related to the Darnassians, but they need to show up.

Highborne having their own city in Eldre'thalas or sharing with Suramar and the Nightborne amongst other broken isles elves is also fine by me.
Demon hunters continuing as a relevant and important group, with a heavier night elf presence and leadership. While I'm fine about blood elves being on board, the Illidari, like druidism is a night elf originied class. You see the mage, while also originating from the night elves in the lore, is actually a human/high elf based and centred class - (you can tell, because if it was centred on the Night elves, the arcane and star/moon spells would have a strong presence and the night would be feature).



But I would like Highborne and Demon hunter factions to continue to feature. If they can't be bothered to develop Highborne well on their own, then I'm willing to accept @EnigmAddict 's compromise, which is develop the Highborne with the Nightborne - so they at least get development. As they are a valid part of the Kaldorei race and history, and shouldn't disappear, but are worthy of having their own development.

OMG - finally you see it. This is what the Nightborne were always meant to be - that side of hte kaldorei, they just happened to go horde. It makes Highborne development awkward or a lot of double work without them. They're much better off using the Nightborne alongside the Highborne to develop that civilisation side of the kaldorei - and one the Thalassians will be friendly with.

Nightborne draw in the blood elves, Highborne draw in the High/void elves - but it's not a Thalassian thing - those are just their friends, it's about building up the elven civilisation, the original one, the one the Highborne and Nightborne actually love the most and reigned as royals - the Darnassians aren't going to be keen on that.

I accept the Darnassian can build architectural similar styles, and probably should, but there's is a bit more like Darnassus meets Zin'Azshari - while Suramar is something more unique.

Anyway there is a place for the Highborne, and it fits much better with the Nightborne and separate from the Kalimdor Darnassians. This is what you should be hoping for. Night elf Darnassians and Nightborne being tight friends after 7.3.5 is too unrealistic, once they went separate ways, it is a bridge too far, that doesn't need to happen.

The real need is for the Highborne, and that most people can accept. They can see the Nightborne working with Broken Isle night elves, even if those aren't in the horde, and if that can happen, they can also see the Highborne being involved. It's not hard to see Suramar be a Dalaran like city for elves, mainly purple elves and kaldorei pre-sundering types, ancient types. Even if the Highborne are alliance, their focus becomes more Magecraft and civilisation rebuilding for elven people - not separation and isolation like the Kaldorei.

This is a better proposition.

[Hellspawn]

*snip*

The portion you quoted is not even about highborne or mages. Personally I want the Shen'dralar as a part of the night elfs. I want to keep the mix of wood and dark elfs and focus a bit on the dark elf part since that was explored very little to non during world of warcrafts lifetime.

[Mace]

OMG - finally you see it. This is what the Nightborne were always meant to be - that side of hte kaldorei, they just happened to go horde. It makes Highborne development awkward or a lot of double work without them. They're much better off using the Nightborne alongside the Highborne to develop that civilisation side of the kaldorei - and one the Thalassians will be friendly with.

Nightborne draw in the blood elves, Highborne draw in the High/void elves - but it's not a Thalassian thing - those are just their friends, it's about building up the elven civilisation, the original one, the one the Highborne and Nightborne actually love the most and reigned as royals - the Darnassians aren't going to be keen on that.

I accept the Darnassian can build architectural similar styles, and probably should, but there's is a bit more like Darnassus meets Zin'Azshari - while Suramar is something more unique.

Anyway there is a place for the Highborne, and it fits much better with the Nightborne and separate from the Kalimdor Darnassians. This is what you should be hoping for. Night elf Darnassians and Nightborne being tight friends after 7.3.5 is too unrealistic, once they went separate ways, it is a bridge too far, that doesn't need to happen.

The real need is for the Highborne, and that most people can accept. They can see the Nightborne working with Broken Isle night elves, even if those aren't in the horde, and if that can happen, they can also see the Highborne being involved. It's not hard to see Suramar be a Dalaran like city for elves, mainly purple elves and kaldorei pre-sundering types, ancient types. Even if the Highborne are alliance, their focus becomes more Magecraft and civilisation rebuilding for elven people - not separation and isolation like the Kaldorei.

This is a better proposition.

It's not that I never s aw it, but you don't understand the desire to have the Darnassian group, the hero group to be complete and whole, bearing the full identity of all that night elves is suppose to be, this is better than having them across several factions. The desire is to see the night elf people come together and unify again - once separated and divided by the events of the Legion, now all coming together again and being their own race.

I am willing to accept compromise like you suggest, but my preferred option is that the Highborne are developed alongside the other Night elves and the demon hunters recognised as valuable night elves even if they have t heir own faction - it would be like the Cenarion druids, their first loyalty is to the druids, but then it's to their race, and they'll help out when in trouble, this is how I would like DHs to be, not this completely separate body that has little to no interaction. However I'd accept the totally separate faction over a no DH or no Highborne - because at least that way it is clear that there is more to the night elf race, even if I it still remains outside the Darnassians.

