[Spoilers] Shadows Rising Excerpt

[razorpax]

so anduin is a pawn to someone because he never goes straight to thinking about murder unless his mind is being messed with especially someone close to him

[Feanoro]

They held onto old grudges and assumptions that all orcs were bad. Blackmoore did start a war cause he mistreated thrall tried to use him as a weapon and slaved his people. Daelin followed suit and did the same thing. Who started really? Humans did when they just kept attacking them.

Read up more on these things.

Blackmoore was the warden of the internment camps, which were an unpopular measure for dealing with the defeated orcs. Since the Dark Portal was closed (and even if it hadn't been, shoving them through it wouldn't guarantee they couldn't coming roaring right back), there were two realistic options: death or imprisonment. No one sane would suggest letting the monsters that nearly wiped out a continent roam free. Further, you can hardly expect the guards to be neutral. Given the extent of the Old Horde's massacres, it'd be hard to find anyone as guards who hadn't lost family, friends, or their home village. Blackmoore's plans for Thrall were treason against the Alliance, as he planned to lead the Horde via Thrall against them to forge himself a kingdom. When it came, the escape from the camps wasn't simply orcs quietly walking out the doors. It was a violent uprising at each camp, with Thrall smashing down the walls with the elements, confirming every fear people had that the orcs had been biding their time.

They next fled to the shipyards, attacking and killing their way into seizing possession of the ships that would carry them to Kalimdor. Much like not letting the greatest threat they had ever known roam free, Daelin Proudmoore set off in pursuit of them, to prevent them growing strong enough to finish what the Old Horde had started, to find and protect his daughter, and to avenge his son. Modern WoW vastly overplays magic, but by the time Daelin caught up with them, Hyjal had happened but he had no knowledge of it. Jaina, who had always been naive and idealistic, was not enough to convince him to overlook the possibility of the orcs' continued threat, especially given their so-peaceful escape from the camps.

Trying to claim the orcs just wanted peace and were never responsible for how they're viewed is ignorant of the lore at best and apologist at worst.

[Ardenaso]

They next fled to the shipyards, attacking and killing their way into seizing possession of the ships that would carry them to Kalimdor.

just so you know, Thrall ordered the civilians to be spared

[Kathranis]

But Talanji holding a grudge against the Alliance is just weird, considering everything the Alliance did was in response to Zandalari aggression - simply put - they started it

Having just recently played through the Alliance quests, almost all of them are framed not as reactionary, but as Shaw and company attempting to preemptively sabotage the Zandalari fleet and weaken them before the Horde can finish negotiations. In the end they drive the Zandalari to join the Horde.

[Hyral]

They next fled to the shipyards, attacking and killing their way into seizing possession of the ships that would carry them to Kalimdor. Much like not letting the greatest threat they had ever known roam free, Daelin Proudmoore set off in pursuit of them, to prevent them growing strong enough to finish what the Old Horde had started, to find and protect his daughter, and to avenge his son. Modern WoW vastly overplays magic, but by the time Daelin caught up with them, Hyjal had happened but he had no knowledge of it. Jaina, who had always been naive and idealistic, was not enough to convince him to overlook the possibility of the orcs' continued threat, especially given their so-peaceful escape from the camps.

Trying to claim the orcs just wanted peace and were never responsible for how they're viewed is ignorant of the lore at best and apologist at worst.

Wow, finally someone who knows their stuff. I was pretty excited for BfA thinking they would finally do Daelin justice, because portraying him as anything but a hero during that battle is unacceptable, but in the end it was more of the same stupidity that if you try to hold criminals accountable and want to protect your people you are evil. Now Talanji is getting the same treatment.

[Vaedan]

Having just recently played through the Alliance quests, almost all of them are framed not as reactionary, but as Shaw and company attempting to preemptively sabotage the Zandalari fleet and weaken them before the Horde can finish negotiations. In the end they drive the Zandalari to join the Horde.

Zandalari got similar treatment as Theremare. Zandalari openly supported Horde during times of war, housed their armies, aided them with their offensive on several ocasions, so it all made Dazar'alor valid target for the Alliance. Being your city raided by a force that is in war with your new allies you are openly supporting is something you need to take into consideration.

