Apple Silicon - finally an alternative to x86 on desktop

[Temp name]

These news are exciting indeed!



This was adressed in the keynote. Rosetta 2 is included, x86_64 apps are recompiled upon installation. Seems it works quite well too if Apple are to believed on the topic. But we will have to wait and see of course.

I have my doubts that it'll work super well at the beginning. All the first party apps will of course work just fine, but 2nd and 3rd party apps will probably have a lot of bugs, or just flat out not work for a while.
At least that's my guess.

[Thoriangun]

I am more curious about the full software on Mac OS, that is final cut working on Ipad?

Yes you may not get as powerful feature set but to be able to do some editing work or touch ups on the move is quite powerful if you don't want to carry anything beyond a tablet.

I know on a day to day basis, I will be carrying my tablet to work and back, but not really my laptop in this use case scenario, this is powerful for me and probably get a ARM based mac if it lets me do this - to my understanding final cut pro is specific to your account, not per device licence and is lifetime that so far has received free updates, something other vendors should take note.

[ldev]

to my understanding final cut pro is specific to your account, not per device licence and is lifetime that so far has received free updates, something other vendors should take note.

I know, right? Bought FCPX 5 years ago for one time payment of 330 eur or so, meanwhile Adobe Premiere over 5 years would cost 1500 eur, what a load of crap.

So far I haven't heard any plans to bring FCPX to iPads, but, imo, it's only a question of time, because lines between macbooks and ipads are getting thinner and thinner.

[Thoriangun]

I know, right? Bought FCPX 5 years ago for one time payment of 330 eur or so, meanwhile Adobe Premiere over 5 years would cost 1500 eur, what a load of crap.

So far I haven't heard any plans to bring FCPX to iPads, but, imo, it's only a question of time, because lines between macbooks and ipads are getting thinner and thinner.

Yeah, and other software makers are following similar suit, take Vegas for example, they have been releasing new version almost every year now or close to year and half at full price - yes you can upgrade at a discount for the new features but that still makes the platform more expensive then FCPX and makes FCPX better value.

I bet there will be people happy to pay 300 which ever currency you are on the Ipad and have it work on all of their ecosystem bar phones, I would and this would mean I know I would buy a mac down the line to make the whole system better as I am wanting to edit more and more videos.

[Twoddle]

Right. Acorn Archimedes says hi - ARM on desktop in 1987.

I had one of those! Best programming years of my life!

Then the PC era came and we all turned into "users" and everything went downhill from thereon in.

[Hollycakes]

I had one of those! Best programming years of my life!

Then the PC era came and we all turned into "users" and everything went downhill from thereon in.

For some reason this reminds me of Tron. The original. You sitting in an arcade you own, having a blast programming the night away on your Sinclair Spectrum.

[Mister K]

Really now? I have never seen a big community on the internet or in real life doing programming or video editing on an ARM laptop before. Chromebooks with Linux installed sometimes pop up, but they are like a unicorn. Come 2021 - every coffee shop will have dozens of ARM laptops.

Technically you are correct, but...

Unless ARM is better than your standard x86, people will not be purchasing it for professional environment (unless you getting a MAC). Also FC is good but mainly for Videographers/Hobbyist/Vloggers. A lot of people use Premiere/Resolve/Avid for pro work, so unless support there is strong, again it's going to drive people away.

Competition is good though so lets see tho...

[ldev]

Unless ARM is better than your standard x86, people will not be purchasing it for professional environment (unless you getting a MAC). Also FC is good but mainly for Videographers/Hobbyist/Vloggers. A lot of people use Premiere/Resolve/Avid for pro work, so unless support there is strong, again it's going to drive people away.

Competition is good though so lets see tho...

Adobe already on board.

FC was good enough for Parasite, it won an oscar, so I sense some prejudice. Probably instilled by old farts who saw magnetic timeline and went "OMG IT'S DIFFERENT I CUT MY TAPES THE OLD WAY AND I WANT OLD WAY OF CUTTING DIGITAL MEDIA TOO" and then parroted by the internet folk who take pro opinions as facts and never even tried opening a couple of NLEs. FCPX has disadvantages compared to competition, but being not pro and only for hobbyists is not one of them.

[Mister K]

Adobe already on board.

FC was good enough for Parasite, it won an oscar, so I sense some prejudice. Probably instilled by old farts who saw magnetic timeline and went "OMG IT'S DIFFERENT I CUT MY TAPES THE OLD WAY AND I WANT OLD WAY OF CUTTING DIGITAL MEDIA TOO" and then parroted by the internet folk who take pro opinions as facts and never even tried opening a couple of NLEs. FCPX has disadvantages compared to competition, but being not pro and only for hobbyists is not one of them.

