[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Tanaria]

Except Blood Elves and Nightborne are simply better at arcane practices.
The lore tells us this.

And Nightborne are still with the Blood Elves on the Horde and it makes me so happy

[Aucald]

Azshara is still night elf zone though, horde occupied territory so the night elves do have cause for claiming, they could decide to retake it.

It *was* a Night Elven zone, yes; but they very clearly didn't want it anymore and there weren't really miffed to let it go in Cata. Azshara had no Night Elf settlements of note post-WotA, they avoided it for a number of good reasons. It was populated mostly by ghosts of the war, Satyrs, and Naga - the only Night Elven things being the ruins of the past like Eldarath and Nordressa.

[Ardenaso]

Southern Winterspring is another possible locale for Nendis - unfortunately zero evidence of Nendis' existence can be found in anywhere.

but that's already on high altitude or on a mountain at least, I don't recall seeing a lowland or port in Winterspring



Yeah it is in Aszhara, along with 2-3 more small villages on the way

They should've also remade this chapter in Reforged

[ravenmoon]

It *was* a Night Elven zone, yes; but they very clearly didn't want it anymore and there weren't really miffed to let it go in Cata. Azshara had no Night Elf settlements of note post-WotA, they avoided it for a number of good reasons. It was populated mostly by ghosts of the war, Satyrs, and Naga - the only Night Elven things being the ruins of the past like Eldarath and Nordressa.

I don't think we can say they weren't really miffed though, given their resources, and who they were up against, they fought for Azshara, and lost, . Even after treaties in War Crimes, I don't think the night elves want the horde there at all. Goblins, Garrosh, and now what happened in Sylvanas. I just feel that they would want all of Azshara back, it was taken forcibly from them.

Did the horde not set about getting rid of all of them in there, whether they were fighting them or not. If warcraft were real, I dont think the night elves would give up on Azshara, and if they were strong enough too, they would take it from the horde.

- - - Updated - - -

but that's already on high altitude or on a mountain at least, I don't recall seeing a lowland or port in Winterspring

Yeah it is in Aszhara, along with 2-3 more small villages on the way

They should've also remade this chapter in Reforged

An interesting side note, it's funny how some people think Naga, and Nightborne and Satyr and night elf lore /related. I find it funny they can think of Satyr as night elven but not Naga.. the worse of all is how some can think of Nightborne as not night elven based despit the obvious lore - and guess who most of the people who think this are? Yep, horde elf fans who basically feel the night elves are savage, animalistic, forest-only dwelling elves, feral and incapable of magic - and all the pre-sundering legacy of theirs is now horde because of the blood elves coming from the Highborne and the Nightborne went horde. This equates to nightborne having nothing to do with night elves and everything to do with blood elves, because it's not part of the Night elves.

Basically we have your stuff, let's now -recast history in our heads, and tell you when you ask for your stuff, that you have no right to it, because it belongs to the horde - reminds me of those orc npcs that go into other people's lands and homes and announce that this is horde land.

[Mace]

Except Blood Elves and Nightborne are simply better at arcane practices.
The lore tells us this.

No the lore doesn't tell you this. This is what you think.

Blood elves and Nightborne are just as good as Night elves, arcane talent and aptitude is fully present and accounted for in the healthiest form in the Night elves.

Blood elf and Nightborne arcane practice is more widespread in their communities - this is what the lore shows you. But night elf arcane users are alongside the Nightborne the oldest and most experienced users of it (not counting novices and those training). The devs even answered in a tweet a person who asked, stating quite clearly that Night elven magic users are as powerful as blood elven ones - either that or he said blood elves aren't more powerful than night elves.

A human mage can be as powerful as an elven mage - whether blood/high/void/ night or Nightborne - fyi - so to can a Gnome, goblin, orc, Draenei etc etc.

What is different between the races is the talent/aptitude for arcane i.e. arcane capability and how widespread practice is.

Night Elves
Night elves have arcane talent, aptitude and capability - this is the original magical elf race, and highborne caste are just those with the most talent in the arcane, the night elves are linked to and from the Well of Eternity, they naturally have this capability they haven't devolved (like Thalassians) nor distorted (like Shalassians). All night elves can wield the arcane, but not all night elves have the talent to become mages.

