[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Rhlor]

Trust me Hellspawn, it had nothing good to do about the Night elves. The revelations about the Legion, the world soul its total defeat, curing of arcane addiction and return of Suramar, the vindication of Illidan and the demon hunters are mammoth events that the night elves could change greatly over, the things that have dominated all of them for 10,000 years, shaped their thinking, their reason for living, what they do etc, their guilt, their defining quest of the last 10k years over and this isn't sufficient to change a race that was dominated by this?

No Hellspawn, night elves are only changing now because of the backlash from players due tp ripping them apart yet again, for the umpteenth time in yet again a cruel and dismissive manner and they went too far - fans are like we are tired, been beat on our fave race for too long.

They didnt care Jack about them, trust me if they did, Suramar would not have gone horde and night elves would not have lost like that and would also have played a much larger role in the aftermath at BFA's start and also in the journey into Naz'jatar. Tyrande and co would not be a side stage to the main drama of Sylvanas, Sadfang, Baine and MAnduin. Jaina and Nathanos sidekicks

We are getting attention because night elf players got so fed up of it and showed they cared, remember how they did nothing on them for 8.0, everything that happened to them was plot device for Sylvanas, MAnduin and the war, they didnt even figure like they were trash, disposable plot devices for the true favourites.

The forum outcry was huge, and for once the horde fans supported, they'd gone too far with the night elves.

So they rushed Darkshore forward and told us this was the compensation...wtf? All the crap, giving them the biggest shit show for this warfront ? Compensation? Wtf !. A meaningless battle having to rely on super powers while all their existing assets like the Well of Eternity and World Trees remained unused? There millennia of arcane, nature and martial prowess having a chance to be showed off, instead this.

Ofc we were7nt happy, and we won't be happy until they take the race seriously instead of promoting Steve Danuser's favourites, they are suppose to care about the franchise , all the races, night elves are huge and popular race, they've got a lot of uniqueness and well put together lore, it is point blank pushing your favourites if you ignore making full use of a well loved and exciting group like the night elves, and we can see it.

They have no good reason any longer to play down the night elves, the horde is hugely popular in the elder game, over the alliance a complete reversal of classic in 2004. It's the alliance that actually needs real love now, and yet, thanks, Sylvanas, Bwonsamdi, etc all continue, but one change has come, Tyrande is now having the role she was twice denied in Legion over her home city and Order's most holy site, when she was cut from the Broken shore quest line and written over to I create both Legion presence and Class Order activity, yet they had no problem running 3 expansions in a row focused on horde, but 3 night elf zones and its suddenly too much?

So even in the night elf expansion, the night elf is cut and then historic holy capital Suramar , origin city of most playable night elves'legacy is ignored and its given to the horde,..

Come on the bias is strong! and the only thing shifting it is players showing it matters to them.

- - - Updated - - -


I do, but that's irrelevant, we saw them do Darnassus after 10k years and that was before the Shen'dralar joined them with the arcane.. the Shen'dralar, the kaldorei empire's most revered arcansist who engineered the wonders of the age often in secret so the Queen took full credit.

Do you think they are going to build rural homes in a cityscape? I mean they may do that, but I'll be disappointed for sure, why not design your best for the night elves? You've already shown how exquisite night elf architecture is in those Zin'Azshark and Suramar designs, but when it comes to the night elves capital you just ditch it only to give rural village style buildings?

That's like going to the trolls and saying g, hey, those bamboo huts of Sen'Jin village, that's what we are gonna use for the troll capital, because it is troll architecture, we are going to ignore that the likes of Zul'Gurub architecture, Zul'drak architecture, Zul'Aman architecture, Dazar'alor architecture and Atal'dazar architecture are all troll too.

But Sen'jin village in Durotar is where the Darkspears live so that's what we are going to use for their city.

Do you think I would be fine with Auberdine architecture used for a new night elf city, when Night elves have Zin'Azshari, Suramar, Eldre'thalas, Nar'thalas, Tel'anor and Darnassus to their racial city scape??
Surely I would continue to use Auberdine type building for villages and some forest rural locales, and use better schemes for an actual city.

The shen'dralar who joined the night elves are a small group, you can't expect them to be the ones running the night elf culture now.

did you ever visit Echo Isles ?? that's the darkspear capital and looks different than dazaralor! why? Because darkspears are a different type of trolls with their own unique culture.

The Kaldorei have their unique culture after 10,000 years, so their architecture and lifestyle is different from the Shaldorei.

Shendrelars deserve representation. I always agreed with that. A district with a mage tower is what I think is fine for them.

[Mace]

Those guys are the large minority... I really don't see the large majority doing something much diferent then Darnassus. However, yes, there should be some fancy buildings done by them aswell.

We don't know the numbers, I don't think it matters how many there are.

usually one architect designs a city, and it doesn't take everyone to build it. Throw in magic both arcane and nature, with ancient trees also wielding both and a handful can orchestrate great things.

Also they are not that small, probably about 100 to 500 survived Eldre'thalas, now if you add the Darnassians that returned to the arcane, and the new novices - the numbers would be much larger now, each Highborne seemed to be surrounded by classes of students in cata - the night elven arcane potential amongst the Darnassus unable to be used now is, - the point is if they could build Darnasssus without arcane magic, imagine what they can now with it, and with the group that designed and executed many of the wonders of the Kaldorei empire in tow.

If they going to settle in Hyjal, has some people are hitting for, you could be damn sure i don't see them building any sort of sofisticated building near Nordrassil... Just because its their most sacrated place.

I've been hitting for Hyjal. what is wrong with sophisticated buidings and elegant design? Night elves love beauty, do you not realise the reasons druids love nature so much is that night elven love for beauty is focused primarily on the wonder of nature, it seems irrelevant to drab yourself in rich garments or build fancy buildings when they just can't compare to the extravagant wealth and beauty of nature - hence why he likes to live in it.

