Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[PACOX]

47k cases in the US today, shattering another record. DeSantis has refused a mask mandate, not to mention taking very minimal actions towards closing things down a bit (bars cant serve alcohol anymore, but thats about the extent of it, despite seeing over 9000 new cases today in Florida alone. Actually a staggering amount of stupidity coming out of the government.

We're hosting the NBA playoffs though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cynep]

But that's how science works, you see; we can measure quite a few things.

COVID has a higher R0 value than the flu, which means it's more contagious. COVID has a higher herd immunity threshold than the flu (due to the higher R0), which means it will spread farther. COVID has a higher IFR than the flu, which means it's more lethal. And COVID has no vaccine yet, unlike the flu.

It is objectively worse by pretty much every method of scientific comparison.

First let me mass-quote myself:

If you compare virus-to-virus spherically in vacuum, yes sure, SARS-CoV-2 is both more contagious and more deadly

SARS-CoV-2 virus is worse in theory, but flu disease is far worse in practice.

Also don't forget this one,

Define "flu".

So yes, we're mostly in agreement, I've already said what you just said. I also did what science does, compared the incomparable and found results unusable.
If we compare spherical viruses in vacuum, Covid wins. If we compare losses caused by diseases, flu wins hands down - because it's 100+ years older, that's a big advantage. Comparison results will vary depending on what we compare, viruses or death tolls.
Before you say "But let's only compare 2020 data!" - no shit Sherlock, you can find any pattern you want to any precision you want if you're willing to ignore enough facts. How about we only compare 1919 data, won't that be fair?


You got mixed up in last two parts of your post, I can cross-answer you with your own words. First you say this about Covid projections:

And yet we are dealing in actual facts. We don't need to actually live through it to know roughly how it would be. To pretend otherwise is just being disingenuous.

"You're saying this like you know it for a fact. You do not."
You're citing models and calling them facts. Models are approximative speculations, in this case about future events that will at some point become facts. And even then, models will remain separate entities from facts. If models are good they'll approximate facts more precisely, but still they're not facts. Furthermore, I was talking about a "what if" scenario, so there were no facts to model anyway.
Then you say this about seasonal flu and covid:

You're saying this like you know it for a fact.

You do not.

You're just being ridiculous now. You're ignoring facts that you don't want to hear, and making up ones that you like. That's just bad.

"And yet we are dealing in actual facts. We don't need to actually live through it to know roughly how it would be."
Facts are, flu mutates so much that there are dozens of strains requiring different antibodies (that's why there is no single flu vaccine). Coronavirus mutates differently, there is still one strain of SARS-CoV-2. Facts are, no reinfections were confirmed so far.

If and when facts about Coronavirus mutations change, my 100-0 score will need to be reevaluated. Until then, steer other people away from this comparison

[Breccia]

They can't even name the law correctly.

That, or by intentionally misnaming it they can claim what they're doing isn't illegal.

Good luck with that. If I see one, I'm calling 911.

[Draco-Onis]

"And yet we are dealing in actual facts. We don't need to actually live through it to know roughly how it would be."
Facts are, flu mutates so much that there are dozens of strains requiring different antibodies (that's why there is no single flu vaccine). Coronavirus mutates differently, there is still one strain of SARS-CoV-2. Facts are, no reinfections were confirmed so far.

If and when facts about Coronavirus mutations change, my 100-0 score will need to be reevaluated. Until then, steer other people away from this comparison

Actually not correct there are two known strains of COVID-19 that we know of, we simply do not know how fast this mutates or how many strains are out there yet. We also have data showing that antibodies may last only 2-3 months and reinfection has happened in several countries. As you've said we have had 100+ years to learn about the flu, this virus is so new a lot of information will take a while to verify. There are a lot of studies out there but not enough time has transpired to redo studies and peer review data you are speaking very prematurely, we should be very cautious about what we state as facts while comparing it to the flu.

[breadisfunny]

47k cases in the US today, shattering another record. DeSantis has refused a mask mandate, not to mention taking very minimal actions towards closing things down a bit (bars cant serve alcohol anymore, but thats about the extent of it), despite seeing over 9000 new cases today in Florida alone. Actually a staggering amount of stupidity coming out of the government.

we sure are showing brazil.

[Granyala]

https://twitter.com/STOPfakesGov/sta...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
Literal fucking human garbage are apparently printing out and laminating their own fake "medical exemption" cards because they can't deal with their stanky ass breath and brush their damned teeth.

Haha, clever. But do people actually fall for that?

[Poopymonster]

Haha, clever. But do people actually fall for that?

It's not a matter of "falling for it", it's legally you can't ask them to prove they are disabled. It's an honor system, and us Americans have proven time and again that we are honorless. Companies flat out can be sued and lose if you deny that someone is disabled or ask them to prove it. Most policies paraphrased are "Try to accommodate within reason but if they are being a bellend about it they can do what they want. It's cheaper than a lawsuit."

[Granyala]

It's not a matter of "falling for it", it's legally you can't ask them to prove they are disabled.

That does not make sense. You guys have to have some official documentation in order to weed out fakes.

Germany issues these, if you are "disabled enough":

I have one with 80% but no special status like "G" if you can't walk etc.