Final Cut Pro 7... (a lot of Korean shows use FCP7). It's outdated and not the industry standard. It's not "a new way to cut" infact it's quite the opposite, making the workflow overaly harder. Sure you can use any tool, hell I can whip out Windows Movie maker and make decent short piece that will probably be better than someone who speed ramps with Premiere Pro (YouTuber wannabes). Also Parasite did not win an Oscar for the NLE.

For commercial work and like I said in my original comment, Final Cut is just not acceptable. If you are a one man band it won't matter as long as the final work is good. but why limit your self. Resolve shits on Final Cut and so does Premiere (Adobe ecosystem is juicy). Sure FC has great rendering engine and exporting a video is lighting fast, but that don't mean much (inb4 time is money).

When cutting something for the sake of the story/film, NLE really doesn't matter but workflow does matter in a collaborative space.

Again while editing on ARM is going to be possible and maybe even useful (especially if you can use iPad on the go to make a rough cut / amendments) I simply cannot see it competing against solid workstations for professionals that are running Xeons, Threadrippers, Ryzen 9s/i7s and so forth. A lot of post-houses won't go ARM. If the performance is strong or better (needs to be better) then sure, but again, it won't.

[Ange]

Apples reasoning for changes is never about state of the art hardware.

Its one or multiple out of this:

* lower the cost for this apple "niche" productline

* avoid (MOSTLY) negative comparisons with the competition using the same/similar hardware

* streamline phone/tablet/PC-mockup look-and-feel in apps


Most postings here assume positive performance benefits for the user out of this. When was the last time this was even the goal for apple?

[Stormspark]

Apples reasoning for changes is never about state of the art hardware.

Its one or multiple out of this:

* lower the cost for this apple "niche" productline

* avoid (MOSTLY) negative comparisons with the competition using the same/similar hardware

* streamline phone/tablet/PC-mockup look-and-feel in apps


Most postings here assume positive performance benefits for the user out of this. When was the last time this was even the goal for apple?

Lower cost means lower cost for them, not the end user. They will likely charge just as much, or more. So more accurate to say "increased profit margin".

[Gaidax]

Most postings here assume positive performance benefits for the user out of this. When was the last time this was even the goal for apple?

I mean... it is a goal for Apple clearly when it comes to ARM - they are consistently one generation ahead of alternatives and they know this edge is worth a lot.

Whether it will translate to their laptops and desktops remains to be seen, but let's not go full blind hatred there, shall we? They are pretty serious when it comes to ARM performance.

Yes, it's all about profits in the end, but I imagine even Apple got tired of Intel's 14nm++++++++++++++ crap - they are literally sitting in their shit for years now letting AMD wreck them while they do their 500th refresh. All in all, Apple can't sell you a new MacBook Pro when its sporting same old shit CPU repackaged and rebranded by Intel with some measly 5% performance increase and this shit going on for years now.

[Niwes]

I am a SW Dev since 20+ years and we discussed the same after WWDC.

Our thoughts:

Foremost first reason for Apple to do this, is to make even more money with shit they sell as gold. Its not that its shit per se, but the solely reason is they can produce it cheap via Foxconn and use the same Architecture, Components, Layouts etc for all their devices. Long term they save A LOT of money. But they will not offer a cheaper MacBook etc. Their prices went horrible over board in the last few years. They make cheap hardware at Foxconn (Apples hardware in their MacBooks and Desktop stuff is not great) and sell it via the „Apple way“ like gold. Its absurd what you pay Apple and what you get for that amount of money in these days. Apple Silicon offers them the possibility to sell it for the same price (or even more lol) while investing 30% less. its way more cheap for them (not us) to use their CPUs than pay licenses for Intel. Ofc Intel also wanna make money, even when Apple has a great deal with Intel. Apple wanna safe this money while Foxconn also safes money by cheap production (if Foxconn ppl stop jumping out of windows ^^). So reason 1 is just simply to make more profit.

Reason 2 is they have full control over hardware and software. this means they can design a cpu that perfectly fits exactly and only their OS. thats a good thing. and it offers Apple huge possibilities. This totally makes sense since Apple has to develop the CPU only against 1 OS. They do not need to be generic and serve a broad audience of Hardware by generic standards. They can totally customized tailor OS and CPU together. Thats a huge benefit when it comes down to performance, handling, features and battery life. For a company like Apple, that sells „devices“, not hard and software, when having their own hardware and their own one single OS. this makes totally sense for Apple.