That's not a cup of tea for elves, they will build beautifully and intricately, cos it' their nature and style, the night elves have shown this via the things they built. And they have the time to build it rigiht. This is not a war campign where an ancient of lore sets root to provide a base camp for a campaign that will get up and walk away later. This is a permanent dwelling place, and Hyjal has had this before if you did not notice the pre-sundering architecture type ruins there from WC3

sophisticated buildings are not mutually exclusive with any of the night elves. or do you think the priests would prefer a hut for their temple? (just in case you thought it was only Highborne who cared for beautiful buildings) or the warriors who had that beautiful terrace would prefer a tree instead?/

Do i need to repeat myself? Those places are no longer Kaldorei...

And this is the ignorance that pervades and inspired this topic. Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

Those places are ALL kaldorei, kaldorei built, kaldorei architecture , kaldorei lore. So to are the Nightborne, they are a Kaldorei sub-race. You are arguing as if we are requesting blood elf, forsaken or draenei architecture for night elves, this is beyond stupid now.

If blizzard give pre-sundering architecture or bamboo thatched huts of straw and sticks for night elf cities, that's entirely up to them. I've made my point and shown quite clearly that it can be and is much better to be beautiful and cool. Like this. Pre-sundering NIGHT ELVEN beautiful architecture interwoven with nature on a grand scale.


This is what you do for a night elf city. Not Auberdine - that's a night elf village/outpost.

... Or... They could actually rebuild Darnassus, with some updates reflecting the other factions that rejoined NElfs, and that includes some sort of Gilnean architecture aswell.

You could, but tha't my least desired option.

Option 1: New city, - another art wonder from blizzard for night elves
Option 2: Share Suramar, it's still a wonder and beauty
Option 3: Re-design Eldre'thalas into a wonder and use that
Option 4: Bring Darnassus back
Option 5: A larger Auberdeine (
Option 6: Live in the druid dream trees of Darkshire or Hinterlands (((
Option 7: Share with worgen in Gilneas or humans in Stormwind - effectively killing night elf style for night elves despite having so much of it available , but no, it's horde now, so you get Gilneas or Stormwind - humans have amazing potential ((((((((((

[Rhlor]

"These are my people, my lands."
"And your enemies would use that against you."

Really like that parallel there, bringing that up just after Teldrassil.

Everything I've seen of this book indicates we've got a good author on our hands. And yeah, Nordrassil makes an understandable forward base for their hunting of Sylvanas. Darkshore may be retaken, but it's also burned, blighted, cataclysmed, and just awful.

I like her she is the same one who made the short story of lorthemar and thalyssra

[Mace]

As I think on it, during the intervening 10,000+ years of the Long Vigil the Night Elves probably didn't actually need a major capitol or metropolitan area. They had lost a goodly number of their population in the War of the Ancients and the Sundering - including casualties of war, those Highborne who followed Azshara and became the Naga, and then again those Highborne who followed Dath'remar and were exiled to go on to become the High Elves. Finally the Druids entered into their long slumber to commune with and tend to the Emerald Dream, leaving only the remaining Sentinels and laity as active. The small villages like Nighthaven and Auberdine that dotted the slopes of Hyjal, Darkshore, and Felwood were probably sufficient to the remaining Night Elven population.

Darnassus was built in part due to the fact that with the closure of the Third War the Long Vigil had ended and an appreciable portion of the Night Elven population, the various Druidic orders, had returned. The Night Elves found themselves in need of a population center that could hold the reunited families and loved ones returning to the fold from the Barrow Dens.

Not only did they not really need, the long Vigil period was a military one of watching, guarding and protecting - druids were helping heal nature across the world by guiding the evolution of the world in the dream alongside the green flight

It fell to the mostly female Order of Elune to hunt down Satyr, rogue demons, magic using rebel elves and any sentients coming near the Well of Eternity. They were very dedicated to their task, bearing the responsibility of the Legion's visitation and near destruction of the world in the ensuing sundering, they felt it there duty and life to prioritise this.

They weren't doing civilization, no it was isolation, watch, guard, hunt, fight - and they were faithful. once the Legion returns, the long vigil ends, need to suppress and ban arcane magic ends, need to prohibit Highborne ends, need to pause civilization ends.


It's no longer about guarding the well or preventing the legion's return, now it's time to build up, get strong, ensure a future, so a lot of things from 10k years return with civilization. this is why we see pre-sundering architecture style buildings in Darnassus this is how they build things when they do cities, .

However it's more than just a place to hold the population of druid families. Druids making up only about 1/3 of their population anyway. Remember Fandral Staghelm's initiatives, the night elves must come out of isolation and lead the world by example. There are many other reasons a city is needed.

1. No need not to have one. The lack of cities was due primarily to the lifestyle the Long VIgil mission demanded. Without it, there is no need for endless patrols, constant military watch of a whole race, avoiding or not caring about building families and a future - it was all about, this is our mess, we must guard and sort it out.

2. Now, with declining populations, many losses, strong other races including unfriendly ones, two things emerge, they need more numbers, so family etc which means carving out and planning for a future from the perspective of a people, something previously not necessary

3. Allies. Out of isolation now, many things open up, you need government, interntional affairs, ports open to visitors

4. there is also our place in the world you now have to think about, you're no longer on a solitary single minded mission as a race, there is an economy, trade, provisions

5. Population centres are now necessary, this means tradesmen, craftsmen on scales that you didn't need during the Long Vigil, not just to produce babies and families, industry (of sorts) . People need a place they can work together in larger numbers. too. Naturally this means larger more complex structures, they are not a novice race, they've done this sort of thing to grand level, Darnassus is a first attempt in 10,000 years and that's without using arcane magic. They build the temples, the Gazeebos the Warriors terrace - it shows that they are a race that still appreciates and creates beauty also in architecture and stone, not just in forestry.