If I want to enter a business or bus w/o mask, I actually need to present the above (or some written statement by a doctor). I do not, however, need to go into detail why I cannot wear a mask, since my detailed medical status is no bus drivers or shop owners business.

[Felya]

It's not a matter of "falling for it", it's legally you can't ask them to prove they are disabled. It's an honor system, and us Americans have proven time and again that we are honorless. Companies flat out can be sued and lose if you deny that someone is disabled or ask them to prove it. Most policies paraphrased are "Try to accommodate within reason but if they are being a bellend about it they can do what they want. It's cheaper than a lawsuit."

Does that preclude questioning the authenticity of a card? If you call the cops because you believe the ID is a forgery, isn’t that different than questioning ones disability?

Edit: Can’t you just say to people... “You are attempting to avoid wearing a mask, so obviously there is a disability at play. But, I question the authenticity of the card. I believe you are disabled, I don’t believe that ID is real.”

[Poopymonster]

Does that preclude questioning the authenticity of a card? If you call the cops because you believe the ID is a forgery, isn’t that different than questioning ones disability?

Edit: Can’t you just say to people... “You are attempting to avoid wearing a mask, so obviously there is a disability at play. But, I question the authenticity of the card. I believe you are disabled, I don’t believe that ID is real.”

In order:
I believe you COULD potentially question the card but the bad press for "discriminating against the disabled" with lawsuits and costs associated with it, like the "humiliation" and "pain and suffering" it's easier and cheaper to not question it.
You could call the cops, but now you've called the police on a disabled person. Lawsuits, bad press, and costs.
You could, but again, you don't have to prove you are disabled, and we can't ask. Bad press, lawsuits, and the costs.

Note: I am not against people with disabilities doing their thing. I'm against people claiming to have a disability when they are fully able just to avoid a minor inconvenience like a mask. Especially during a goddamn pandemic.

[Granyala]

Edit: Can’t you just say to people... “You are attempting to avoid wearing a mask, so obviously there is a disability at play. But, I question the authenticity of the card. I believe you are disabled, I don’t believe that ID is real.”

That statement would be nonsensical. If you question the card, you automatically question his status along with it.

[Felya]

That statement would be nonsensical. If you question the card, you automatically question his status along with it.

No, you are questioning if the card is real. The guy could have lost the real one, wasn’t issued a card for some reason, is on a waiting list... it’s like if someone looks over 25, but hands you an ID that you have never seen before, to buy alcohol.

[Granyala]

No, you are questioning if the card is real.

If your country does not have such cards to begin with, the question is still nonsensical, since you should automatically know that it isn't real.
If your country does have such cards and you see a "look-alike", you are basically questioning the persons status of disability.

[Tuor]

Current situation in Europe.

[Gorsameth]

Current situation in Europe.

something something, Sweden, something.

[Ripster42]

It's not a matter of "falling for it", it's legally you can't ask them to prove they are disabled. It's an honor system, and us Americans have proven time and again that we are honorless. Companies flat out can be sued and lose if you deny that someone is disabled or ask them to prove it. Most policies paraphrased are "Try to accommodate within reason but if they are being a bellend about it they can do what they want. It's cheaper than a lawsuit."

Reasonable accommodation.

From title iii

The nature and cost of the action needed under this part;

§ 36.208 Direct threat.
(a) This part does not require a public accommodation to permit an individual to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of that public accommodation when that individual poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.
(b) In determining whether an individual poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others, a public accommodation must make an individualized assessment, based on reasonable judgment that relies on current medical knowledge or on the best available objective evidence, to ascertain: The nature, duration, and severity of the risk; the probability that the potential injury will actually occur; and whether reasonable modifications of policies, practices, or procedures or the provision of auxiliary aids or services will mitigate the risk.

The "nature and cost" is exposing yourself to a "direct threat" (aka, potentially fatal disease). Those people can get fucked. The stores I hear these stories from inevitable offer to do their shopping and bring their purchases to them. You know, "reasonable modifications of policies, practices, or procedures or the provision of auxiliary aids or services will mitigate the risk."

- - - Updated - - -

That does not make sense. You guys have to have some official documentation in order to weed out fakes.

We have something like that in place for parking, but that's about it. Our law, in fact, prevents them from even asking for something like that.

[Yunru]

Hah the US now looks much better:
2,51 mio infected / 771 thousand cured / 127 thousand dead

And this is overall. The research is just for 1 province. so you can see China got hit much harder than reported.

[breadisfunny]

Hah the US now looks much better:
2,51 mio infected / 771 thousand cured / 127 thousand dead

And this is overall. The research is just for 1 province. so you can see China got hit much harder than reported.

we're still hot on their heels.

[Forogil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdcHDxbYKfw

Hah the US now looks much better:
2,51 mio infected / 771 thousand cured / 127 thousand dead

And this is overall. The research is just for 1 province. so you can see China got hit much harder than reported.

If that propaganda channel is telling the truth.

And I find that unlikely - the larger the outbreak the harder it is to get back under control, and we know that it stopped spreading in China. Basically a country can no longer hide a large outbreak even with the limited amount of openness in China.

I simply don't trust any propaganda - Chinese or from other nations; pro-CCP or anti-CCP.

[bmjclark]

9500 cases out of Florida. Another new record.