Amongst night elf society today, the practice of the arcane isn't that widespread, however it is quite prolific and proficient in the Highborne caste /group where it is just as prevalent as the mage orders amongst the Blood elves and Nightborne.

Blood Elves
Blood elves have arcane talent because they came from night elves, even after devolution their elven characteristics didn't disappear, even if they took a tiny dip, they are born like night elves with arcane capability and talent, all are able to use, only some are talented enough to be mages, but unlike Night elves, most dabble a little

Nightborne
Nightborne just are just the same as the Night elves too in this regard, but ALL dabble quite a lot, even though only some are talented enough to be mages, they are like an exaggerated version of night elven pre-sundering arcane where only the Highborne culture survived and continued in addiction till its twisted them a bit and they needed to get cured by night elves.

Other Races
So from what I understand , the elves are the only ones that have this degree of arcane capability -i.e. in every individual - they are the only ones linked to magical sources and suffused by them formed with magic inside, however all races have people that can have the talent to become mages, but not all can wield the arcane for even small things like elves do. This is because of the Night elves, whom all elves come from.

Other races have various degrees of arcane practice, but it's mostly very small, amongst the non-elven races humans and gnomes are observed to have larger amounts of arcane wielders , but not as much as the elves.

Knowledge and commonality of magical capability, as well as how widespread the use is basically the only advantage elves have. Of those who use magic, it really is down to the person and how well they trained and how talented they are. Just because more elves have the talent doesn't mean elves are the most talented.

The world's most powerful and prolific spell casters are Azshara and Illidan - both elves, Aegwyen and Medivh - human, Jaina and Khadgar too, others like Alodi (half elf), Elisande, Darth'remar, Antonidas, Anasterian Sunstrider, Kael'thas Sunstrider, Prince Farondis, Mordant Evenshade, Rommath, Estulan, Aethas Sunreaver, Thalyssra, Rhonin, Occuleth, Valtrois are noteworthy mentions and you can add Krasus and Kalecgos though they are dragons notice how dragons don't sit above necessarily the more powerful humanoid casters. It's different when you're an Aspect though I would imagine. So Malygos and Aspect Kalecgos would probably have been the most powerful magic users - though maybe Illidan and Azshara or Aegwyen and Medivh could have gone toe to toe with them.

And Nightborne are still with the Blood Elves on the Horde and it makes me so happy

Good for you, but you'd want to actually properly understand it so you're not disappointed down the line, and you get the record straight, then you can love it for what it actually is, not what you think it is but actually isn't.

[Soon-TM]

are still with the Blood Elves on the Horde and it makes me so happy

Somewhat offtopic, but I'd love them to do something, anything, with their arcane prowess. Because every time we see mages doing cool stuff in WoW, it's always humans: Medivh, Rhonin, Khadgar, Jaina... It's like no other mages in Azeroth know to cast anything beyond a vanilla fireball

[Mace]

Somewhat offtopic, but I'd love them to do something, anything, with their arcane prowess. Because every time we see mages doing cool stuff in WoW, it's always humans: Medivh, Rhonin, Khadgar, Jaina... It's like no other mages in Azeroth know to cast anything beyond a vanilla fireball

Agreed, this was my complaint about the Shen'dralar, we only know they are powerful and knoweldgeable because the lore tells us they are, but it's never shown. Sadly Tanaria is one of those people that takes the fact it is not shown to mean they aren't - which is basically saying the lore isn't correct because I haven't seen much of it in game.

WE do see Prince Farondis quite powerfully shown, and the Moonguard in Suramar, we also see lots of Nightborne we fight in the Nighthold powerfully use magic as well as the blood elves we fight in the Sunwell Plateau and Tempest Keep.

But we've seen nothing magical from:

Rommath
Aethas
Mordant Evenshade
Estulan (okay 1 frostbolt)
Anasterian


And let's be frank, what we see from Thalyssra, Valtrois and Occuleth isn't really that impressive. But when it comes to Jaina or Rhonin (in the books), Aegwyen, Khadgar - /rolleyes.

[Vaedan]

Well, it will be Suramar or Silvermoon 2.0 anyway. Because a new Night Elf capital in game would be just as useless.