6. Not all night elves would have loved or liked living in the forest. This is just law of averages You can love nature but not prefer to live in it. Especially a people who have known city life and had circumstances force them into forest life. Now some would love it and prefer it. others would endure it as part of the job and penalty, part of the mission as necessary to fulfil. Once that mission ends, there will be night elves who would prefer a city and want to rebuild that life.

We have to remember a lot of these are 10k year old people, and even with new ones around, the new circumstances produce new needs.

7. Arcane magic - much the mis-understood issue amongst night elves. Having to ban the arcane did not remove the talent for it or the desire for it, the danger of brining the legion and the responsibility for it kept those that stayed with the kaldorei in check, however once that is gone they are free to puruse this, indeed even the home ban is lifted not to long after on the Highborne. Night elves are the only elf group that doesn't biologically change - which means the same intense arcane aptitude and affinity/talent during the pre-sundering still exists. Without a need to suppress arcane magic, inevitably a sizeable number of night elves would be bored of forest living and want to explore this passion of theirs once more.

In the current era, they have the hindsight of the past, ofc, whiles phobias may have held a few back even after the events of Wolfheart and Cataclysm, the curing of addiction and the understanding of it now as well as the revelations of the purpose of the Legion was the world soul and not the magic, would significantly change a lot of mentalities and free the people of phobias. A healthy respect would remain.

This translates to more night elves picking up the arcane - it doesn't mean hating nature or rejecting nature, there's would be an arcane/nature garden paradise amongst beautifully wrought wonders, but they will explore their gift and appreciate their teachers. However they will no longer have the entire society ever swayed by the wonders of the arcane like in the past, knowing where that leads and it just not been as impressive the second time round - the novelty has worn off.

Those truly talented in it will likely be the main ones picking up studies in it, and while naturally all night elves can wield it, it wont be like the pre-sundering era where everyone learnt it, it is likely only those who choose to follow it as a many pursuit will choose to learn it. I think this si a distinction between elves and humans, well at least night elves, all are gifted with the arcane capability, though not all are talented enough to make Mages or Moonguard out of.

Arcane usage requires collaboration, the night elves have entire structures for this, very advanced and well placed, and they will be rebuilt to accommodate. You will see new academies, that will likely now also extend to nature magic, that has a level of respect that was absent in pre-sundering times after being developed to a whole nother level by Malfurion and the druids over the Long Vigil period.

And so you will have urban communities arise, even though the forest ones will remain, it would be a multicultural affair in cities where Highborne, priests and the odd druids( don't forget druids don't do cities) will live side by side. Although in the future I fully expect all Highborne towns and cities like happened in pre-sundering times (e.g. Eldre'thalas and Nar'thalas are All Highborne cities, while Suramar and Zin'Azshari are not - you might know this but many don't - thinking all night elf civilization was exclusively Highborne and what we called the night elves were forest folk on the fringe of societies hidden in forests - yes people actually don't know the lore. That is why I made the other topic..).


there are many reasons for a city, the biggest mis-conception I'm finding is people who think night elves having a city and an amazing one at that, is somehow against their culture or their purpose. Night elves don't do cities they argue - well that's clearly no true. And the Long vigil is the excuse they use, failing to understand the reason behind it and it's goal.

it all boils down to identity, the night elf identify was made clear by the developers and it is showing how they've progressed the race. The pre-sundering era is not a forgotten relic of the past, no longer night elven or relevant to the night elves, it is part of the night elves and shows a core and key part of them, we see much of what the night elves had and did in that era returning when they come out of isolation and start using magic. But we see them develop the arcane and nature duality, we have arcane groups (I'm no longer just talking about the Darnassians btw, all night elves that is) and more.

You see, to understand why the night elves must have this, you have to realise why and how they had it in the first place. AT their core their are arcane attuned beings, benevolent, and gracious. out of their benevolence comes the love for life, which includes nature the fullest expression of it, grace belies their beauty and love of it, whether in their actual body/forms, or in nature or in the things they craft and build - elegant shapely - it's a defining directive and is why new buildings built for cities in theory would be beautifully crafted just like they are in the bigger cities of old. Saturated and filled with the Well of Eternity, made from the arcane, they also have a disposition for it and love for it.

These 3 go hand in hand - it is where the other elves get it from but they don't seem to have the complete picture, the Thalassians are broken Highborne (weakened by the process of exiling, and the Nightborne, while a night elven group are distorted from the over addiction of the Nightwell - but that's okay, neither groups were made to be "the complete elf picture", it was the Kaldorei that were. The Thalassians were created to be human bodies, the Nightborne to show a unique story of kaldoerei pre-sundering civilization going forward into the presence in the expansion that explores a lot more about the night elves, their origin and their character, as well as their history - for those who don't like reading.

hence any lover of the heart of the race, will obviously love to see both nature and arcane and other things. There is a reason why some night elves got bored of nature lifestyle, because their interest was elsewhere. It didn't mean they didn't like nature, but simply existing in its wonder alone was insufficient and they required more. The reason is because the race has this love in them, it has this characteristic, so they will always have night elves amongst them who go this route.

The reason this doesn't happen in the long vigil is because using the Arcane is believed to bring the demons back and must be banned, but these guys are still arcane talented, still love and handle their arcane waters, making Moonwells, guarding the Well, etc, the talent cannot be used, unfortunately for those who are naturals at it. This I why everyone does forest. so naturally when Long Vigil ends, and ban ends, guess what, we will see a certain number of night elves and in growing numbers return to the arcane and return to it well.

Now, if you understand why the society got so arcane obsessed in the first place, you would realise that curently this will not happen again. The novelty has worn off, there is no charismatic larcane leader like Queen Azshara who's excellence and wonder works (mostly engineered by the Shen'dralar) were a huge cause, also the night elves know the value and need for abalance. As great as the arcane is, with all its life enhancing properties and benefits and conveniences, without balance they themselves will become addicted and distorted - and that has a stigma to it. They will watch themselves, and they will not all flock over to the arcane like before.

