Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Ripster42]

Just to add to the idiocy of those arguing in favor of keeping Confederate statues up, and paraphrasing Jon Stewart, I don't recall seeing the GOP complaining when the Saddam Hussein statues were torn down.

I don't even understand the point of their sophistry. It's not like they're convincing any non-racist people. "We put up a statue of Lee! You know, the guy who said he didn't want statues of himself."

[cubby]

I don't even understand the point of their sophistry. It's not like they're convincing any non-racist people. "We put up a statue of Lee! You know, the guy who said he didn't want statues of himself."

And because there really is no logical point to their public arguments, the only rational conclusion is deep seated racism.

[Themius]

Making arrests, securing the scene, dealing with situations with active violence. As well, once you've done your investigation, do you want the social worker/investigator to go out and arrest the person? That's just what we currently have for cops with a different title.

I also believe cops should be responsible for traffic enforcement.

Most traffic violations can simply be mailed citations.

You said active violence. Which isn’t very common. Most crimes aren’t that active and ongoing for arrests. And when it comes to arresting did you forget county police. State police. Marshall’s. Federal police. The fbi. Like.. do you think your local department are the only people that can arrest?

[Ripster42]

Most traffic violations can simply be mailed citations.

And there are a lot that can't. Reckless and drunk driving definitely come to mind. And again, I don't want additional incentive to put in more cameras.

You said active violence. Which isn’t very common. Most crimes aren’t that active and ongoing for arrests. And when it comes to arresting did you forget county police. State police. Marshall’s. Federal police. The fbi. Like.. do you think your local department are the only people that can arrest?

So your answer for why we don't need police is because there's police?

[Zaydin]

There has been a mass shooting in Louisville, Kentucky at a BLM protest there. Someone was livestreaming the protests to Facebook and managed to catch the gunman and the moment he opened fire on video.

Careful what you click on, because the video is horrific and heart breaking.

[For_The_Horde]

There has been a mass shooting in Louisville, Kentucky at a BLM protest there. Someone was livestreaming the protests to Facebook and managed to catch the gunman and the moment he opened fire on video.

Careful what you click on, because the video is horrific and heart breaking.

It honestly sounds like there's more than one gunman, and the one you do see is very white and deliberately aiming at people.

[Themius]

And there are a lot that can't. Reckless and drunk driving definitely come to mind. And again, I don't want additional incentive to put in more cameras.



So your answer for why we don't need police is because there's police?

This whole thing has focused on getting my rid of and scaling back local police. Not literally all police. Scaling back beat cops and scaling backs cops for calls they shouldn’t be handling.

[Ripster42]

This whole thing has focused on getting my rid of and scaling back local police. Not literally all police. Scaling back beat cops and scaling backs cops for calls they shouldn’t be handling.

Apparently you've missed this digression. This specific part has been about society collapsing with no police presence, and me calling bullshit. Not scaling back, none. No, I'm not the one who brought it up. It's why I've been clear, this whole time, that I agree police should be scaled back, because that's not what people have been arguing for. One person's explanation for why we needed no police was "community patrols" (which, I'm sure you don't need to be told how awful those can be) and restorative justice as if that wasn't a substitution for our court system and not our police.

[Easo]

Gotta say, "community patrols" as replacement for police is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have heard of. I don't even want to argue about it, it is so out of touch with reality.

[Themius]

Apparently you've missed this digression. This specific part has been about society collapsing with no police presence, and me calling bullshit. Not scaling back, none. No, I'm not the one who brought it up. It's why I've been clear, this whole time, that I agree police should be scaled back, because that's not what people have been arguing for. One person's explanation for why we needed no police was "community patrols" (which, I'm sure you don't need to be told how awful those can be) and restorative justice as if that wasn't a substitution for our court system and not our police.

Um I've been reading the same thread and have been in this conversation for a couple hundred pages.

The argument has mostly been against police departments and abolishing of dismantling to reallocating funding.

Local police departments aren't all that important...