I don't see them as "druidic" or "not druidic". I see them as night elven. All Night Elves are not druids, but all Night Elves have embraced druidism since the Sundering. That is a fact. They are all hellbent on protecting the balance of nature. Even those stone buildings show druidic themes. And they are all worshipping Elune too, even the druids. Especially the druids. Wherever you see night elf druids, you see a moonwell. And what are moonwells if not pools of sacred water dedicated to Elune? So why should Night Elf settlements have druidic themes? For the same reason Blood Elf/Nightborne settlements have a magic theme. It's just what they are: druids, sentinels, priestesses even those new mages.

Sure, druidism become important part of Kaldorei society, but not the only one. Night elves, as a race, are more than just protectors of nature. Can you please elaborate what you mean with that all elves embraced druidism? I'm not sure what you mean?

For me, night elves have strictly separated roles in their society. One was druidism, traditionally practised only by men. The other was worship of Goddess. While all elves believed in Elune and all elves had deep respect towards nature, society distincted both roles and had specialized groups who tended to their duties. Druids never practised any Elune related rituals and priestesses never worked with forces of nature. During WoW timeline, Highborne were allowed to rejoin their kin and added new layer to their society.

Also, as you say, night elves should not abandon their druidic traditions, moonwells and their settlements should express it. I fully agree. Is there a reason why they can't complement elegant a rafined marble buildings with druidic symbols, living wood and other things? While you are druid, does it mean that you only need to use wood? Why? And why druids themselves don't do it as a neutral group, but night elves should? It does not make sense.

They may or may not live there, people who live in temples in the real world are actually very few and I suppose it is the same for night elves. but here comes the important thing I do not deny that the shendrelar have their own houses and a building where they practice their magic! all the time i'm saying it seems right to me that they have a district and a district would be a place where people would live instead of just a temple.

what I disagree is that it is intended to eliminate what is the culture of the night elves! their way of life for 10 thousand years!

therefore I think that a new night elf capital should be like darnassus but also have a district where shendrelar can live and have their own buildings with their own characteristics.

You know, Rhlor, in a blood elf thread, you defended current state of sin'dorei, because they have their story progression and there are players who like it. Well, sin'dorei got their progression, since the story around them pushed them in the new directions. That's what you like about blood elves. They stopped doing their shady practises and embraced light.

Now, night elves have their progression too. The reason why they lived this way of life for 10 thousand years, is gone. Now there is their time for progression. Blood elves are not the only race who is allowed to have some. Being stucked in Long Vigil state does not make any sense for night elves anymore. Not after Third War, and not really after Legion's defeat. Story is pushing them now in new directions.

I have often seen the horde players support the return of the worgen to gilneas, I also saw many times the horde players complain that they always have to use dalaran and that the magicians of the horde do not have their own place.

what blizz did is blizz thing is not something that the horde players asked for, the horde players hated what happened to teldrassil and complained a lot.

but alliance players want horde cities and that is something very different.

No player in the horde does not ask to take away from the alliance one of its racial capitals.

Well, that's because Horde does not have any group with former ties to the Alliance cities, but the Alliance has groups with ties to those Horde cities.

Orcs were never part of Ironforge communities. Trolls never lived in Exodar. Tauren never dwelled in Gnomeregan. They have no connection. Undead (thus Lordaeronians) did not live in Stormwind.

High elves and void elves lived in Silvermoon. Humans lived in Lordaeron (and stormwind houses many survivors and exiles from Lordaeron). Night elves lived in Suramar. Their stories are connected. I understand some players want to adress it and be able to interact with places which are important for the race they play.

I don't want to say that Horde should be sharing these cities with the Alliance. I'm just saying why some people want to do so.

Even though I enjoy void elves and I really look forward to new high elvish customizations which are about to come in Shadowlands, I really feel that this "elven swap" in allied races caused too much troubles. If nightborne went to the Alliance, nobody woud deny that they could have pre-sundering style cities. If void elves would be on the Horde, they could bring back that old charm of TBC era blood elves and could create interesting stories in the duality of sin'dorei. Well, things went differently, but in the end, both sides lack any meaningful progress for each of their elven nations so far.

Agreed, this was my complaint about the Shen'dralar, we only know they are powerful and knoweldgeable because the lore tells us they are, but it's never shown. Sadly Tanaria is one of those people that takes the fact it is not shown to mean they aren't - which is basically saying the lore isn't correct because I haven't seen much of it in game.