They will grow into full equilibrium if given the chance. This is what the developes intended for them, to have the best parts of the Dark elves and the best parts of the Wood elves in them. This is why they are called night elves - not dark elves, not wood elves, not forest elves. And the name Kaldorei is children of the stars, and the magic of the stars I linked to the arcane - and mage, priest and druid alike can all wield a measure of it.

This is evidence it is throughout the race. The purple skin is from the well , the silver eyes is from the internal arcane power - the night elf itself is arcane evidence. Nature evidence is now the amber eyes, and the green hair (I'm guessing), the new vines are a symbol of nature love. It remains to be seen if they would add additional arcane features to distinguish Highborne customisations.. we shall see

[Tuor]

We don't know the numbers, I don't think it matters how many there are.

This says all about how biassed you are to magic, the question still stands, Do you think the new city will be donne just by magic users?

usually one architect designs a city, and it doesn't take everyone to build it.

Wrong, very few architects had the luck to design an entire city, and when that happens, the work is donne by an architect studio, so several diferent architects working on the same project.

Throw in magic both arcane and nature, with ancient trees also wielding both and a handful can orchestrate great things.

The way you speak is closer to cutting ancient trees then use them.

Also they are not that small, probably about 100 to 500 survived Eldre'thalas,

Yet your desire is an entire city to be themed after... The large minority. All about the minority... Nothing about the large majority.

now if you add the Darnassians that returned to the arcane, and the new novices - the numbers would be much larger now, each Highborne seemed to be surrounded by classes of students in cata - the night elven arcane potential amongst the Darnassus unable to be used now is, - the point is if they could build Darnasssus without arcane magic, imagine what they can now with it, and with the group that designed and executed many of the wonders of the Kaldorei empire in tow.

You just confirmed what i said before... All about the minority, nothing about the majority.

I've been hitting for Hyjal. what is wrong with sophisticated buidings and elegant design? Night elves love beauty, do you not realise the reasons druids love nature so much is that night elven love for beauty is focused primarily on the wonder of nature, it seems irrelevant to drab yourself in rich garments or build fancy buildings when they just can't compare to the extravagant wealth and beauty of nature - hence why he likes to live in it.

That is why NElfs didn't built any city for a long, long time ''when they just can't compare to the extravagant wealth and beauty of nature''. They actually prefered to live in untoched nature rather then building structures.

That's not a cup of tea for elves, they will build beautifully and intricately, cos it' their nature and style, the night elves have shown this via the things they built. And they have the time to build it rigiht. This is not a war campign where an ancient of lore sets root to provide a base camp for a campaign that will get up and walk away later. This is a permanent dwelling place, and Hyjal has had this before if you did not notice the pre-sundering architecture type ruins there from WC3

Stuctures they obviously left after the sundering, has the NElfs, were mostly non-highborne.

sophisticated buildings are not mutually exclusive with any of the night elves. or do you think the priests would prefer a hut for their temple? (just in case you thought it was only Highborne who cared for beautiful buildings) or the warriors who had that beautiful terrace would prefer a tree instead?/

Warriors did lived in trees, has the terrace itself didn't had a single house in it.

And this is the ignorance that pervades and inspired this topic. Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

Those places are ALL kaldorei, kaldorei built, kaldorei architecture , kaldorei lore. So to are the Nightborne, they are a Kaldorei sub-race. You are arguing as if we are requesting blood elf, forsaken or draenei architecture for night elves, this is beyond stupid now.

They WERE kaldorei, they no longer are, all of those races splited from the Kaldorei, and they started spliting from Kaldorei 10k years ago.
Since most buildings don't survive more then 100 years, and they actually require maintenance, i would say, nothing in those cities you claim that are still Kaldorei, are original... Only the ruins reflect the true pre-sundering architecture of Kaldorei.

If blizzard give pre-sundering architecture or bamboo thatched huts of straw and sticks for night elf cities, that's entirely up to them. I've made my point and shown quite clearly that it can be and is much better to be beautiful and cool. Like this. Pre-sundering NIGHT ELVEN beautiful architecture interwoven with nature on a grand scale.
[IMG]https://www.argentarchives.org/files/gallery_image/Winterflows_Courtyard_01.jpg

You speak has if stuff has stopped in time, why not something new. Pre-sundering was 10k years ago, why do you think there are still architects doing that kind of stuff? Also, has i already said a little above, not even Suramar has an original pre-sundering style, the buildings had to be 10k years old... Look at the pyramids in Egypt, do you think any building can last that long?

This is what you do for a night elf city. Not Auberdine - that's a night elf village/outpost.

Here i actually agree.

You could, but tha't my least desired option.

Option 1: New city, - another art wonder from blizzard for night elves
Option 2: Share Suramar, it's still a wonder and beauty
Option 3: Re-design Eldre'thalas into a wonder and use that
Option 4: Bring Darnassus back
Option 5: A larger Auberdeine (
Option 6: Live in the druid dream trees of Darkshire or Hinterlands (((
Option 7: Share with worgen in Gilneas or humans in Stormwind - effectively killing night elf style for night elves despite having so much of it available , but no, it's horde now, so you get Gilneas or Stormwind - humans have amazing potential ((((((((((

I will go with Option 8: Bring the wholle Teldrassil back and rebuild Darnassus there in fashion that includes all the faction within NElf society, including Worgen (if they can't retake Gilneas).

[Pandragon]

Help me out. How does this say the Night Elves are moving to Nordrassil? It only says Tyrande and Malfurion went there. It's a place for druids, and he is a druid, and his wife went with him. It doesn't say all of the Night Elves went there.

[Mace]

The shen'dralar who joined the night elves are a small group, you can't expect them to be the ones running the night elf culture now.

You don't have to be "running" the night elves to build their buildings. Do architects and builders also run the cities and towns? Even if they're world renowned? They don't have to be large.

did you ever visit Echo Isles ?? that's the darkspear capital and looks different than dazaralor! why? Because darkspears are a different type of trolls with their own unique culture.

