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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I mean I knew he only saw them as a tool and not actual people (he sees most things/people as such), but to blatantly allow them to be openly murdered is on a whole different level imho
    Well... he is allowing people to die to the virus because of the impact this whole mishandled fiasco has on his re-election campaign. This isn't shocking. Just another tRump story that will probably get buried once a new "shocking" revelation comes along. This is daily, this is routine.

    Personally as a kind of a pacifist I would find it mildly amusing it would be a military related issue that finally wakes up republicans to the fact that tRump is a trainwreck who only cares about himself.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2020-06-28 at 04:33 AM.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    *sigh* even with everything that's happened since he was elected, and everything that was done to lead to that election... one thing I just can't get over still...

    Is that a candidate for President that malingered to dodge military service insulted POWs and casualties of war as "bad soldiers." and he wasn't openly condemned by his own party, and people still voted for him.

    I am a veteran. When soldiers are injured, captured, or die it is *NOT* because they are bad. Its not even because they have bad orders or leadership, although sometimes that is the case. Its because that is what the job calls for.

    When I was in France, I visited the grave of my great-uncle who died in WW2. The graves were endless. Filled with what the President would call "bad soldiers."

    I see politicians say "Support our troops", or people thank me for my service.

    Occasionally I have had the chance to ask someone "How am I supposed to feel ?" when its so readily apparent that those words are so empty. That noone's willing to stand up for the dead unless its politically advantageous for them.

    In their heart of hearts, I doubt anyone honestly believes Trump cares about the lives of anyone besides himself. What's so hard for me to accept is that the GOP and voters just silently witnesses this.

    Human decency shouldn't be a matter of politics.

    I wish I could have been more on topic, but I just hate the callous indifference of people sometimes. That they can have someone die protecting them, and then say nothing in their defense while someone pisses on the grave.
    At the end of the day, Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone else, but Trump. He will always see Russia and Putin as a means to stay in power, so he will continue to pander to them. As for his supporters, I think they are well aware that he doesn't actually care about them in the slightest. But, that doesn't really matter to them. Trump is simply the physical manifestation of their ignorance, anger, bigotry, and apathy towards other humans.

    They lie and pretend he's a great guy, and swear he's going to do all the things he promises, because it's their way of justifying it in their own heads. You can see it very clearly when they are pressed on policy, issues, or character... they repeat the same couple random talking points, then start trolling with memes and shouting, "MAGA!"

    They know they don't actually have any good argument for voting for him, but they simply don't care. They just want to win, and will sell their souls to get that win.

    This is exactly why the rest of us should never let them live it down. The issue shouldn't be dropped once Trump is out of office. This is about forcing his supporters into a reckoning, and ostracizing them from normal society. Make them into the pariahs that they are, cease personal relationships with them. The only way they will learn, is if there's real consequences to their actions. Violence isn't an appropriate solution, but cutting them off from your life (and the life of your family) is perfectly reasonable. It doesn't matter if they are family, or you've been friends with them for 30 years.

    If there are no consequences for the actions of trump's supporters, then they will never learn.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    If there are no consequences for the actions of trump's supporters, then they will never learn.
    Please show on this doll where did trump supporter hurt you

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Same deal

    Countries do not get a pass if they let their intelligence agencies run wild, it is still the countrys actions.
    Countries do get "free pass" over it all the time though - especially in operations on foreign soil (like Afghanistan).

    I guess Taliban can lodge formal complaint in UN over it. Assad certainly complained a lot there over US actions in Syria.

    The US do not get a pass for the CIA's actions just because they do not try to prevent the bad shady shit, not trying to prevent it is exactly the same as allowing it
    Well, how exactly did US suffer for all the things CIA did?

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    As a veteran who served in Iraq and Afghan, can we not allow this twat to derail the thread and give the subject matter the attention it deserves?