WE do see Prince Farondis quite powerfully shown, and the Moonguard in Suramar, we also see lots of Nightborne we fight in the Nighthold powerfully use magic as well as the blood elves we fight in the Sunwell Plateau and Tempest Keep.

But we've seen nothing magical from:

Rommath
Aethas
Mordant Evenshade
Estulan (okay 1 frostbolt)
Anasterian


And let's be frank, what we see from Thalyssra, Valtrois and Occuleth isn't really that impressive. But when it comes to Jaina or Rhonin (in the books), Aegwyen, Khadgar - /rolleyes.

You are right. Occuleth just serves as portal man, nothing else really. Valtrois seems to be more as a scholar with excelent theoretical knowledge of leylines, but not really skilled in practic use of magic. Thalyssra showed some nice tricks in Legion, but as of BfA... well, she just went panic when Jaina approached them in a Stormwind Jail Break scenario. I expected way more from First Arcanist then "RUN, SHE IS WAY TOO POWERFULL!!" As Azshara said in the Circle of Stars, First Arcanist indeed.

[Tuor]

Funny logic that though, considering the mages didn't take part in the war, only 3 did, the rest were making portals and away on foreign business. and guess what, when your tree is burning, which apprentices and novices would get away first? Wouldn't it be the ones closest to the mage trainer opening the portals..

In all liklilhood their ratio now would be much higher than it was pre-WoT

At least i still try to use logic instead of wishes.

but that's already on high altitude or on a mountain at least, I don't recall seeing a lowland or port in Winterspring



Yeah it is in Aszhara, along with 2-3 more small villages on the way

They should've also remade this chapter in Reforged

We all know that they haven't built anything for 10k years, could that be the place were they went to rest? Both Astranaar and Auberdine don't even apear in the original maps (actually i think i can check that, has i still have the game installed).

EDIT:
RoC map is always the same, and it only mention's a Furbolg camp, not a single mention to any NElf town in both RoC or TFT.

[Rhlor]

Sure, druidism become important part of Kaldorei society, but not the only one. Night elves, as a race, are more than just protectors of nature. Can you please elaborate what you mean with that all elves embraced druidism? I'm not sure what you mean?

For me, night elves have strictly separated roles in their society. One was druidism, traditionally practised only by men. The other was worship of Goddess. While all elves believed in Elune and all elves had deep respect towards nature, society distincted both roles and had specialized groups who tended to their duties. Druids never practised any Elune related rituals and priestesses never worked with forces of nature. During WoW timeline, Highborne were allowed to rejoin their kin and added new layer to their society.

Also, as you say, night elves should not abandon their druidic traditions, moonwells and their settlements should express it. I fully agree. Is there a reason why they can't complement elegant a rafined marble buildings with druidic symbols, living wood and other things? While you are druid, does it mean that you only need to use wood? Why? And why druids themselves don't do it as a neutral group, but night elves should? It does not make sense.



You know, Rhlor, in a blood elf thread, you defended current state of sin'dorei, because they have their story progression and there are players who like it. Well, sin'dorei got their progression, since the story around them pushed them in the new directions. That's what you like about blood elves. They stopped doing their shady practises and embraced light.

Now, night elves have their progression too. The reason why they lived this way of life for 10 thousand years, is gone. Now there is their time for progression. Blood elves are not the only race who is allowed to have some. Being stucked in Long Vigil state does not make any sense for night elves anymore. Not after Third War, and not really after Legion's defeat. Story is pushing them now in new directions.



Well, that's because Horde does not have any group with former ties to the Alliance cities, but the Alliance has groups with ties to those Horde cities.

Orcs were never part of Ironforge communities. Trolls never lived in Exodar. Tauren never dwelled in Gnomeregan. They have no connection. Undead (thus Lordaeronians) did not live in Stormwind.

High elves and void elves lived in Silvermoon. Humans lived in Lordaeron (and stormwind houses many survivors and exiles from Lordaeron). Night elves lived in Suramar. Their stories are connected. I understand some players want to adress it and be able to interact with places which are important for the race they play.

I don't want to say that Horde should be sharing these cities with the Alliance. I'm just saying why some people want to do so.