- - - Updated - - -

Gotta say, "community patrols" as replacement for police is one of the most ridiculous ideas I have heard of. I don't even want to argue about it, it is so out of touch with reality.

Why though?

[Ripster42]

Um I've been reading the same thread and have been in this conversation for a couple hundred pages.

That's great. You must have missed the statement that I was replying to.

Police, like capitalism, have existed for a fraction of human history and yet we're told that society would crumble into the dust without either. For reasons.

Why though?

Civilian patrols are just police with zero accountability, as opposed to the limited accountability we have now. I don't know about you, but I don't really want a "civilian patrol" of 40 racist white dudes out on patrol. The goal is progress, not regression.

[Themius]

That's great. You must have missed the statement that I was replying to.

Why would you assume there would be no accountability.... especially when this whole thing is about accountability.

[Ripster42]

Why would you assume there would be no accountability.... especially when this whole thing is about accountability.

Because of the history of community patrols, which has been even more abysmal than the history of our police. The other name for 'community patrol' is 'lynch mob' if you live in a racist community. You don't get more accountability from less oversight. Again, the goal is progress, not regression.

[Shadowferal]

The "United Constitutional Patriots" laughs at what you imagine as accountability.

[Easo]

The "United Constitutional Patriots" laughs at what you imagine as accountability.

Basically, this. If you people think that the "community patrols" would be good at keeping order and following the law, not their own interpretation of both of those things, think again.
There is the whole question about training them, overseeing them, etc., unless someone thinks that those things are not needed xD

[Themius]

Because of the history of community patrols, which has been even more abysmal than the history of our police. The other name for 'community patrol' is 'lynch mob' if you live in a racist community. You don't get more accountability from less oversight. Again, the goal is progress, not regression.

Oh so now history matters to you?

Why are you making assumptions that community boards would have zero accountability and zero oversight WHEN THOSE ARE THE TWO ISSUES AT PLAY HERE.

It seems foolish to make these assumptions, when the very thing at protest are these things and you're assuming any community board put up would lack the two basic things people are explicitly protesting for.

[Ripster42]

Oh so now history matters to you?

My entire entry into this conversation was correcting a historical inaccuracy.

Why are you making assumptions that community boards would have zero accountability and zero oversight WHEN THOSE ARE THE TWO ISSUES AT PLAY HERE.

It seems foolish to make these assumptions, when the very thing at protest are these things and you're assuming any community board put up would lack the two basic things people are explicitly protesting for.

There is the whole question about training them, overseeing them, etc., unless someone thinks that those things are not needed xD

At that point, they're just police. It's not like a municipality can't make residency within that municipality a condition for hiring people in the police department if you want the police to be people from your community.

Edit: Bolding in all caps just makes you look like you're screeching.

[Themius]

My entire entry into this conversation was correcting a historical inaccuracy.




At that point, they're just police. It's not like a municipality can't make residency within that municipality a condition for hiring people in the police department if you want the police to be people from your community.

Edit: Bolding in all caps just makes you look like you're screeching.

if you view it as screeching instead of EMPHASIS that is a problem with YOU. If you are unable to read an argument because of it, then i would say try to focus on the words, especially emphasised ones.

They're not "just police" police have a union, police have an infiltration of racists, police have SPECIAL BILL OF RIGHTS AND LAWS set up to protect them.

[Ripster42]

They're not "just police" police have a union, police have an infiltration of racists, police have SPECIAL BILL OF RIGHTS AND LAWS set up to protect them.

Unions are a right. Racists aren't a necessary component of police. Qualified immunity should go. Renaming POLICE departments to "COMMUNITY PATROLS" is going to solve JACK SHIT.

This is how ridiculous you look.

[Themius]

Unions are a right. Racists aren't a necessary component of police. Qualified immunity should go. Renaming POLICE departments to "COMMUNITY PATROLS" is going to solve JACK SHIT.

This is how ridiculous you look.

They aren't a necessary component yet they are frequently there. This isn't about renaming... you are making it about renaming, you are engaging in strawman. you are bringing up shit that wasn't argued to then argue against it.

You are the one who looks riduclous.