[Megathread] Warframe

[RadasNoir]

I can't remember what level the enemies were, but this new mode is probably just going to end up being as tedious as that.

Maybe I'm just wired differently from other gamers, or it's my innate pessimism seeping into every facet of my life, but whenever I hear that something is considered "hard" or is going to be made "harder" in regards to any sort of video game, I don't think "That sounds fun and challenging!" but "Eeesh, that's probably gonna be tedious".

[Advent]

Maybe I'm just wired differently from other gamers, or it's my innate pessimism seeping into every facet of my life, but whenever I hear that something is considered "hard" or is going to be made "harder" in regards to any sort of video game, I don't think "That sounds fun and challenging!" but "Eeesh, that's probably gonna be tedious".

Believe me when I say you're not the only one thinking that.

[qwerty123456]

Any hard mode they implement should let you pick the warframe and weapons you want but the rivens and mods are locked to specific setups. Maybe even have only certain weapon options available each week (with set mods so people don't cheese). It's the only way I see to make hard content for the people who complain shits to easy because they exploit certain builds.

[Very Tired]

High level enemies aren't exactly 'hard' or 'challenging'. They are just a gear check to see if you are using the most meta of setups because of the out of control power scaling in this game. Actual difficulty wise, they play out as hard as low level enemies.

[Blayze]

Maybe I'm just wired differently from other gamers, or it's my innate pessimism seeping into every facet of my life, but whenever I hear that something is considered "hard" or is going to be made "harder" in regards to any sort of video game, I don't think "That sounds fun and challenging!" but "Eeesh, that's probably gonna be tedious".

The problem was, there was nothing you could do to counterplay the enemy's one-shot hitscan bullets without stopping the enemies from attacking completely.

The enemies were so overpowered that if you didn't constantly employ that level of cheese, you died instantly and the mission would be over extremely quickly.

I don't want an entire starmap of that shit.

[Mirishka]

and just further pushes the usage of certain 'frames and weapons over others.

That right there is my #1 issue with this game and a big part of why I lost my love of it. At a certain point the content becomes 'use X frame/weapon or enjoy dying tons'. There's no semblance of balance at all - it feels like they just add whatever seems cool at any given time and just kind of move on with their day.

"Skateboards? Yeah! A frame that is basically Zarya from Overwatch? Sure why not?"

I recently reinstalled because I wanted to build Titania Prime, and within a couple days I was already feeling that 'ah, right, this is why I stopped playing' creeping back up. And it sucks because WF is a game I used to genuinely love, like as much as I loved WoW in its heyday.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't want an entire starmap of that shit.

Neither do I.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe I'm just wired differently from other gamers, or it's my innate pessimism seeping into every facet of my life, but whenever I hear that something is considered "hard" or is going to be made "harder" in regards to any sort of video game, I don't think "That sounds fun and challenging!" but "Eeesh, that's probably gonna be tedious".

Same here. When I game I want to have fun - I have no interest in games that are artificially difficult for the sake of it. I expect bosses and such to be challenging, but the idea of slogging my way through hundreds of stupidly bullet-sponge versions of like... common enemies because DE decided to listen to the 'LOL GAME IS SO EASY CASUAL SCRUBS CAN BEAT IT' crowd?

Pass.

[RadasNoir]

I recently reinstalled because I wanted to build Titania Prime, and within a couple days I was already feeling that 'ah, right, this is why I stopped playing' creeping back up. And it sucks because WF is a game I used to genuinely love, like as much as I loved WoW in its heyday

I hear ya. This past year and change has been particularly rough. We've had long periods of content drought, and when the content finally shows up, it tends to be ridiculously grindy. I absolutely despise Nightwave and Kuva Liches, and I was really disappointed in Railjack. If they had made it more accessible from the start, and there was more variation to it beyond flying around and killing hundreds of fighters, I feel like Railjack could have given them the same new player bump as Plains of Eidolon had. Instead, they scaled all the enemies up into the stratosphere...and there were still players who had made it the final areas within days if not hours of Railjack's release. They've since relented and nerfed/reworked both Liches and Railjack, but every time I think they've finally learned their lesson, I hear about the next "hard mode" thing they're working on....