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could alliance players please stop wanting to steal the horde capitals?

some want to take Suramar from us, others want to take silvermoon from us and others want lordaeron.

the alliance has its own territories!

I'm glad to hear that on the horde side, Calia and Lilian are already bringing the forsaken back to lordaeron and preparing to rebuild their racial capital.

Th e only time that will go away is when blizzard stops giving the horde faction alliance races. You have high elves and night elves on the alliance, but then you go and take some of their factions and blow them up on the horde, making them even more attractive and appealing both model and asset wise, but yet all those features are alliance originals, so you're going to have alliance players knocking on that door. Silvermoon and Suramar are both High elf and Night elven assets and architecture even though the high elf and night elf factions that control them are now on the horde. IT should surprise you that alliance players desire their access.

You don't see alliance players asking for Tauren, Troll, Forsaken, Goblins or even Pandas - because they are either completely horde or when shared, the horde version isn't better. Surely you see that this is the cause of most of the requests right?

Telling them they have no right too or shouldn't want it isn't going to help at all, and you must then ask yourself why do you feel that way when these really are alliance races carried over.

[Ardenaso]

For 10k years they did not build any capital... and then suddenly Darnassus! And since it got destroyed, why wouldn't they build another one now? Also since Hyjal had its story in cataclysm what better reuse of the Zone to make it the center point for the night elfs and build their capital there.

I remember seeing somewhere in the Warcraft 3 manual that Nighthaven was their capital

[Mace]

The portion you quoted is not even about highborne or mages. Personally I want the Shen'dralar as a part of the night elfs. I want to keep the mix of wood and dark elfs and focus a bit on the dark elf part since that was explored very little to non during world of warcrafts lifetime.

I agree, the charm of the night elves is having both. While that can still be there if they are totally segregated as Enigmaddict proposes ( a proposal I first suggested 3 years ago), there is a charm and beauty in the kaldorei having both side by side, in contrast. How they mix that up whether for example you have a city havlf marble and half wood, or it's a full marble city but with lots of nature, interwoven even in the stonework and gardens, glowers and park spaces with trees - the execution is up to them, but it's that duality that makes the night elvs interesting, it is sharper with them actually together, side by side in a night elf nation, then segregated into different factions.

But either option is better than the demon hunter and Highborne night elf aspects just disappearing.

[Hellspawn]

I remember seeing somewhere in the Warcraft 3 manual that Nighthaven was their capital

Thats only a village.

[Ardenaso]

Anyway, with the burning legion defeated, the ban on Arcane in NE society should be lifted... so the highborne should take their place in NE society again and this society should be transformed by it.

at this point they should allow the High Elves and the Higborne to bask in their Well and Moonwells

[Rhlor]

It's not that I never s aw it, but you don't understand the desire to have the Darnassian group, the hero group to be complete and whole, bearing the full identity of all that night elves is suppose to be, this is better than having them across several factions. The desire is to see the night elf people come together and unify again - once separated and divided by the events of the Legion, now all coming together again and being their own race.

I am willing to accept compromise like you suggest, but my preferred option is that the Highborne are developed alongside the other Night elves and the demon hunters recognised as valuable night elves even if they have t heir own faction - it would be like the Cenarion druids, their first loyalty is to the druids, but then it's to their race, and they'll help out when in trouble, this is how I would like DHs to be, not this completely separate body that has little to no interaction. However I'd accept the totally separate faction over a no DH or no Highborne - because at least that way it is clear that there is more to the night elf race, even if I it still remains outside the Darnassians.

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Th e only time that will go away is when blizzard stops giving the horde faction alliance races. You have high elves and night elves on the alliance, but then you go and take some of their factions and blow them up on the horde, making them even more attractive and appealing both model and asset wise, but yet all those features are alliance originals, so you're going to have alliance players knocking on that door. Silvermoon and Suramar are both High elf and Night elven assets and architecture even though the high elf and night elf factions that control them are now on the horde. IT should surprise you that alliance players desire their access.

You don't see alliance players asking for Tauren, Troll, Forsaken, Goblins or even Pandas - because they are either completely horde or when shared, the horde version isn't better. Surely you see that this is the cause of most of the requests right?

Telling them they have no right too or shouldn't want it isn't going to help at all, and you must then ask yourself why do you feel that way when these really are alliance races carried over.

I see many people from the alliance wanting to remove the forsaken from their home that was always lordaeron.

The nightborne separated from the night elves 10,000 years ago. They are another group of elves with their own different culture than the night elves, the blood elves are the mainstream of the thalassian elves. the alliance has a small group these elves and they have telogrus!