Even though I enjoy void elves and I really look forward to new high elvish customizations which are about to come in Shadowlands, I really feel that this "elven swap" in allied races caused too much troubles. If nightborne went to the Alliance, nobody woud deny that they could have pre-sundering style cities. If void elves would be on the Horde, they could bring back that old charm of TBC era blood elves and could create interesting stories in the duality of sin'dorei. Well, things went differently, but in the end, both sides lack any meaningful progress for each of their elven nations so far.



You are right. Occuleth just serves as portal man, nothing else really. Valtrois seems to be more as a scholar with excelent theoretical knowledge of leylines, but not really skilled in practic use of magic. Thalyssra showed some nice tricks in Legion, but as of BfA... well, she just went panic when Jaina approached them in a Stormwind Jail Break scenario. I expected way more from First Arcanist then "RUN, SHE IS WAY TOO POWERFULL!!" As Azshara said in the Circle of Stars, First Arcanist indeed.

Because I like the progression of story, I do not like this idea of changing 10,000 years of cultural development to return to the forms of the old empire! And it is for that same reason that I want the Shendrelar to have their own district with their own buildings that represent their way of life, because the Shendrelar returned and that is a development of history too and they deserve representation.

But it is one thing that they have representation within the culture dominated by the Druidic style and another is that the whole society changes from one moment to another by a group of newcomers.

That is why I say again that it seems good to me that in the new night elf capital we see structures similar to the time of the empire where the Shendrelar live and that we also see Druidic-style structures that represent the cultural mainstream.

that would show consistent story development


any troll or tauren can claim that much of azeroth belongs to them. but even so that is not the important thing, what seems important to me is that the players of the alliance have to accept that these are the racial capitals of the horde.

[ravenmoon]

At least i still try to use logic instead of wishes.

What are you trying to say to me exactly with this Tuor?

[Tuor]

What are you trying to say to me exactly with this Tuor?

I am not even trying to say anything, i am saying it already. The fact that you and Mace don't like nature theme, which has always been the main (and original) theme for NElfs.

At the moment, we don't have any themed nature main city (we had Darnassus, its gonne), why should we even have more concreate?

[ravenmoon]

We all know that they haven't built anything for 10k years, could that be the place were they went to rest? Both Astranaar and Auberdine don't even apear in the original maps (actually i think i can check that, has i still have the game installed).

He says, conveniently forgetting Darnassus. And that the Nightborne haven't built anything at all, but won't find it surprising if they built a second Suramar, but would find it surprising that night elves, wielding both arcane and nature magic that built places like Suramar in the first place in pre-sundering time, would struggle to build it again when they have both the ancients with the knowledge and the very Highborne group responsible for engineering Queen Azshara's astonishing wonders "often processing them in secret"


Yet, it is somehow hard to believe that night elves can build that sort of stuff having the knowledge, expertise and magic, and quite capable of living in it, but they some how won't, they will build rural and forest village type buildings in a city mostly occupied by priests, Highborne, craftsmen and tradesmen - instead of the very druids who would be living in the forests. Yes, I see.

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I am not even trying to say anything, i am saying it already. The fact that you and Mace don't like nature theme, which has always been the main (and original) theme for NElfs.

At the moment, we don't have any themed nature main city (we had Darnassus, its gonne), why should we even have more concreate?

I'm a druid main, I love the nature theme, a lot, I want elegant cities alive with nature, I just don't want village architecture for a city.

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@Tuor And just because I like night elves having more than nature to them, including their arcane legacy and history, their demon hunting fel capability and actually want them to continue to be great in them because I like the race staying true to its original concept and diversity - doesn't mean I hate druidism or the nature theme - it means I like authenticity and the original vision of the night elves as night elves (dual arcane/nature) - even if I lean more to the forest side, advocating for and defending what the lore shows us about the arcane side is not = "don't like the nature theme".

[Vaedan]

Because I like the progression of story, I do not like this idea of changing 10,000 years of cultural development to return to the forms of the old empire! And it is for that same reason that I want the Shendrelar to have their own district with their own buildings that represent their way of life, because the Shendrelar returned and that is a development of history too and they deserve representation.

Yes, they indeed need representation. I would not even mind Illidari representation in both new kaldorei capital and in Silvermoon as well. Nothing major, not openly visible, perhaps in some hidden corners of the city, but I think it could be nice touch.

But it is one thing that they have representation within the culture dominated by the Druidic style and another is that the whole society changes from one moment to another by a group of newcomers.