Pretty much the only reason why I'm still playing is, every now and then there's a 'frame or weapon that comes out that I enjoy leveling and playing with. I only recently assembled Protea and have been having a lot of fun with her...but yeah, I feel like she's a bit too "niche" for regular use, and will likely end up getting shelved once I've finished leveling and forma-ing her, similar to what I suspect your issues with Titania Prime were.

Same here. When I game I want to have fun - I have no interest in games that are artificially difficult for the sake of it. I expect bosses and such to be challenging, but the idea of slogging my way through hundreds of stupidly bullet-sponge versions of like... common enemies

Yeah, this perfectly describes how I feel about most games, as well. I actually LOVE boss fights. I love building up my characters to be able to face them, and then figuring out the mechanics behind a given fight...but fighting the enemies between me and the boss should NOT be almost as much of a struggle as the boss itself. They're referred to as "trash" in MMOs for a reason....

Anyway, sorry for the mini-rants. Glad to hear from other folk that I'm not alone in my gaming preferences.

[Ophenia]

Yeah, this perfectly describes how I feel about most games, as well. I actually LOVE boss fights. I love building up my characters to be able to face them, and then figuring out the mechanics behind a given fight...but fighting the enemies between me and the boss should NOT be almost as much of a struggle as the boss itself. They're referred to as "trash" in MMOs for a reason....

Yeah, that's something that often comes in Warframe's discussions. Some people want tough enemies but... No Grineer should ever be able to withstand a Warframe at all, that doesn't make sense. They're only a threat because of their number basically, slaughtering them is kinda the point.

Unfortunately bosses in Warframe were never enjoyable (imo). Most of the times they're "timegated" with invuln phases, and recently they're just .. cutscenes. Exploiter Orb is the pinnacle of un-enjoyable fight, their Jackal rework is the same kind. The only encounter I like, I think, is Kela ? But that's probably more because I like her character than her encounter mechanics.
In terms of boss I still enjoy the Profit Taker (I always feel alone here :P ).

But that's not a huge deal imo, because, for me, the most enjoyable part of Warframe is the slaughtering part.

[dope_danny]

High level enemies aren't exactly 'hard' or 'challenging'. They are just a gear check to see if you are using the most meta of setups because of the out of control power scaling in this game. Actual difficulty wise, they play out as hard as low level enemies.

Personally i would much rather see smarter enemies but the games kind of designed around "i got the build so i hit X to send out a wave of hot death and atomise the level and magnet in everything".

[RadasNoir]

Unfortunately bosses in Warframe were never enjoyable (imo). Most of the times they're "timegated" with invuln phases, and recently they're just .. cutscenes. Exploiter Orb is the pinnacle of un-enjoyable fight, their Jackal rework is the same kind. The only encounter I like, I think, is Kela ? But that's probably more because I like her character than her encounter mechanics.
In terms of boss I still enjoy the Profit Taker (I always feel alone here :P ).

Kela used to be one of the only boss fights in Warframe I enjoyed as well, but it feels like it's gotten increasingly buggier over time, which has sort of sapped some of the appeal. She definitely comes the closest to being a more traditional "MMO" style boss, where instead of having to sit around and wait for a weak point to become available, she has actual "phases" to her fight.

The Ambulas are probably my favorite fight of the "old" starchart assassinations missions, now. I know it's less of an actual boss fight and more a pseudo-mobile defense-with-extra-steps, but I always enjoy listening to the "old man rap battle" going on in the background between Glast and Frohd (even if I've done that mission enough times that I've almost memorized the whole conversation) and I also like the "arena" of the fight, with the Corpus ship floating in the background.

