The Last of Us Part II

[Rennadrel]

I've yet to see anyone's attempts to "fix" the story not fail at missing the point. People always assume this story is about revenge and if that was what it was only about then yeah ending with Ellie killing Abbie would make sense or having Abby portrayed in a way to make her more likable so it's easier to accept Ellie forgiving her. But it's not just about that, it's also about closure and forgiveness and letting go not because its the easy thing to do but because its what you need to do more than anything else.

Fixing the story would be effectively rewriting it in a different order and possibly throwing some context in at the beginning that brings Abby into the fold. Make her story an early part of the game, then the second half to the ending would be Ellie's to segue into a third installment.

[Tech614]

Fixing the story

The story doesn't need fixed. I can't believe we actually have people claiming the story is broken, like an actual broken gameplay mechanic or something and should be fixed. This really shows how wild you guys are. Bonus points to when people constantly link some shitty youtuber with 0 writing experience and claim "look this guy knows how it should of been!".

[NineSpine]

The problem is you're generalizing, you assume that because you don't like it and others didn't like it that most people don't like it but go online and you can find just many people praising it, many people were able to do what you think was impossible. This is not an easy story to take in, not everyone is gonna like it and even those who do like it are not necessarily gonna enjoy it. But for those of us who did get what the story was trying to do, that do appreciate that they did the story that was different rather than the one that was easy, we're gonna remember it as something amazing and hell even for people who don't like it it will probably stick with them because we tend to remember the stories that upset us more than the ones that just made us happy.

We got what the story was trying to do. The problem is that the game was a bloated mess that didn’t accomplish what it set out to do. It mistakes darkness for depth and presents you with a ridiculous number of extremely shallow and underdeveloped character, and then spends half of its runtime rehashing the story of the first game With blander characters and no ending.

- - - Updated - - -

The story doesn't need fixed. I can't believe we actually have people claiming the story is broken, like an actual broken gameplay mechanic or something and should be fixed. This really shows how wild you guys are.

It is broken, just like the Star Wars prequel were broken and the final season of game of thrones was broken.

[Skorpionss]

The problem is you're generalizing, you assume that because you don't like it and others didn't like it that most people don't like it but go online and you can find just many people praising it, many people were able to do what you think was impossible. This is not an easy story to take in, not everyone is gonna like it and even those who do like it are not necessarily gonna enjoy it. But for those of us who did get what the story was trying to do, that do appreciate that they did the story that was different rather than the one that was easy, we're gonna remember it as something amazing and hell even for people who don't like it it will probably stick with them because we tend to remember the stories that upset us more than the ones that just made us happy.

I'm just using what metrics we have, which is comments on the internet and user reviews. Not everyone hates it obviously, but the majority does (and the difference isn't even that big).

Not sure if you watched Jeremy's vid yet but basically a game where the first half is Joel and ellie in the flashbacks from Part 2 + a few other sequences, but you control mostly Joel, then he tells Ellie the big thing and you switch control to ellie and leave Jackson to distance yourself a bit from Joel in order to process things.

While away Ellie and Abby meet, Abby is looking for Joel but the player and ellie don't know this, they help each other survive against a rival group (similar to the rattlers maybe, or even the rattlers themselves). Ellie gets to interact with some of the WLF members, then towards the end Ellie and Abby head to Jackson where she finally sees Joel and realizes she's found her target, waits for the night and sneaks out, this is where the player takes control of Abby for the first time, and it's a purely stealth section while she tries to sneak out of Jackson and makes her way to the WLF hangout where she tells everyone that she found him and ends with that cliffhanger.

Then the next game would start exactly the way it did now, just a few days later. Abby is out trying to gather some supplies before they attack Jackson to kill Joel, Joel is out on patrol and meets Abby again, helps her and they go for that house, and the rest of the game plays mostly the same, except we only get flashbacks on the Abby side of the game, and now the player is invested in the story much more and is much more willing to see Abby's side of the story.