    I've obviously never been a Trump fan, but this crosses a line I never thought he'd cross, and if you support "@Tre45son", then just fk you. Period.
    Well trump has failed on this one indeed, since he pretty much promised to withdraw from afghan. if he would have withdrawn, there would be no one to offer bounty for

  6. #86
    I'm reading the article about this. It says the "menu of options" include lodging a complaint. Are you guys saying that if Trump had lodged a complaint, then you'd be fine with this, but since he didn't, then its treason? It seems ridiculous. Almost sounds like Obama and his "red line". Its not gonna do anything.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-of...142839178.html

    Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Countries do get "free pass" over it all the time though - especially in operations on foreign soil (like Afghanistan).

    I guess Taliban can lodge formal complaint in UN over it. Assad certainly complained a lot there over US actions in Syria.

    Well, how exactly did US suffer for all the things CIA did?
    Suffer?

    I am merely talking about your desire to say it is not Russia but GRU

    I am not debating the idea of tar and feather for Trump or Putin

    Because that would be absurd.

    Well in this instance, there are plenty of reasons to symbolicly (but not actually) giving tar and feather to either of them (Actually doing it would be political violence so do not go there)

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I'm reading the article about this. It says the "menu of options" include lodging a complaint. Are you guys saying that if Trump had lodged a complaint, then you'd be fine with this, but since he didn't, then its treason? It seems ridiculous. Almost sounds like Obama and his "red line". Its not gonna do anything.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-of...142839178.html

    Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow
    This isn't about Trump not doing anything. It's that the things that he DID do were actually rewards for Russia. He found out they were doing this, and then tried to get Russia back into the G7.

    If he did nothing, that would actually have been an improvement on what he did. Still objectively terrible, but an improvement nonetheless.

    Do you seriously think that rewarding people for bad behaviour is a good idea? Would you raise children or train pets that way?
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I'm reading the article about this. It says the "menu of options" include lodging a complaint. Are you guys saying that if Trump had lodged a complaint, then you'd be fine with this, but since he didn't, then its treason? It seems ridiculous. Almost sounds like Obama and his "red line". Its not gonna do anything.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-of...142839178.html

    Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow
    Looks like there wasn't enough evidence to even complain about it, and we all know how lax the US is about evidences

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    This isn't about Trump not doing anything. It's that the things that he DID do were actually rewards for Russia. He found out they were doing this, and then tried to get Russia back into the G7.

    If he did nothing, that would actually have been an improvement on what he did. Still objectively terrible, but an improvement nonetheless.

    Do you seriously think that rewarding people for bad behaviour is a good idea? Would you raise children or train pets that way?
    We have done that in the past with Russia.

    During the Cuban missile crisis, the USSR decided to place nukes in Cuba. Publicly, the agreement was that the US would agree to never try to invade Cuba again if they remove the missiles. Privately, JFK rewarded the USSR and dismantled the US mid range missile systems in Turkey. (a fact that never came out until years later).

    There is precedent that there could be super secret negotiations to resolve this that won't come out for many years. That's the nature of diplomacy between nuclear-armed nations though. You can't just start WW3 and turn the Earth into a fireball. Its even imperative to save face around the table.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
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  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Please show on this doll where did trump supporter hurt you
    The elected the most authoritarian President since slavery was legal.

    There you go. Some of us don't like racists and fascists.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    We have done that in the past with Russia.

    During the Cuban missile crisis, the USSR decided to place nukes in Cuba. Publicly, the agreement was that the US would agree to never try to invade Cuba again if they remove the missiles. Privately, JFK rewarded the USSR and dismantled the US mid range missile systems in Turkey. (a fact that never came out until years later).
    It's not really correct to say the USSR were rewarded for bad behaviour in regards to Cuba, the Cuban crisis was a direct response to the USA's installation of Missiles in Turkey, missiles that were closer to both Moscow and the USSR than the Cuban missiles would have been to Washington or the USA.

    A decent analogy would be that kid A picks up a rock and threatens to throw it at kid B, so kid B picks up a rock and threatens to throw it at kid A, then they both agree to drop their rocks. Blaming Kid B for bad behaviour isn't exactly justified.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I'm reading the article about this. It says the "menu of options" include lodging a complaint. Are you guys saying that if Trump had lodged a complaint, then you'd be fine with this, but since he didn't, then its treason? It seems ridiculous. Almost sounds like Obama and his "red line". Its not gonna do anything.
    If it didn’t sound ridiculous, you wouldn’t strawman it. Have you heard of sanctions or condemnation? After all, Trump did invite Taliban to both, the White House and camp David. Can you imagine Obama inviting Taliban to a secret meeting at camp David? Honestly... how much shit would you lose?