While I can't say I actually enjoy the Profit Taker fight, I definitely prefer it way more than Exploiter Orb. Profit Taker would be much more tolerable if there weren't so many knockdowns and staggers going on, but I suppose that would also drastically reduce the difficulty as well. Meanwhile, as much as I was gushing about learning boss mechanics earlier, I still think I'm missing something when it comes to the Exploiter Orb, because it feels like I can stand around doing nothing and the fight would still somehow progress.

I actually really enjoy the base mechanics of the Eidolons as well, I just really hate that you don't have the option to fight them whenever you're feeling like it, or actually have the time to do so.

Personally i would much rather see smarter enemies but the games kind of designed around "i got the build so i hit X to send out a wave of hot death and atomise the level and magnet in everything".

I've occasionally seen other people bring this up in regards to making things more difficult. Can you point to an example of what you would consider a "smart" enemy in a game?

For some reason, all I can think of off the top of my head when it comes to "smarter" enemies in a shooter-type game are the soldiers from the Half-Life series, and even then, enemies in Warframe already exhibit some of those behaviors, like taking cover and tossing grenades. But, as you alluded to, convention military tactics are kind of moot against characters that are walking WMDs.

[Mirishka]

Pretty much the only reason why I'm still playing is, every now and then there's a 'frame or weapon that comes out that I enjoy leveling and playing with.

Same here. I think I'm done with the game, and then I hear about a cool new frame like Garuda or I see a new Prime design that impresses me (e.g. Ivara Prime) and get sucked back in for a few weeks. I like leveling/forma-ing frames and coming up with fun builds for them, but I always hit that point where the difficulty basically demands that I dig out Chroma or one of the other OP frames if I want to continue.

And when I feel like I can't use the frames that I actually enjoy, I uninstall and move onto other games.

Until a new frame comes out that has me like 'oooo shiny' and the cycle begins anew... as it just did with Titania Prime. I'm having a lot of fun with her, can't lie, but I already have that sense of running out of things to do that I enjoy.

On a side note, the quests to gather components of the ship for building our Railjack were some of the worst in any game I've played. The constant interruptions, the constant bitching of Cephalon Cy (WE. DO NOT. HAVE TIME FOR THIS. times infinity), the scanner-blocking drones that spawn like a mile away, forcing you to leave the scan area which Cy bitches about despite telling me to go kill the goddamn drones.... ugh. They are literally the opposite of fun.

I don't know who designed that questline or how many people worked on it, but they should all feel bad.

[Ophenia]

Same here. I think I'm done with the game, and then I hear about a cool new frame like Garuda or I see a new Prime design that impresses me (e.g. Ivara Prime) and get sucked back in for a few weeks. I like leveling/forma-ing frames and coming up with fun builds for them, but I always hit that point where the difficulty basically demands that I dig out Chroma or one of the other OP frames if I want to continue.

To be fair here, there are a lot of Warframes which can be considered OP. Of course there are the "most OP of 'em all", but the amount of Warframes able to withstand high-level enemies is still important. I hate Chroma, Inaros, Rhino for example so I nearly never use them. For high level missions I know I can use Baruuk, Hildryn, Garuda, Oberon, Trinity, Harrow, Gauss, Saryn, Mesa, Equinox, Mag without any problem, and I will probably use them for the Steel Patch without suffering too much.

Of course there are sub-par Warframes but when looking at it, not too many. A lot have been reworked recently and the rework... work. I know I'd avoid Ember, Nyx or Vauban for high-level content as I don't like their recent rework (or lack of, for Nyx), but I'm pretty sure that we can find a build or two that would make them viable for such mission - for sure Nyx sucks, but she's invulnerable so she could deal with the Steel Path fingers in the nose, so she can be considered viable).

In my opinion the "meta" thing in Warframe only matters for elitist groups wanting to take down very specific content, such as 6-7x3 Eidolons or 4-hour Mot. But if you do any other content - ie 99% of Warframe's content - then whatever setup you use will be just fine.

[RadasNoir]

I don't know who designed that questline or how many people worked on it, but they should all feel bad.