Each faction has its own territories! I don't see anyone in the horde wanting to steal stormwind or ironforge

[Mace]

Anyway, with the burning legion defeated, the ban on Arcane in NE society should be lifted... so the highborne should take their place in NE society again and this society should be transformed by it.

Agreed 100%, that is what I want to see. I don't want them annexed to the horde, and I can compromise with them working with the horde night elves (i.e. the Nightborne) in building or restoring the great elven night civilization - however, the preferred option is to see the night elves whole, druids, priests and arcane wielders working in tandem in a diverse but cohesive society finding it's feet after a very very tragic history.

I'd also like it if they just stopped giving the night elves tragedy.. when they come to them show them being victorious, competent, dangerous, and moving forward - enough of the victims, being weak, attacked all the time, slaughtered, losing cool things like immorality, magic, the emerald dream etc - ENOUGH - let's see them taking these things back, winning their lands, properly using their power, kicking butt, establishing themselves - they've got such great stuff in their lore, it feels like a cheating the fans if it's only visible on the horde via the Nightborne - who are shown as powerful and competent with the cream of kaldorei civilization, while the actual kaldorei are always whipped , losing, destroyed etc.

And then Rhlor wonders why alliance fans keep asking for what he refers to as "horde" stuff. d'uh, isn't it obvious. Tell blizzard to write and produce the alliance with cool stuff and the best from their races, and they won't complain, no one complains over the horde pandaren, because they're not shown better than the alliance ones. Blame the horde favoritism.

[Rhlor]

Sure, but even then nothing has changed, the night elves would still be stuck at the -top- of a pile of firewood.

the point is that what they need is better defenses they can have them on their new tree

[Kyphael]

Nordrassil/Mount Hyjal always made perfect sense. It's a beautiful zone in Kalimdor that is no longer current content and was just an old expansion's quest zone that can be easily re-purposed through phasing as the Night Elf capital. I'm all for using cool old zones through phasing. It's win/win. Still waiting on Gilneas. Plus, wasn't Teldrassil a failed World Tree anyway while Nordrassil is a successful one?

[Mace]

Sure, but even then nothing has change or evolved with the tree, the night elves would still be stuck at the -top- of a pile of firewood.

Indeed.. besides, that town is ugly, the lake and the trees looks very cool..

Now imagine is this was in the middle of that beautiful nature trees:

[IMG]

Instead of those brown red roof top buildings in the middle of the nature pattern:




Now that's what I'm taling. Night elf architecture mixed with nature.

- - - Updated - - -

the point is that what they need is better defenses they can have them on their new tree

Ah, but when we say use Highborne , use the arcane magic the night elves are originally the pioneering race off, you get your guys coming in and saying:
"no- that's horde stuff, night elves use nature not arcane - stop asking for horde stuff"

To which people like me respond with an essay showing how much arcane stuff is naturally night elven too - and then your guys ignoring everything and just repeating - "that's not night elves"

[Rhlor]

Agreed 100%, that is what I want to see. I don't want them annexed to the horde, and I can compromise with them working with the horde night elves (i.e. the Nightborne) in building or restoring the great elven night civilization - however, the preferred option is to see the night elves whole, druids, priests and arcane wielders working in tandem in a diverse but cohesive society finding it's feet after a very very tragic history.

I'd also like it if they just stopped giving the night elves tragedy.. when they come to them show them being victorious, competent, dangerous, and moving forward - enough of the victims, being weak, attacked all the time, slaughtered, losing cool things like immorality, magic, the emerald dream etc - ENOUGH - let's see them taking these things back, winning their lands, properly using their power, kicking butt, establishing themselves - they've got such great stuff in their lore, it feels like a cheating the fans if it's only visible on the horde via the Nightborne - who are shown as powerful and competent with the cream of kaldorei civilization, while the actual kaldorei are always whipped , losing, destroyed etc.

And then Rhlor wonders why alliance fans keep asking for what he refers to as "horde" stuff. d'uh, isn't it obvious. Tell blizzard to write and produce the alliance with cool stuff and the best from their races, and they won't complain, no one complains over the horde pandaren, because they're not shown better than the alliance ones. Blame the horde favoritism.

Horde favoritism ?? Did you see our side at ICC? lorthemar is the last OG racial leader !! blizzard spent the last 10 years destroying the horde by killing all of our characters and killing what was the old horde concepts we don't even have warchief and after all the shit blizz did with the horde players we take that as a relief.

horde players spend most of their time killing horde NPCs !! blizz has no favoritism for the horde! use the horde to help the alliance against the world's great evil, and then use the horde as villains to show that the alliance is Marvel's avengers.

i hope blizz now keeps thier promise to leave the horde alone