[NineSpine]

I'm just using what metrics we have, which is comments on the internet and user reviews. Not everyone hates it obviously, but the majority does (and the difference isn't even that big).

Not sure if you watched Jeremy's vid yet but basically a game where the first half is basically Joel and ellie in the flashbacks from Part 2 + a few other sequences, but you control mostly Joel, then he tells ellie the big thing and you switch control to ellie and leave Jackson to distance yourself a bit from Joel in order to process things.

While away Ellie and Abby meet, Abby is looking for Joel but the player and ellie don't know this, they help each other survive against a rival group (similar to the rattlers maybe, or even the rattlers themselves). Ellie gets to interact with some of the WLF members, then towards the end Ellie and Abby head to Jackson where she finally sees Joel and realizes she's found her target, waits for the night and sneaks out, this is where the player takes control of Abby for the first time, and it's a purely stealth section while she tries to sneak out of Jackson and makes her way to the WLF hangout where she tells everyone that she found him and ends with that cliffhanger.

Then the next game would start exactly the way it did now, just a few days later. Abby is out trying to gather some supplies before they attack Jackson to kill Joel, Joel is out on patrol and meets Abby again, helps her and they go for that house, and the rest of the game plays mostly the same, except we only get flashbacks on the Abby side of the game, and now the player is invested in the story much more and is much more willing to see Abby's side of the story.

The last thing this game needed was more bloat and unfinished stories.

[Skorpionss]

The last thing this game needed was more bloat and unfinished stories.

?? which is why I said it should have been a separate game between this and first one? Not to make this one longer?

[NineSpine]

?? which is why I said it should have been a separate game between this and first one? Not to make this one longer?

If this story couldnt be told coherently in THIRTY HOURS, it’s not going to be made better by more time.

[Skorpionss]

If this story couldnt be told coherently in THIRTY HOURS, it’s not going to be made better by more time.

It could have, in 2 15 hour long games. Because the ideas behind the story aren't inherently bad, but they overestimated how much regular fans would be interested in it after the way it was executed.

[everydaygamer]

I'm just using what metrics we have, which is comments on the internet and user reviews. Not everyone hates it obviously, but the majority does (and the difference isn't even that big).

What metrics? Metacritic? Because you can't take that shit seriously when it has gotten more user reviews in a week than God of War in 2 years. I'm not saying they're all bogus but that number in that timeframe is ridiculous enough that you have to look for other sources before trying to claim that the majority hated it. You'd get a better indication just looking on Twitter.

[NineSpine]

It could have, in 2 15 hour long games. Because the ideas behind the story aren't inherently bad, but they overestimated how much regular fans would be interested in it after the way it was executed.

Abbie’s story is already 12 hours long and is just a shallow retread of themes from the first game (damaged person’s responsibility for a child drives them to change and become better). However, it doesn’t have any of the complex themes, character development, or resolution that the first game does. There is zero value in her story. It has nothing new to offer the series. It exists entirely as a mechanism for the writers to manipulate the audience.

[Skorpionss]

What metrics? Metacritic? Because you can't take that shit seriously when it has gotten more user reviews in a week than God of War in 2 years. I'm not saying they're all bogus but that number in that timeframe is ridiculous enough that you have to look for other sources before trying to claim that the majority hated it. You'd get a better indication just looking on Twitter.

It got the bombing on both sides though, not just negative reviews, there are almost 40k positive reviews, with most being 10/10. And even in those positive reviews some still criticize the story or the way it was told. I'm not looking just at the rating itself.

Some people place more weight on story than others so if they don't like the story at all they are inclined to rate the game lower than it objectively deserves, because the game is actually a technical marvel, it looks gorgeous, the settings are amazing, facial animations are probably the best we have seen. It has some issues with sound though, I've seen it happen in a few vids now, if a character is talking near you, but then moves like 1 meter away you can barely hear them, and I've also seen a few visual glitches (like an arm going through her bod making it look as if she had both arms on the same side).