They did at least sort of acknowledge that their handling of Railjack could have been better. They must have realized how much they had screwed up when they had this whole big event planned (Scarlet Spear) that heavily relied on players using Railjack...only to find that the vast majority of the playerbase still hadn't actually finished the quest to actually unlock their Railjack, both because of the high costs involved, as well as likely similar reasons to your own. It just didn't seem worth it to most people, and as someone who did make it through all the grind, I can't really blame them. Outside of doing a couple of Nightwave challenges, I haven't touched my Railjack in quite some time. Even with the nerfs to enemy health and numbers, the missions take way too long, for far too little reward.

In my opinion the "meta" thing in Warframe only matters for elitist groups wanting to take down very specific content, such as 6-7x3 Eidolons or 4-hour Mot. But if you do any other content - ie 99% of Warframe's content - then whatever setup you use will be just fine.

There's a difference between what's "viable" and what's "enjoyable", though. You mentioned an Assimilate-based Nyx in the rest of your post. So, you could technically go into a mission with Nyx, being literally invulnerable (energy-permitting) but having your move speed slowed to a crawl. Or...you could just take Inaros, be effectively immortal, and not have your movement speed effected at all.

If it does turn out that enemies hit hard enough in Steel Path missions to require a tankier frame, how many players do you honestly think will be bringing an Assimilate Nyx, as opposed to an Inaros, Chroma, Rhino, or one of the other currently meta "tank" frames?

[Ophenia]

There's a difference between what's "viable" and what's "enjoyable", though. You mentioned an Assimilate-based Nyx in the rest of your post. So, you could technically go into a mission with Nyx, being literally invulnerable (energy-permitting) but having your move speed slowed to a crawl. Or...you could just take Inaros, be effectively immortal, and not have your movement speed effected at all.

If it does turn out that enemies hit hard enough in Steel Path missions to require a tankier frame, how many players do you honestly think will be bringing an Assimilate Nyx, as opposed to an Inaros, Chroma, Rhino, or one of the other currently meta "tank" frames?

I know I personally wouldn't use any of both. But I know some people who enjoy Nyx (... yeah I know), so the frame they enjoy will be viable. And I truly believe, most of Warframes will be viable for Steel Path (which will barely be Sortie-level), so in the end, it will be up to what you prefer playing.

There will always be a "fastest way to". But in the end it's still up to you, and level 100-something missions are not missions you have to cheese or fail.
You will have the possibility to clean the starchart with an Ivara Prowl if you want. Will it be as efficient as completing everything with Saryn or Mesa ? Nope. Will it be harder ? Not even sure. Will it be more fun ? If you enjoy Ivara Prowl stealth missions, yeah.

That's why I'm saying that "viable" is fine. Everyone has their own view of "enjoyable". The point is, I don't believe the Steel Path will be hard enough for any meta comp to be mandatory. In fact, it will be slightly harder, making you think twice about your build, but most will be viable, hence you're not forced to go the Meta way.

Mesa and Saryn were always my favorite Warframes but I'm currently trying to re-test old stuff I shelved a long time ago, for fun. If Steel Path is Sortie-level of difficulty, I will gladly complete this game mode with something else. Maybe Baruuk ? Ash why not. Or Mag. I know all of them will be good enough to not fail during these missions, and after all, that's all that matters.
If the game mode is near impossible, of course I'll have to bring over-the-top bullshit meta à la Chroma + Bramma or whatever. But I'm very confident we won't have to, and you can bring your Vauban with Braton Vandal and be just fine, just ... slower.

[Mirishka]

I know I personally wouldn't use any of both. But I know some people who enjoy Nyx (... yeah I know), so the frame they enjoy will be viable. And I truly believe, most of Warframes will be viable for Steel Path (which will barely be Sortie-level), so in the end, it will be up to what you prefer playing.