    FYI, the red line scared Putin enough, to get Trump elected. But, than again, folks such as your self, don’t want to remember:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

    Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow
    Indeed... strongly worded letter... to stop paying terrorists to kill Americans. Good show... am glad you liked it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    We have done that in the past with Russia.
    Nope... you don’t know what you are talking about,

    During the Cuban missile crisis, the USSR decided to place nukes in Cuba. Publicly, the agreement was that the US would agree to never try to invade Cuba again if they remove the missiles. Privately, JFK rewarded the USSR and dismantled the US mid range missile systems in Turkey. (a fact that never came out until years later).
    Russia was not part of the discussion or even know it happened. As far as Russia knew, those missiles were still there, with Turkey parliament boasting about it. This is in no way similar to what Trump did... it’s completely bullshit to even make the connection. In USSR they teach that Russia won the Cuban missile crisis, but they don’t even teach this was a gift from US. Your attempted propaganda, is beyond what they were even teaching me in USSR... which should emphasize how fucked this assertion is.

    There is precedent that there could be super secret negotiations to resolve this that won't come out for many years. That's the nature of diplomacy between nuclear-armed nations though. You can't just start WW3 and turn the Earth into a fireball. Its even imperative to save face around the table.
    Bullshit! There was no super secret negotiation with Russia, to remove Missiles from Turkey. They were removed in secret, to trick Russia into thinking they are still there. The negotiation was between Turkey and US, without Russia.

    The wiki link you provided, claims Russia was not involved in negotiations with Turkey. You need another link to show your assertions are not made up bullshit.

    Edit: Just 4 years ago... Trump supporters whined that a no fly zone in Syria would lead to WW3... what happened when Russia did it? Praise from international community? WTF? Too soon to try this bullshit again...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Trump comes from the jacksonian nationalist wing of the party. That wing is not big on starting wars. He is not a big military guy. Never was. He believes in diplomacy, building walls, using tariffs. He will shake the leader of north koreas hand before bombing him. He'd probably drastically cut the military budget if he could.

    If you want a big military guy that supports foreign wars, I guess you would vote for Dick Cheney.
    Why did Trump leave a peace treaty with Iran? Why did Trump attack Iranian leadership in January? Why did Trump veto a congressional bill, inhibiting Trump’s ability to go to war with Iran, without congressional approval?

    Trump’s bombing have every metric for deaths going up to level not seen since wars started. There are 2000 US troops protecting Saudi Oil. a large portion of US troops that were removed from Syria, are now stationed is Saudi Arabia, defending against Iran. But... yeah... Bomb the shit out of them and give their oil to Exxon Trump, is totes anti war... as long as it’s not Iran and not Saudi interest at stakes... how are they to buy Trump condos, when they have to defend them selfs from evil Iran?

    Edit: The shrapnel from those bombs Saudis dropped on a School in Libya last year, said “Made in USA” on them.

    Edit 2: Sorry, but... secret gift... that’s going to put a smile on my face for a while... good show... My favorite gifts are those I am not aware of, when they are gifted.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-06-28 at 12:57 PM.
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  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Please show on this doll where did trump supporter hurt you
    Lack of action killing over 120k around the country... bolstering far right attitudes leading to terror attacks like the El Paso shooting, maga bomber, and Neo nazi attacks on jews.

    Amazing rise in hate crimes against all people (besides white straight christian males).

    Oh and apparently not giving a fuck whether Russia puts bounties on American soldiers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    As a veteran who served in Iraq and Afghan, can we not allow this twat to derail the thread and give the subject matter the attention it deserves?

    I've obviously never been a Trump fan, but this crosses a line I never thought he'd cross, and if you support "@Tre45son", then just fk you. Period.
    I have quite a bit of family in the military, often was a path to citizenship. They've been stationed mostly in Germany and Japan last I heard. I would be quite a bit worried if they were in the Middle East while we have a president who doesn't give two shits whether someone kills my cousin for a bounty.