You can't blame Talanji for wanting at least some reaction for the Battle, but well, she really brought it upon Zandalari.

[Ardenaso]

Zandalari got similar treatment as Theremare. Zandalari openly supported Horde during times of war, housed their armies, aided them with their offensive on several ocasions, so it all made Dazar'alor valid target for the Alliance. Being your city raided by a force that is in war with your new allies you are openly supporting is something you need to take into consideration.

You can't blame Talanji for wanting at least some reaction for the Battle, but well, she really brought it upon Zandalari.

hey at least Genn or Jaina didn't capture Zandalari civilians and turned them into target practice or made them kill each other for entertainment

[ParanoiD84]

It's what i expected from blizzard writers but decent for a tie in book i guess.

[chrisisvacant]

Just in that excerpt...

Talanji snarled
Talanji replied hotly
Thalysra interjected wisely
Lor'themar put in reasonably
Rhokan thundered

It reads like propaganda. Anyone with a legitimate grievance is just brash and thoughtless, anyone for peace is wise and Reasonable™, it's so dull and blatant. But that's just par for the course with this franchise. That used to be Warcraft.

"Wisely" and "reasonably" really grind my gears - I hate it when authors act as moral compasses in books. That's not really the job of the author in books like these. Your opinion of the characters' actions is irrelevant and up to the audience to decide/interpret, imo.

[Kathranis]

But these quests take place after the Zandalari have joined the Horde, plus we're ignoring the countless expamples of Zandalari aggression in the past

They were working together but the Zandalari don't formally join the Horde until after Talanji's coronation.

[Skytotem]

They were working together but the Zandalari don't formally join the Horde until after Talanji's coronation.

To be frank if the Horse were in Jainas shoes would they care about formalities?

[Kathranis]

To be frank if the Horse were in Jainas shoes would they care about formalities?

I'm just saying the Horde were helping the Zandalari with domestic affairs (Zul, blood trolls, sethrakk, G'huun) and the Alliance set out to sabotage the Zandalari to preemptively undermine their utility to the Horde before they could form an alliance.

Obviously Zul's past activities and the escape from Stormwind muddy the waters, but I don't recall the Zandalari ever acting as aggressors against the Alliance during the Fourth War, or even setting foot on Kul Tiras. Honestly, on both sides of the War Campaign it was mostly the Horde attacking Kul Tirans and the Alliance attacking the Zandalari, with the Zandalari and Kul Tirans not really fighting in the conflict much, if at all.

[Feanoro]

But these quests take place after the Zandalari have joined the Horde, plus we're ignoring the countless expamples of Zandalari aggression in the past

The Alliance has every right to view the Zandalari as enemies based on those two causes.

1) Zandalari have previously attacked the Alliance.
2) Zandalari are providing aid and comfort to the Horde during a war the Horde is conducting. Horde is clearly seeking a formal subjugation (anyone who has joined the Horde until now has given up their sovereignty to the Warchief).

[Skytotem]

I'm just saying the Horde were helping the Zandalari with domestic affairs (Zul, blood trolls, sethrakk, G'huun) and the Alliance set out to sabotage the Zandalari to preemptively undermine their utility to the Horde before they could form an alliance.

Obviously Zul's past activities and the escape from Stormwind muddy the waters, but I don't recall the Zandalari ever acting as aggressors against the Alliance during the Fourth War, or even setting foot on Kul Tiras. Honestly, on both sides of the War Campaign it was mostly the Horde attacking Kul Tirans and the Alliance attacking the Zandalari, with the Zandalari and Kul Tirans not really fighting in the conflict much, if at all.

Faction assaults take place prior to Dazar'alor, I think?

[Kathranis]

Faction assaults take place prior to Dazar'alor, I think?

Yeah, but I don't think the Zandalari are involved in any of the attacks on Kul Tiras, are they?

[Skytotem]

Yeah, but I don't think the Zandalari are involved in any of the attacks on Kul Tiras, are they?

Ah, I was thinking of this quest.

https://www.wowhead.com/quest=54703/express-delivery