There will always be a "fastest way to". But in the end it's still up to you, and level 100-something missions are not missions you have to cheese or fail.
You will have the possibility to clean the starchart with an Ivara Prowl if you want. Will it be as efficient as completing everything with Saryn or Mesa ? Nope. Will it be harder ? Not even sure. Will it be more fun ? If you enjoy Ivara Prowl stealth missions, yeah.

That's why I'm saying that "viable" is fine. Everyone has their own view of "enjoyable". The point is, I don't believe the Steel Path will be hard enough for any meta comp to be mandatory. In fact, it will be slightly harder, making you think twice about your build, but most will be viable, hence you're not forced to go the Meta way.

Mesa and Saryn were always my favorite Warframes but I'm currently trying to re-test old stuff I shelved a long time ago, for fun. If Steel Path is Sortie-level of difficulty, I will gladly complete this game mode with something else. Maybe Baruuk ? Ash why not. Or Mag. I know all of them will be good enough to not fail during these missions, and after all, that's all that matters.
If the game mode is near impossible, of course I'll have to bring over-the-top bullshit meta à la Chroma + Bramma or whatever. But I'm very confident we won't have to, and you can bring your Vauban with Braton Vandal and be just fine, just ... slower.

I do love me some Saryn/Mesa. Ember was my favorite frame for the longest time, wasn't great for high level stuff though. She seems a lot tankier now, and I like the synergy between her abilities, but I do miss my old WoF/firequake build.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

There's a difference between what's "viable" and what's "enjoyable", though. You mentioned an Assimilate-based Nyx in the rest of your post. So, you could technically go into a mission with Nyx, being literally invulnerable (energy-permitting) but having your move speed slowed to a crawl. Or...you could just take Inaros, be effectively immortal, and not have your movement speed effected at all.

If it does turn out that enemies hit hard enough in Steel Path missions to require a tankier frame, how many players do you honestly think will be bringing an Assimilate Nyx, as opposed to an Inaros, Chroma, Rhino, or one of the other currently meta "tank" frames?

^^^^

My main is Zephyr. Her movement capabilities used to be incredible way back in the early days of Warframe, before parkour 2.0 and the tileset remakes. Her slide speed bonus, her floatyness, and her dash were amazing and absolutely the trade off in lacking traditional combat abilities. I felt untouchable. But the game has changed over time, and right now there is pretty much no functional reason to pick Zephyr over any other Warframe in the game. She brings absolutely nothing to combat; no good abilities for killing and no group buffs (unless you add a mod that allows her Turbulence to give a movement speed buff to the whole party, which Volt can do without needing to sacrifice a mod slot and he other actually useful abilities). Zephyr's movement is only relevant in open world levels like the Plains or Fortuna: if you max out her dash speed and length, Zephyr can travel as fast as an Archwing... which is, again, useless when anyone can just hop into their Archwing and fly around anyway.

The Zephyr rework was an absolute joke. Zephyr's base combat ability throws a slow moving magical projectile that misses the target 90% of the time, and if it does hit it only tickles the target for laughable damage. Really the only reason to even use that ability at all is to knock down particularly troublesome targets that you can't just kill in a couple seconds, and that's IF they aren't immune to CC. Zephyr's ultimate creates Tornados which, again, hardly hit anything and if they do hit they deal pitiful damage, as well as making it impossible to actually damage any targets caught up in the tornado.

Zephyr has one single GOOD ability: turbulence, which protects Zephyr from incoming projectiles. That's literally it. Well, it USED TO BE a good combat ability, as way back when you could equip a Tonkor and so long as your Turbulence was up, your Tonkor would be a hit-scan weapon. But DE thought that was too fun and Zephyr players aren't allowed to have fun, so RIP that strat.

Zephyr is technically viable; she has turbulence for invincibility to projectiles, but is it fun to spend half an hour chipping away at a level 120 gunner with your 20k DPS Galantine? No. It is not.

There have been numerous rework threads on the official forums, several ideas on how to make Zephyr an actually good frame. Ofcourse, in DE fashion those ideas and the failings of Zephyr have been never addressed. Not even an acknowledgement of the terrible place Zephyr finds herself in.