  15. #95
    Putin should just arm the taliban with manpads if he wants us to leave.

  16. #96
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    Time for a round table.

    Pelosi:

    This is as bad as it gets, and yet the president will not confront the Russians on this score, denies being briefed.

    I don't know what the Russians have on the president, politically, personally, financially, or whatever it is, but he wants to ignore, he wants to bring them back to the G8 despite the annexation of Crimea and invasion of Ukraine.

    What does that say about the concern that those who briefed the president have about not going anywhere near the Russia issue with this president?
    Okay, but that's Pelosi. Didn't expect anything different, did you? Let's ask Bolton.

    What would motivate the president to do that? Because it looks bad if Russians are paying to kill Americans and we’re not doing anything about it. So what what is the presidential reaction, is to say, ‘it’s not my responsibility, nobody told me about it.’ And therefore to duck any complaints that he hasn't acted effectively.

    This is part of the problem with President Trump’s decision making in the national security space, it’s just unconnected to the reality he's dealing with, it’s about his personal position,
    And we know how Bolton feels, being a lifelong Republican and also someone Trump hired and all, some people still want to say he's just a disgruntled employee. So how about Represenative Cheney?

    If reporting about Russian bounties on US forces is true, the White House must explain:
    1. Why weren’t the president or vice president briefed? Was the info in the PDB?
    2. Who did know and when?
    3. What has been done in response to protect our forces & hold Putin accountable?
    This is where things really come into focus. Hopefully, anyone involved with denying Trump had anything to do with Russia (back when he was caught asking Russia for help attacking the election, which they did) needs to see confirmation of these paid attacks, and if such exists, needs to move on Russia directly. The worst thing that can happen to the GOP now, is for a whistleblower to come forward saying "Yes I briefed Trump, here are the documents". Because such evidence would immediately throw into question their move to protect Trump from his earlier dealings with Russia, and more importantly, prove to the world that the Republican Party backed a Russian agent and did it on purpose.

    Perhaps in the next few days we'll hear a call for answers from McConnell or other GOP heavy-hitters. Problem is, if only the House demands answers, Trump will handwave it as partisan and choose to become even less transparent. I believe he'll even claim Executive Time and block US Intelligence members from answering questions, which itself is a sign of guilt -- Trump is claiming he was never briefed, so the only reason to block US Intelligence from reporting is if he's lying. However, if McConnnell demands answers and Trump blocks those answers, the Party of Trump is confirmed -- and the ads write themselves.

    And finally, a vague collection of random statements wearing a Chinese suit.

    Everybody is denying it & there have not been many attacks on us.

    Nobody’s been tougher on Russia than the Trump Administration. With Corrupt Joe Biden & Obama, Russia had a field day, taking over important parts of Ukraine - Where’s Hunter? Probably just another phony Times hit job, just like their failed Russia Hoax. Who is their 'source'?

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Break The Ice View Post
    Putin should just arm the taliban with manpads if he wants us to leave.
    Perhaps if our national security agents had stappled the briefing about it on a naked underage girl at one of his pagents or a pornstar Trump could cheat with as a married man and the pay hush money to he'd have paid more attention to it.


    Scuttlebutt is briefing on even the most important matter keeping Trump's attention is like trying to force a 2 year old with ADHD to sit through the worlds most boring church service. Forget that. The two year old after some explanation would have understood the situation better and unlike Trump who called his own intelligence teams liars would have believed America not Russia.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2020-06-28 at 03:41 PM.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Suffer?

    I am merely talking about your desire to say it is not Russia but GRU
    Wait, did you mean "get sternly worded article in media" as "do not get a pass"?

    Then i guess sure, noone gets a pass nowadays.

  19. #99
    So...have Republicans formulated a response on this yet?

    Or are they still waiting to learn more while they try to figure out a better response than, "I don't care."

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So...have Republicans formulated a response on this yet?

    Or are they still waiting to learn more while they try to figure out a better response than, "I don't care."
    A couple "showed concern" for it, but that's from typical dipshits like Lindsay Graham who are just waiting for talking points from the White House, to better toe the line.

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