That is why I say again that it seems good to me that in the new night elf capital we see structures similar to the time of the empire where the Shendrelar live and that we also see Druidic-style structures that represent the cultural mainstream.

that would show consistent story development

I believe that certainly nobody wants night elves to become 100% their pre-sundering era. No, that does not make any sense for them. Long Vigil tought them. All posters who are pro night elven cities in imperial style are all saying that we want to see combination of that style with their druidic themes. I'm glad you agree with us on that matter. We only have different view on what is really druidic.

any troll or tauren can claim that much of azeroth belongs to them. but even so that is not the important thing, what seems important to me is that the players of the alliance have to accept that these are the racial capitals of the horde.

I'm not sure about tauren. They werent that widespread as elves or trolls, they were never really expansive. I agree that trolls could claim many territories, but they lost many of them by conquest, so their claim is diminished by that. I'm personaly ok with Horde having these cities exclusively for their races. The only one in question is now Lordaeron. Actually, Alliance conquered it and Horde abandoned it and made sure it is unhabitable. I think Blizzard should adress it at some point in future, hopefully sooner then Gilneas, and while they do it, they can probably resolve Gilneas story as well. Forsaken needs their home too and worgen are now twice homeless.

[Mace]

But it is one thing that they have representation within the culture dominated by the Druidic style and another is that the whole society changes from one moment to another by a group of newcomers.

.

Ah but this is where you err - you feel the large druidic presence you see means that the group can't or won't use it's on urban architecture or style.

It's your impression of the druidic dominance and what it means that you should revisit and look for all the areas both the arcane and Elune the priesthood show up, as well as demon hunters in the story of the night elves - then check the Darnassian group as it is now.

And what will this group build for a city now, with Highborne and the arcane back, compared to what they built after WC3, with just druids and ancient trees as a capital for night elves.

What you must accept is that Night elves are not a 100% wood elf race, even though it APPEARS like the wood elf theme is very strong - this is a visual illusion because of what you are use to seeing rather than based on the full consideration of the race, their story and why they are where they are.

Once you understand this in detail, it would be easy to accept that the nIght elves are night elves, they are not blood elves, they're not defined by having druidism alone, they define the elven traits including the arcane, it starts with them and it is still in them. Blood elves get this from them, not the other way round. You must factor in what the story shows you. I know it's hard because actually the first elves we met were the High elves, so they tend to dominate our idea of what elf means, and night elves we can relegate to niche forest elf group. This is not the story of Warcraft. You must see night elves through the lens of the whole picture and the vision of the developers to actually properly understand and frame them.

Once you do, it will not surprise you or puzzle you why night elves would have an amazing city pre-sundering style. It should also shock you if blizzard use village buildings for a city. They didn't even do that in Darnassus, the wood buildings they used had a unique design, even though that city was mostly dominated by it's pre-sundering architecture.

The identity of the night elves is carried in the priestly and arcane culture, their attributes in the druidic culture, and their ability in their arcane origin.

[Frontenac]

Sure, druidism become important part of Kaldorei society, but not the only one. Night elves, as a race, are more than just protectors of nature. Can you please elaborate what you mean with that all elves embraced druidism? I'm not sure what you mean?

But it is the only one. Everything the Night Elves did since the Sundering has been around protecting the natural balance of the world. That's the very reason why they abandonned arcane magic for nature based magic. That's the very core of their culture. Even the cult of Elune is entwined with druidism as a philosophy. Elune is Malorne's mate and Cenarius' mother. She's also close to Ysera, keeper of the Emerald Dream, which the druids help to protect.

For me, night elves have strictly separated roles in their society. One was druidism, traditionally practised only by men. The other was worship of Goddess. While all elves believed in Elune and all elves had deep respect towards nature, society distincted both roles and had specialized groups who tended to their duties. Druids never practised any Elune related rituals and priestesses never worked with forces of nature. During WoW timeline, Highborne were allowed to rejoin their kin and added new layer to their society.

While it is true that druidism was once only practiced by men, the tenets of druidism and the respect the druids had for the Ancients were shared by all Night Elves. Same for the priestesses. While they were the only ones presiding over the rituals dedicated to Elune, all Night Elves worshipped Elune. And now a few Highborne returned into the fold and are beginning to train new mages. But these new mages were all raised as nature loving Night Elves. They will be mages concerned with nature. It's like the draenei shamans. They do not stop worshipping the Light just because they now can commune with the Elements. As Velen said, it's a new way of serving the Light.