[everydaygamer]

It got the bombing on both sides though, not just negative reviews, there are almost 40k positive reviews, with most being 10/10. And even in those positive reviews some still criticize the story or the way it was told. I'm not looking just at the rating itself.

Some people place more weight on story than others so if they don't like the story at all they are inclined to rate the game lower than it objectively deserves, because the game is actually a technical marvel, it looks gorgeous, the settings are amazing, facial animations are probably the best we have seen. It has some issues with sound though, I've seen it happen in a few vids now, if a character is talking near you, but then moves like 1 meter away you can barely hear them, and I've also seen a few visual glitches (like an arm going through her bod making it look as if she had both arms on the same side).

It's not about it being negative or positive its about enough of them being fake that it makes it impossible to draw a conclusion based on it.

[Rennadrel]

It got the bombing on both sides though, not just negative reviews, there are almost 40k positive reviews, with most being 10/10. And even in those positive reviews some still criticize the story or the way it was told. I'm not looking just at the rating itself.

Some people place more weight on story than others so if they don't like the story at all they are inclined to rate the game lower than it objectively deserves, because the game is actually a technical marvel, it looks gorgeous, the settings are amazing, facial animations are probably the best we have seen. It has some issues with sound though, I've seen it happen in a few vids now, if a character is talking near you, but then moves like 1 meter away you can barely hear them, and I've also seen a few visual glitches (like an arm going through her bod making it look as if she had both arms on the same side).

Every single 10/10 is as dishonest as every single 1/10. The truth, lies somewhere in the middle.

The gameplay is OK, but as a lot of people have noted, is horribly dated. The graphics are pretty but there's some lack of polish and bugs in the environment like characters getting stuck behind invisible walls. The story is passable at best, but would have done better were the series of events written in a different order.

[PaladinSum]

What metrics? Metacritic? Because you can't take that shit seriously when it has gotten more user reviews in a week than God of War in 2 years. I'm not saying they're all bogus but that number in that timeframe is ridiculous enough that you have to look for other sources before trying to claim that the majority hated it. You'd get a better indication just looking on Twitter.

So, how much of metacritic is bullshit? Because people seem to trip all over themselves to point it out when it's positive.

I fucking doubt anyone complaining about review bombing wouldn't be saying user score doesn't matter if it was 88 like left behind.

You know? The other game that was hated for having lesbians?

[Relapses]

So, how much of metacritic is bullshit? Because people seem to trip all over themselves to point it out when it's positive.

I fucking doubt anyone complaining about review bombing wouldn't be saying user score doesn't matter if it was 88 like left behind.

You know? The other game that was hated for having lesbians?

Using metacritic scores to support any argument -- positive or negative -- is stupid. The website is not moderated, literally invents review scores for unscored reviews and actively promotes publications which pay to essentially advertise on their website. The fact that a lot of people use it does not mean that it's an accurate representation of the "voice" of the community at large.

[PaladinSum]

Using metacritic scores to support any argument -- positive or negative -- is stupid. The website is not moderated, literally invents review scores for unscored reviews and actively promotes publications which pay to essentially advertise on their website. The fact that a lot of people use it does not mean that it's an accurate representation of the "voice" of the community at large.

Except Tech and anyone else that used that review score before release to claim it's the best.

[Rennadrel]

So, how much of metacritic is bullshit? Because people seem to trip all over themselves to point it out when it's positive.

I fucking doubt anyone complaining about review bombing wouldn't be saying user score doesn't matter if it was 88 like left behind.

You know? The other game that was hated for having lesbians?

Life Is Strange did alright, with an aggregate reviewer score of 85 and an 8.6 user score. And that game has lesbians. So the notion that people hate TLOU2 or any game because of representation is utter bollocks. And if games featuring female leads were hated by men, then I guess people wouldn't appreciate the variety of great female characters that exist in the gaming sphere. People trying to pass off a mediocre game like TLOU2 as something people just want to hate, rather than having rational reasons for disliking it, are idiots.