You're missing the parallel of Sen'jin village.. Sen'jin village is to Darksperas, what Auberdine is to Darnassians - you don't use that for cities.

And I'm not advocating that the new night elf city be identical to Suramar. Every night elf city they've designed looks different.. run through the list in your mind. Wait, in fact I'll just list them

1. Darnassus
2. Suramar
3. Zin'Azsahri
4. Eldre'thalas
5. Vash'jir
6. Nar'thalas

The last two are very broken ruins, but you can already see they're all different, .. however Zin'Azshari seems to be the pristine model for most night elf cities. It would appear Suramar and Eldre'thalas are exceptions. Even the buildings of Darnassus are based more on the Zin'Azsahri style.

Also worth noting, is while Echo isles is different from Dazar'alor, notice how it is based on Zul'Gurub, and notice how Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman, Zul'Drak, and Dazar'alor all have a similar feel to them, while from different troll groups ,they're all trolls.

Why do you think Silvermoon and Darnassus feel like they have a similarity to Suramar? It's from the elf racial group, however Silvermoon is a bit more different from Suramar than Darnassus is - showing a greater distinctiveness for the Thalassian group, but it's still elven. Yet it's amazing how so many horde fans here completely ignore the Darnassus and Suramar similarities in their eagerness to dissociate the very night elven Nightborne from the actual Kaldorei their cities and their entire culture are ENTIRELY based on, not even partly. And it is the Sin'dorei that share similarities to them, not the other way round., being the derivative culture group.

Shendrelars deserve representation. I always agreed with that. A district with a mage tower is what I think is fine for them.

You confuse having a district with architectural style. You don't need to vary the architectural style totally for a district, the district for Shen'dralar and the other Highborne ( you keep forgetting that they now teach many new and returned Highborne from amongst the Darnassians). All you need do is a minor variation of style like we see in Suramar's Elite section of the city versus the Commons area vs the Palace area.

The architectural style would be determined by the city designer and planner, Elves seem to use magic and to rapidly build cities,. It would make sense that the Shen'dralar are designing the whole city, not just their own quadrant. They would design the temple also, the warrior terraces, and other places, it is also likely they will use arcane magic in tandem with the nature woven by Ancients or NElf druids or both, and create the sort of wonder city beautifully laid out and designed.

These are elves, they are highly intelligent elves.. all of them,, they built a global civilization, they're not going to adhoc build a city. They plan, they design, then they magic away. It's not going to be disparate buildings of varying architecture. this would happen if you ran out of resources or you couldn't complete everything like that or.. if your city over time grew, but the newer areas were built by poorer people with less means or in the case of night elves, the builders of the original city don't do the new stuff, so people build their simple huts and structures, sort of like a shanty town. This is unlikely for night elves. They're not humans.

The druids are not going to be living in the city, they would live in the forest or park areas within the cities under trees most likely and in barrow dens, they have a very specific duty that they continue, the same as in the Long vigil. Now some may live in Nordrassil tree itself on a Hyjal city, but this si unlikely, you are more likely to see them in the same bases we see in Hyjal zone now, for example the place where we helped Avianna - those places will remain.

But notice how the druids never live in large gatherings, they don't adopt many trees either for homes, they seem to prefer things left in their natural state, and if they add to it as unobtrusive as ever. This fits them loving the wild and roaming in it to protect and restore it or sleeping in the dream in caves..

now the families might move to the barrow dens, or the druid when about to sleep might move to a city nearby if they have family living there - I don't see why they would have difficulty sleeping in a home in the city right under Nordrassil.. but this won't be every druid , just those around that are I'm sure they are spread over many forests, with groups in charge of certain areas and functions based on the druid club - "of claw" "of branch" "of talon" "of the wild" etc.

- - - Updated - - -

Help me out. How does this say the Night Elves are moving to Nordrassil? It only says Tyrande and Malfurion went there. It's a place for druids, and he is a druid, and his wife went with him. It doesn't say all of the Night Elves went there.

It doesn't .. my first response to him was that this doesn't mean they are moving to Nordrassil.. it doesn't.

But he's excited and it's a catchier head line.

[Claymore]

So that means they are going to update the miserable single Inn where Ysera still parks her ass in 2 or 3 expansions?

That sounds awesome! Boy, i can't wait!!

---

I really should just stop to read any lore in this game. BFA has killed the last traces that remained freom WC3...not that WC3 was stellar, but it was appropriately good. Especially the base game, TFT suffered a lot from the same issues the current "lore" has with non-existant power-levels and characters that believe in absolutely nothing.

Fact is: Anduin did not help the Night Elves at ANY point in BFA. Never. A core race of his "Alliance" suffers genocide and instead of helping them he choses to lead an assault against Zandalar for NOTHING.

I would really ask all of you to think about BoD for a moment. Anduin's plan there was to sail in and detonate the bombs that had been laying there for MONTHS - whcih means the Zandalari fleet, which was responsible for the Horde even being able to attack Kul'Tiras in the first place - could have been sank much, much sooner. But why do so, when you can watch the Horde pinning parents to the walls in Brennadam, am i right?

But who cares about a few thousand dead humans who could have easily been saved! They were fat anyway, right?

So after your brain somehow comes around to accept this miserable start of the entire "thing"....you notice that all what the Alliance had planned after detonating the bombs was to march up to the King's throne - killing as few Zandalari as possible - and politely ask him to surrender.

THAT was the plan. Now, if you are more than 3 years old you would probably ask now "And what is the plan if the King does not surrender?". Yeah. That's a freakingly good question right there! And Master Anduin would answer you with "We have to place our hopes in the light that Rastakhan will not force our hands!". Which sounds like an AWESOME Plan right there. Especially if "forcing our hands" means that after you kill him...you simply run away.