In the real Middle Ages, society was divided in three estates. The Clergy and the Nobility had very distinct roles. Yet the nobles were still worshipping Jesus Christ. And every aspect of society, including art and architecture, showed that catholicism even though not everyone was presiding over mass or singing the psalms at vespers.

Also, as you say, night elves should not abandon their druidic traditions, moonwells and their settlements should express it. I fully agree. Is there a reason why they can't complement elegant a rafined marble buildings with druidic symbols, living wood and other things? While you are druid, does it mean that you only need to use wood? Why? And why druids themselves don't do it as a neutral group, but night elves should? It does not make sense.

Well, they already do, as you said. So why should Blizzard change anything? But Night Elves never were about big sprawling cities and palatial homes in the first place, not since the Sundering. And now that they were greatly crippled, I doubt they could do it even if they wanted to. Also, in the beginning, the concept was that the Night Elves were growing their buildings rather than building them. That meant wood.

[Aucald]

but that's already on high altitude or on a mountain at least, I don't recall seeing a lowland or port in Winterspring

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...c17cf21ae1d495

Yeah it is in Aszhara, along with 2-3 more small villages on the way

They should've also remade this chapter in Reforged

But, as you can clearly see from the map image there, the mapping of WC3 to WoW is pretty far from 1:1. Azshara in WC3 looks nothing like it does in WoW, and Winterspring isn't even geographically in the same place as in WoW.

[Mace]

But, as you can clearly see from the map image there, the mapping of WC3 to WoW is pretty far from 1:1. Azshara in WC3 looks nothing like it does in WoW, and Winterspring isn't even geographically in the same place as in WoW.

Even the world map of WoW itself isn't 1:1 apparently it's scaled down too in game. Which makes sense, it would be a pretty weird world if it was to scale.

[Aucald]

I don't think we can say they weren't really miffed though, given their resources, and who they were up against, they fought for Azshara, and lost, . Even after treaties in War Crimes, I don't think the night elves want the horde there at all. Goblins, Garrosh, and now what happened in Sylvanas. I just feel that they would want all of Azshara back, it was taken forcibly from them.

Did the horde not set about getting rid of all of them in there, whether they were fighting them or not. If warcraft were real, I dont think the night elves would give up on Azshara, and if they were strong enough too, they would take it from the horde.

Probably not, really. As I recall the Night Elves ceded Azshara back in Cata/MoP in the interest of continued peace, and even before then the damage was basically done (by the Goblins). Beyond that the basic point remains, the Night Elves had little to no interest in Azshara, and that equation wouldn't have changed. The post-Sundering Night Elves have never been imperialistic, either; so it'd be a rather major change in their social ethos for them to violently claim territory.

I think it's more likely that the Night Elves are prone to secure Nordrassil and Hyjal, and I can certainly see them becoming more xenophobic given the nature of what happened to them in BfA.

- - - Updated - - -

Even the world map of WoW itself isn't 1:1 apparently it's scaled down too in game. Which makes sense, it would be a pretty weird world if it was to scale.

I'm not just talking scale, though; the geographical position of things are completely different. Winterspring not being to the north of Azshara but rather to the west, Ashenvale being to the southwest, Moonglade bordering Azshara? It's a completely different map. Even then, Azshara has no ruins of Nendis - actually Nendis is nowhere to be found at all in Kalimdor, confusingly enough.

[Mace]

But it is the only one. Everything the Night Elves did since the Sundering has been around protecting the natural balance of the world. That's the very reason why they abandonned arcane magic for nature based magic. That's the very core of their culture. Even the cult of Elune is entwined with druidism as a philosophy. Elune is Malorne's mate and Cenarius' mother. She's also close to Ysera, keeper of the Emerald Dream, which the druids help to protect.

I think you conflate what druids do with what all night elves do.

Druids protect the natural balance of the world, and it's not the only thing they do. What all Night elves of that group did (incl druids) was guard the Well of Eternity and prevent it's use for arcane spells to prevent the return of the Burning legion again to our world.

Lore shows us other night elves like those in Suramar (Moonguard and city) as well as those in Eldre'thalas living a different life to that.