[Loeko]

Life Is Strange did alright, with an aggregate reviewer score of 85 and an 8.6 user score. And that game has lesbians. So the notion that people hate TLOU2 or any game because of representation is utter bollocks. And if games featuring female leads were hated by men, then I guess people wouldn't appreciate the variety of great female characters that exist in the gaming sphere. People trying to pass off a mediocre game like TLOU2 as something people just want to hate, rather than having rational reasons for disliking it, are idiots.

Life is Strange also had a low score like TLOU2 when it was bombed on Metacritic. It took months/years for Metacritic to delete the fake reviews and it will be the same for TLOU2. In a year or two, its Metacritic score will be pretty much the same as Life is Strange, somewhere between 7 and 9 because it simply is what the game is worth if you don't look at it with hatred or through pink tinted glasses. It will be the same for Cyberpunk because the narrow minded will be or already are butthurt that you can play a trans.

As for TLOU2's score, there's no way to have a legitimate opinion reading reviews or just watching leaks. I really recommend you just play it and make an opinion for yourself before you consider it mediocre. You might still not like it, and that's okay, but I'm sure your opinion will be less extreme. I'm almost done with it, and while it is far from being perfect, it still does much better that Uncharted 4 on every single aspect. There are reasons not to like TLOU but none of them is objectively enough to give the game less than a 5/6 (and that's still extreme), unless you voluntarily focus on the negative and blindy deny the positive.

[PaladinSum]

Life is Strange also had a low score like TLOU2 when it was bombed on Metacritic. It took months/years for Metacritic to delete the fake reviews and it will be the same for TLOU2. In a year or two, its Metacritic score will be pretty much the same as Life is Strange, somewhere between 7 and 9 because it simply is what the game is worth if you don't look at it with hatred or through pink tinted glasses. It will be the same for Cyberpunk because the narrow minded will be or already are butthurt that you can play a trans.

As for TLOU2's score, there's no way to have a legitimate opinion reading reviews or just watching leaks. I really recommend you just play it and make an opinion for yourself before you consider it mediocre. You might still not like it, and that's okay, but I'm sure your opinion will be less extreme. I'm almost done with it, and while it is far from being perfect, it still does much better that Uncharted 4 on every single aspect. There are reasons not to like TLOU but none of them is objectively enough to give the game less than a 5/6 (and that's still extreme), unless you voluntarily focus on the negative and blindy deny the positive.

Alright. I'm trying to do a third pass. I'm sure I can find another detail in the story that continues to lower my view on this.

And why don't you replay it a second time to make sure you haven't missed any speckles on your way in here to say "Well, clearly you just hate LGBT because you don't like this"? It's getting amusing to hear about narrow mindedness but have that behavior thrown at you for daring to not love this game.

[Thereturn]

The point is for the players to understand both sides while the characters remain oblivious. We know why Ellie is doing all this and we know why Abby is doing what she's doing but they don't know anything about the other. A good example is Ellie thinking that Abby is mad about the cure, she has no idea about Abby's dad, likewise, Abby doesn't get why Ellie is doing all this because she doesn't understand her relationship with Joel.

Because they don't know that's what makes the story so compelling because we know these characters are on a collision course and we want them to do the right thing but we're not even sure what the right thing is because yeah we don't want Ellie to die but it's hard to argue that Abby isn't justified in her anger and it's the same with Ellie. In the end, we are left with characters who have every right to keep doing the wrong thing but still manage to find a way to make a better choice by simply forgiving and moving on despite never fully understand one another.

This basicly. I think its pretty strong writing. To see both sides of the story antagonist and protagonists. One could argue Ellie is the evil one here. Abby actually seems to care about certain people whereas Ellie is basicly a goth chic without the make up trying to avenge a serial murderer that put his own selfish feels over curing the world.