BoD was the most stupid "battle" ever in Warcraft. I mean it. Everything about it was stupid. It was completely forced for the sake of advancing the Horde story. There was ZERO Alliance agenda in any of this. Z-E-R-O. And the Alliance is supposed to have gone out of their way to get this?!

And now, put it back into context. Anduin chose to persue this miserable shitshow of NOTHING-as-a-Plan over helping the Night Elves.

The rest of the Alliance did so, too. Genn only helped for personal reasons, not because of Alliance BS.

Having Anduin even mention the word "Alliance" is a spit in the face at this point. In fact, having anybody at Blizzard mentioning the "Alliance" is.

This franchise is doomed.

This is, sadly, all absolutely true.

Fact is, BFA is the expansion where Blizzard's writers stopped writing for the Alliance entirely, and instead wrote for the Horde exclusively. Only after they decided how they wanted the Horde story points to play out, did they do a half-assed job of writing backwards to try and shoehorn the Alliance into whatever situations needed to tell the Horde's story the WAY they wanted to tell it.

There's absolutely no logic, no sense of progression, no sense of RELEVANCE in any of the Alliance story this expansion. As much as I'll shit on Warlords of Draenor's "time-travel" bullshit, BFA is far and away the most unforgivable example of piss-poor writing in the Warcraft series to date. It is abundantly clear that nobody writing for BFA is familiar with the Warcraft universe, beyond maybe a few cursory glances at a few wikipedia pages. I genuinely fear they've done irreparable harm to the franchise. Absolutely nothing in the game universe has any sort of weight or meaning anymore, they directly contradicted their own lore countless times over this expansion...

Honestly, they need someone with a *VISION* for the series. Unfortunately, I think that vision left with Chris Metzen. He was always a little too Thrall-centric, I think, but it was clear he understand and cared for the fiction.

[united]

Is this entire book gonna be leaked before it’s released or what

[Mace]

This says all about how biassed you are to magic, the question still stands, Do you think the new city will be donne just by magic users?

I have precedence for this, this is how they built their cities in the past, with arcane and nature magic users. Again, you live in world with advanced urbanisation, you know an intelligent civilization builds things.

Cities are planned and built by a few people you know. the main architect and his team, then all the various companies hired in. Those that do construction, those that do decoration etc.

If you've ever been to Asia, arab and former Soviet states, , the fad for the last few decades, ever since Dubai was built like that has been building cities. . These aren't cities that are grown from towns and populated over time, they are actually built to spec, either at once or in places like Seoul and Hong Kong, when massive economic burst happened and the money was flying in, and the skyscrapers went up as economic growth exploded.

In wow, the elves use magic to build their cities, it's faster, more efficient, and they are able to do wonders the eye has never seen, you know, because it is magic. WotA tells us that the cities were built by Highborne using arcane magic and Ancients using nature magic. Suramar, Zin'Azshari and others. So you see, not all cities are like Stormwind or London, slowly grown over the decades and centuries as more people moved there and the influence of the British Empire grew, industrialisation developed etc.

So yeh, I don't see why the Shen'dralar and ancients won't do the same here, and I see no reason why Night elves won't want well designed temples and homes.

- - - Updated - - -

Is this entire book gonna be leaked before it’s released or what

Be thankful the same debacle that was the Illidan novel leak , hsn't happened here yet.. it ruined nd changed the destiny of Illidan forever.

still the majority of the critics NEVER read the full story, not once, yet they wrote tons in angry responses of their idol changing and not once attempted to understand the context they were given. All because one chap leaked it, and they didn't like the end result of the book told outright without the proper context that built up to it.

Be grateful this isn't happening again here.

[Tuor]

I have precedence for this, this is how they built their cities in the past, with arcane and nature magic users. Again, you live in world with advanced urbanisation, you know an intelligent civilization builds things.

That means you think Darnassians are dum, well, because they only managed to build Darnassus, right?

Cities are planned and built by a few people you know. the main architect and his team, then all the various companies hired in. Those that do construction, those that do decoration etc.

Actually cities are built by a lot of people, during a lot of time.
Do you think my hometown was designed by a single guy?

If you've ever been to Asia, arab and former Soviet states, , the fad for the last few decades, ever since Dubai was built like that has been building cities. . These aren't cities that are grown from towns and populated over time, they are actually built to spec, either at once or in places like Seoul and Hong Kong, when massive economic burst happened and the money was flying in, and the skyscrapers went up as economic growth exploded.

Obviously, built by SEVERAL diferent architects. The normal is having an architect designing a single building, amnd even for most of buildings, it actually requires SEVERAL architects working on the same project.

In wow, the elves use magic to build their cities,

The ones we speaking hate magic for Good's sake. Allowing it, its not the same has enjoying it.

So yeh, I don't see why the Shen'dralar and ancients won't do the same here, and I see no reason why Night elves won't want well designed temples and homes.

Guess what, NElfs already have that kind of people with them, the ones who builded Darnassus, THE ONES THEY ACTUALLY TRUST.

They don't like magic, they don't trust magic users, why should they trust them to built them a new city?

And again, why should the citty be just about Highborne and not about THE MAJORITY of their population, or, taking in consideration other factions that united with NElfs?

[Rhlor]

You don't have to be "running" the night elves to build their buildings. Do architects and builders also run the cities and towns? Even if they're world renowned? They don't have to be large.


You're missing the parallel of Sen'jin village.. Sen'jin village is to Darksperas, what Auberdine is to Darnassians - you don't use that for cities.

And I'm not advocating that the new night elf city be identical to Suramar. Every night elf city they've designed looks different.. run through the list in your mind. Wait, in fact I'll just list them

1. Darnassus
2. Suramar
3. Zin'Azsahri
4. Eldre'thalas
5. Vash'jir
6. Nar'thalas

The last two are very broken ruins, but you can already see they're all different, .. however Zin'Azshari seems to be the pristine model for most night elf cities. It would appear Suramar and Eldre'thalas are exceptions. Even the buildings of Darnassus are based more on the Zin'Azsahri style.