So no, it is not the very reason why they abandoned arcane magic. Arcane magic PRACTICE (not the arcane itself) was banned in order to prevent the Legion's return, not "protect the natural balance of the world"

While it is true that druidism was once only practiced by men, the tenets of druidism and the respect the druids had for the Ancients were shared by all Night Elves. Same for the priestesses. While they were the only ones presiding over the rituals dedicated to Elune, all Night Elves worshipped Elune. And now a few Highborne returned into the fold and are beginning to train new mages. But these new mages were all raised as nature loving Night Elves. They will be mages concerned with nature. It's like the draenei shamans. They do not stop worshipping the Light just because they now can commune with the Elements. As Velen said, it's a new way of serving the Light.

In the real Middle Ages, society was divided in three estates. The Clergy and the Nobility had very distinct roles. Yet the nobles were still worshipping Jesus Christ. And every aspect of society, including art and architecture, showed that catholicism even though not everyone was presiding over mass or singing the psalms at vespers.

Vaedan isn't wrong here, the evidence clearly shows Night elves involved in other things. I think again you are conflating differences between racial attributes and tenets with actually what the castes (or Orders actually did).

All Night elves have a love for nature and appreciation. Not all night elves are dedicated to nature
All Night elves believe in Elune as a true Goddess. Not all are devoted followers of Elune
All Night elves have an inherent arcane essence and affinity. Not all night elves study the arcane - and nowadays only the Highborne caste and Moonguard ones touch it

Priests may revere the wilds and protect it with their lives but they're not sown to the lifestyle of the druid living in Barrowdens or trees. This is why Priests move back to temples after the Long Vigil ends as seen in Darnassus and Val'Sharah.

Druids may worship and praise Elune, but they're not attending to the spiritual needs of the people, the rituals and precepts of Elune, they're doing their job.

Highborne may like nature as pretty, but in Azshara's reign, many stopped revering the wilds, but this is a choice, descendants like the High elves or pre-sundering highborne culture like the Nightborne may choose never to revere nature, but others can. We see Nightborne have come to need it for health in the Arcan'dor, and do you think the Highborne amongst the Darnassians, with powerful wielders like Malfurion would be dismissive of the wilds? We also see some Highborne like Farondis praise Elune. I cover this in detail in my opening post in the thread. Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

Well, they already do, as you said. So why should Blizzard change anything? But Night Elves never were about big sprawling cities and palatial homes in the first place, not since the Sundering. And now that they were greatly crippled, I doubt they could do it even if they wanted to. Also, in the beginning, the concept was that the Night Elves were growing their buildings rather than building them. That meant wood.

Here I would also say that Night elves have no reason any longer to ban or shun the arcane, so why should they continue to ignore it? They do not, evidently as shown in the Highborne, should their society ignore everything but druidism? No, and it doesn't.

Arcane practice, highborne , civilization, all these things are back for very good reasons, and night elves have reasons tied to both their innate characteristic to practice druidism, the arcane and Elunism, and they have institutions i.e. castes that specialise in these.

Should we therefore feel that druidism prohibits night elves from building cities or practicing arcane or living outside the forest? Ofc not, seeing that we know not all night elves are druids, and we are aware of the Highborne caste, the Priest caste, craftsmen, tradesmen, - these are all non-druid night elves. Who have a love of nature, (may revere the wilds), have an innate arcane capability and affinity and know/believe in the Goddess even if they don't worship her devotedly.

The point of this is realising and understanding that the night elves are more than a druidic culture. They always were. There are several elements and bits to them. We are shown this clearly. Are we to assume because the levelling experience saw a lot of forests and druids therefore it's the only thing to them and it precludes everything else? Then how about Darnassus an actual city that's not a forest, with night elves living it? What about the returned Highborne and all the new night elven mages they are training who obviously come from the Darnassian group's population? Do we just ignore this and pretend their numbers are so insignificant because it doesn't fit our narrative and conclude they are not night elven or representative of the race that actually has the tradition and legacy for this?

No! Do we assume that they can't or won't build cities or live in them because we notice the druidism, because when we levelled the only night elves we saw in TBC and WotLK were druids, so we assumed of class expeditions that all night elves were druids even though the lore told us other things -it's just that the game didn't show it, and by the time it showed it, we had lost interest and stuck to our initial experience, not following the change that was unfolded before us?!