Oh and a Zephyr deluxe skin was shown off over four and a half years ago and still isn't coming out. "Oh, it's coming soon, we promise!" "Oh, we didn't care enough about it to work on it so we passed it off to a dev to have him work on it on his spare time!" "Oh look two years have passed and that dev we passed it on to to work on his spare time hasn't finished it yet, so we are rebooting development of it inhouse! It's coming after the Ivara Prime patch we promise!" "Oh look it's been over a year and a half since Ivara Prime dropped and this skin hasn't come out yet. It's coming guys we promise! Really! It's just around the next corner!".

I guess I could try switching to a different frame, spending two dozen hours formaing it and farming to buy the best mods for it, and then dropping cash on cosmetics, but eh I just don't care anymore.

Same here. When I game I want to have fun - I have no interest in games that are artificially difficult for the sake of it. I expect bosses and such to be challenging, but the idea of slogging my way through hundreds of stupidly bullet-sponge versions of like... common enemies because DE decided to listen to the 'LOL GAME IS SO EASY CASUAL SCRUBS CAN BEAT IT' crowd?

Pass.

I think OldFrame (2012-2014 Warframe) was balanced just right. Unlike modern Warframe, which is just a horde shooter, where the hundreds of mobs hurled at you are either boring one shot kills or scale up to become boring damage sponges, OldFrame hurled only a dozen or two mobs at you at a time. They were balanced in such a way that those combination of mobs coming at you were a threat, and you had to be extremely mindful of your environment (getting cornered was a death sentence) and quickly decide who to prioritize to kill first.

Pretty much the only reason why I'm still playing is, every now and then there's a 'frame or weapon that comes out that I enjoy leveling and playing with. I only recently assembled Protea and have been having a lot of fun with her...but yeah, I feel like she's a bit too "niche" for regular use, and will likely end up getting shelved once I've finished leveling and forma-ing her, similar to what I suspect your issues with Titania Prime were.

At this point, I care very little for Warframe. I do not enjoy current Warframe gameplay and I won't grind anymore for the sake of the grind. DE does not have the passion for the game they used to have. They no longer run fun events all of the time like they used to. DE is content to push out new systems and features, and then promptly never expand upon or fix those systems and features again. They don't listen to player feedback "this thing is not fun and here are 200 different ways to make it fix it!".

I will log in for the next quest in the cinematic storyline... if it comes out . I's been over two years since The Sacrifice ended on a cliffhanger and there is no word on when The New War will come out. At this point, I'm starting to doubt I will ever get to see the end of the story.

[Ophenia]

I will log in for the next quest in the cinematic storyline... if it comes out . I's been over two years since The Sacrifice ended on a cliffhanger and there is no word on when The New War will come out. At this point, I'm starting to doubt I will ever get to see the end of the story.

There have been some bits with Erra though, I think 2? or 3 little cinematics

[RadasNoir]

There have been some bits with Erra though, I think 2? or 3 little cinematics

While it's not technically connected to the overarching Operator/Sentient storyline, we did also just get a story quest in the form of the Deadlock Protocol.

DE is content to push out new systems and features, and then promptly never expand upon or fix those systems and features again. They don't listen to player feedback "this thing is not fun and here are 200 different ways to make it fix it!".

To be fair, they did take the time to go back and rework both the Kuva Liches and Railjack based on player feedback. But I definitely understand your frustration. Again, I have a bad feeling the Steel Path will go the way of every other recent game mode, in that it will be overtuned at launch, and the team will have to spend even more time polishing and reworking it...up until they move onto the next new game mode.

[Ophenia]

Inaros Prime Access (with Karyst and Panthera) out 14th of July *yawns*

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/12...s-coming-soon/

[Ophenia]

Nightwave investigation 3 is here, and Steel Path as well.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/12...h-update-2810/

Enemies lvl +100, stats 250% it seems, and you have to redo the complete StarChart.
Guess it will be fun, will try that this evening