Also worth noting, is while Echo isles is different from Dazar'alor, notice how it is based on Zul'Gurub, and notice how Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman, Zul'Drak, and Dazar'alor all have a similar feel to them, while from different troll groups ,they're all trolls.

Why do you think Silvermoon and Darnassus feel like they have a similarity to Suramar? It's from the elf racial group, however Silvermoon is a bit more different from Suramar than Darnassus is - showing a greater distinctiveness for the Thalassian group, but it's still elven. Yet it's amazing how so many horde fans here completely ignore the Darnassus and Suramar similarities in their eagerness to dissociate the very night elven Nightborne from the actual Kaldorei their cities and their entire culture are ENTIRELY based on, not even partly. And it is the Sin'dorei that share similarities to them, not the other way round., being the derivative culture group.



You confuse having a district with architectural style. You don't need to vary the architectural style totally for a district, the district for Shen'dralar and the other Highborne ( you keep forgetting that they now teach many new and returned Highborne from amongst the Darnassians). All you need do is a minor variation of style like we see in Suramar's Elite section of the city versus the Commons area vs the Palace area.

The architectural style would be determined by the city designer and planner, Elves seem to use magic and to rapidly build cities,. It would make sense that the Shen'dralar are designing the whole city, not just their own quadrant. They would design the temple also, the warrior terraces, and other places, it is also likely they will use arcane magic in tandem with the nature woven by Ancients or NElf druids or both, and create the sort of wonder city beautifully laid out and designed.

These are elves, they are highly intelligent elves.. all of them,, they built a global civilization, they're not going to adhoc build a city. They plan, they design, then they magic away. It's not going to be disparate buildings of varying architecture. this would happen if you ran out of resources or you couldn't complete everything like that or.. if your city over time grew, but the newer areas were built by poorer people with less means or in the case of night elves, the builders of the original city don't do the new stuff, so people build their simple huts and structures, sort of like a shanty town. This is unlikely for night elves. They're not humans.

The druids are not going to be living in the city, they would live in the forest or park areas within the cities under trees most likely and in barrow dens, they have a very specific duty that they continue, the same as in the Long vigil. Now some may live in Nordrassil tree itself on a Hyjal city, but this si unlikely, you are more likely to see them in the same bases we see in Hyjal zone now, for example the place where we helped Avianna - those places will remain.

But notice how the druids never live in large gatherings, they don't adopt many trees either for homes, they seem to prefer things left in their natural state, and if they add to it as unobtrusive as ever. This fits them loving the wild and roaming in it to protect and restore it or sleeping in the dream in caves..

now the families might move to the barrow dens, or the druid when about to sleep might move to a city nearby if they have family living there - I don't see why they would have difficulty sleeping in a home in the city right under Nordrassil.. but this won't be every druid , just those around that are I'm sure they are spread over many forests, with groups in charge of certain areas and functions based on the druid club - "of claw" "of branch" "of talon" "of the wild" etc.

- - - Updated - - -



It doesn't .. my first response to him was that this doesn't mean they are moving to Nordrassil.. it doesn't.

But he's excited and it's a catchier head line.

The night elf capital was Darnassus and this city had its own architectural style characteristic of the night elf culture! I don't know why you like to name Auberdine

this was the architectural style of the capital race capital








The night elf will not change the way they build their buildings, that is their culture. shendrelar may have a district with empire-like buildings

[Eto Demerzel]

Hyjal is a neutral zone, shared by druids of all kinds, i hardly doubt a neutral spot can become a race capital... and it would cause major unrest amongst the population in lore, what night elves should avoid right now.

On the other hand, Feathermoon Stronghold is literally a stronghold, not a city, no population could live there... but it secures the path to Eldre'Thas (Dire Maul).

Potentially it was a great city, very big, it has a place in real game so it could be built without having to make any massive change to the world... and also it is somewhat shielded by the most neutral Horde race (Tauren) lands... so its a safe spot where they could rebuild to take control of western Kalimdor (from Feralas there is direct access to Desolace and from there to Stonetalon Mountains). Zones surrounding them would be safe since they are not claimed by the horde and with druidism power they could grow forests on them and build new routes to the north and south.



On red squares you have capital cities sizes... if they removed Dire Maul from ingame (and maybe left it as a portal in Caverns of Time or something) they could potentially have even more territory to build a new Night Elf capital, it could have wings for every branch of the race even (a district for druidism, one for elune worship, one for highborne and even one for other races like draenei, worgen or even dwarfs archeologists). Nobody would miss Dire Maul.

Also, lorewisely, Feralas is surrounded by a "weird lake" controlled by Taurens (who have been somewhat friendly with night elves for thousands years and it could help somewhat mend the unrest between elves and horde) and to the north by a non-claimed zone like Desolace where they could potentially find a new enemy in the hands of the Centaurs where they could satisfy their urges to genocide someone without nobody caring (because who cares about centaurs? they are just four legged troggs at this point).
Even from there they could just go even further to north and open (perhaps with dwarf help from Bael Modan who got evicted from there by Taurens?) a tunnel to Ashenvale and solidify their holdings.

Also in Feralas, they could build a new big harbor which could eventually be a start point for a circunnavegation/expedition to the other side of the planet. This port could see ships sailing to the Azuremyst Isle and potentially to the ruins of Teldrassil, where the Night Elfs could have some sort of leveling zone (like Ghostlands for the Blood Elves).


Oh, but i think Blizzard will never be up to the task...

[Tuor]

I miss the bank so much, i just loved it, my favorite place in Darnassus.

[Accendor]

- - - Updated - - -


The tree that is magically imbued can burn so easily with just a little bit of arcane fire ? What were the blessings of protection for? When you don't really care about a group or race, and they're just fodder, you easily forget such detail and fail to factor it into the story you play, because it's not about Night elves, it's about Sylvanas, and the plan that is happening, about the horde gaining a powerful victory.

they thougth people would love the victory they finally gave the horde and pull a tear jerking moment in the drama of destruction.. didn't work. The fans of their favourites turned on them, and their long time alliance following quite use to the second rate treatment or ignore bat show

Believe me, I am 100% on your side on this on. Always was. In fact, I am still extremely salty about all of it. Its nice to hear I am not the only one caring.

[Mace]

The night elf capital was Darnassus and this city had its own architectural style characteristic of the night elf culture! I don't know why you like to name Auberdine

this was the architectural style of the capital race capital

The night elf will not change the way they build their buildings, that is their culture. shendrelar may have a district with empire-like buildings

You did this in the other topic, only showing the parts you wanted to, not giving a balanced argument at all you missed the entire core of the city because it doesn't prove your point.

My point remains the same, I think night elves would rather not use wood to make homes if they can use other materials, - wood is like the flesh of the trees.

I don't' think it's usual to shape trees into animal forms, it's like distorting the tree just for fun aesthetics', it doesn't match the druid vibe.

Finally, with magical arcane back and Highborne, I see no reason why night elves need to build in wood or use Auberdine buildings with the resource and magic they have available. I know you don't want night elves to use or have their pre-sundering architecture, but it is part of the race.

And while they could build wood, I don't' think they should in a major capital city. pre-sundering night elf is fully night elven and we have evidence the Darnassians (without the Highborne use it for priests and warriors too), it's beautiful and I don't see why horde fans are so against night elven architecture used for night elves in the appropriate places. The way you go on, someone might think I don't want night elves to have their wooden architecture at all. That's not true, they should, in the appropriate places where it belongs and fits.

I'm just not into night elves having a capital of trees it's just not the race atm. Blizzard ofc can make it the race if they want to, but I think the night elves have already got architecture sorted for cities, for towns, for Highborne towns and forest culture villages. It's all there, I like what they have, and I think it should be with them. I reject this substituting night elf legacy - porting it over to the horde so it is no longer part of the night elves - I am not down with this. I don't mind them taking night elves over to the horde to share what is on the actual kaldorei, but I'm not down for relabelling and recasting all of kaldorei arcana and pre-sundering architecture horde because hordies like it very much and Suramar going horde now allows them to recast the narrative in that favour.

I don't like it.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Meh. mostly speculation. Regardless of I agree or not that Nordrassil should be the new NE capital, this text simply says that there is where the NE leadership is, whether temporarily or long term is simply unaddressed.

Way too much speculation, although truth be told, as long as they address the phasing issue on a capital city -which tbh shouldnt be too different to what's up with Darnassus and Undercity rn- Nordrassil could be a good place as any.

My qualms are more about Hyjal being too isolated and maybe too sacred to create a more bustling capital city, but it doesn't have to be in Nordrassil actual -could be south or west in the map- and portal's exist? TBH west of the Shrine of Aessina, right on the border with Felwood, could be actually very perfect as being on the centre of NE territory.

[Feanoro]

The night elf capital was Darnassus and this city had its own architectural style characteristic of the night elf culture!

Eagerly waiting for your second post, where you show Warrior's Terrace, the bridges over the lakes of the Temple Gardens, and the Temple of the Moon. Don't hold my breath, you say?

[Rhlor]

You did this in the other topic, only showing the parts you wanted to, not giving a balanced argument at all you missed the entire core of the city because it doesn't prove your point.

My point remains the same, I think night elves would rather not use wood to make homes if they can use other materials, - wood is like the flesh of the trees.

I don't' think it's usual to shape trees into animal forms, it's like distorting the tree just for fun aesthetics', it doesn't match the druid vibe.

Finally, with magical arcane back and Highborne, I see no reason why night elves need to build in wood or use Auberdine buildings with the resource and magic they have available. I know you don't want night elves to use or have their pre-sundering architecture, but it is part of the race.

And while they could build wood, I don't' think they should in a major capital city. pre-sundering night elf is fully night elven and we have evidence the Darnassians (without the Highborne use it for priests and warriors too), it's beautiful and I don't see why horde fans are so against night elven architecture used for night elves in the appropriate places. The way you go on, someone might think I don't want night elves to have their wooden architecture at all. That's not true, they should, in the appropriate places where it belongs and fits.

I'm just not into night elves having a capital of trees it's just not the race atm. Blizzard ofc can make it the race if they want to, but I think the night elves have already got architecture sorted for cities, for towns, for Highborne towns and forest culture villages. It's all there, I like what they have, and I think it should be with them. I reject this substituting night elf legacy - porting it over to the horde so it is no longer part of the night elves - I am not down with this. I don't mind them taking night elves over to the horde to share what is on the actual kaldorei, but I'm not down for relabelling and recasting all of kaldorei arcana and pre-sundering architecture horde because hordies like it very much and Suramar going horde now allows them to recast the narrative in that favour.

I don't like it.

I like night elves, my favorite character is illidan. And because I like night elves I understand that they have a cultural development of 10 thousand years that simply cannot disappear because a small group of shendrelar returned a few years ago! Malfurion is the racial leader and Druids are a fundamental part of society.
I repeat once again I agree that the Shendrelar have a district where they have constructions similar to that of the empire with a mage tower. But wanting to make all of society forget about 10 thousand years of cultural change so that they adapt to a style they abandoned seems to me inconsistent.

Shendrelar deserve representation and I agree with that.

[Frontenac]

It's not because Tyrande and Malfurion moved to Hyjal that we can conclude that this will be their new capital. However, it is the spiritual heart of Night Elven culture, with all those shrines dedicated to the Ancients and the Well of Eternity. It is only fitting that they regroup there, at least for a time, to see what they will do next.

In a more practical matter, I really doubt that Blizzard will bother to really build a new capital for the Night Elves (or the Forsaken), only to see it deserted a few weeks after its novelty wears off.