So, all in all its very obvious WHY they do it. a lot of ppl discussed this and expected that step, since a while. but what we not really get, is where and how Apple will go. Thoughts:

They kill Bootcamp (at least this is the latest known info). this means you can no longer use windows on mac devices, which cuts away a huge part of customers out there. Yes, you can use Parallels (the preferred Virtualization solution in the Mac world). but when you professionally used this for a while you know this is shit and in no case a replacement or alternative for Bootcamp. this also hits stuff like gaming with a mac hardware. WoW is also available for MacOS, thats fine. But others are not. it simply means for everyone out there, living in a 50/50 world between Apple and Windows, by buying one device and life in both worlds, they are fucked. this is true for a lot of App Developers that have a MacBook to develop for the Apple World and otherwise do their Windows stuff.

Second, Apple pisses AGAIN on all their developers. After 20 years as SW developer i can safely say, together with many others devs i know in my age, that there is no another company out there, that pisses that much on their developer crowd. they give a fuck how you can handle stuff. they change frameworks, layout engines, compiler stuff and and and, always without the slightest interest if and how devs handle it. its way too long to go in details here, but every dev reading this (and not developed solely for Apple) know what i mean. I just say Cocoa, Auto Layout, Safari Web Engine, PWAs, WkWebKit... to just name a few. maybe some dev is reading this and smiles.

Next thing will ofc be the fact that in new MacOS versions on Apple Silicon you can only install SW from App Store (because they get 30% of your profit). Since they already forced ppl to use notarization for their SW, they sure as hell will force SW installations on MacOS into App Store. At latest in 2022. You can remember my words here.

Third, What we also not get is this: What EXACTLY is Apples audience for their Desktop line ? Absurd high prized desktop PCs and Notebooks with notsogreat Hardware only running MacOS ? Who are the ppl that will make their audience ? Their audience is already rather small. Its a few ppl with way too much money, a few graphics designers still think you need Apple (you dont) and IOs Developers. The graphics ppl became less and less these days, since its ... 2020. The IOs Devs became less and less, since Apple loose more and more market on the Smartphone segment. So who EXACTLY shall be the target audience for Apple desktop products in 2022 ?

All in all we completely understand WHY Apple is doing Apple Silicon. But we have no clue where Apple wanna go and how the world should look like for Apple in 2022. Ofc their safe bet are iPads. Tablet market is the only market where Apple completely dominates. There are no alternatives. But whre they wanna go with their MacOs and their Desktop market is beyond many tech ppl out there.

@ldev:

At the end, a few words to OP here: Its obvious that you are a huge Apple Fan Boy. Nothing wrong with this. It was obvious when you did that „joke“ (so you called it) about Apple bashing. There is no problem in this. Was a huge Apple Fan for many years by myself (this changed over time). But when i look at your answers, its somewhat sad, that you just answer every statement here with the try to convince ppl how good it is instead. and how wrong all others be. this let it look like you dont wanna discuss. instead you just not wanna let somebody hurt your great Apple picture and convince ppl of the stuff you like. This looks not like a discussion and could be done better.

[Exkrementor]

Are they going to actively cool them or will they go the same route they have? An exhaust fan that in no way directs airflow over a “heatsink”.

Exactly this. They should just use tablet and smartphone processors if they dont cool them anyway. The performance should be fairly simmilar since the intel cpus are basically always in thermal throttle mode.

[ldev]

Second, Apple pisses AGAIN on all their developers. After 20 years as SW developer i can safely say, together with many others devs i know in my age, that there is no another company out there, that pisses that much on their developer crowd. they give a fuck how you can handle stuff. they change frameworks, layout engines, compiler stuff and and and, always without the slightest interest if and how devs handle it. its way too long to go in details here, but every dev reading this (and not developed solely for Apple) know what i mean. I just say Cocoa, Auto Layout, Safari Web Engine, PWAs, WkWebKit... to just name a few. maybe some dev is reading this and smiles.

@ldev:

At the end, a few words to OP here: Its obvious that you are a huge Apple Fan Boy. Nothing wrong with this. It was obvious when you did that „joke“ (so you called it) about Apple bashing. There is no problem in this. Was a huge Apple Fan for many years by myself (this changed over time). But when i look at your answers, its somewhat sad, that you just answer every statement here with the try to convince ppl how good it is instead. and how wrong all others be. this let it look like you dont wanna discuss. instead you just not wanna let somebody hurt your great Apple picture and convince ppl of the stuff you like. This looks not like a discussion and could be done better.

I mean your example about changing frameworks shows how obviously anti apple you are. Like, if you're still working with same framework, then it means you're a Cobol dev. Microsoft, the kings of not letting go, are killing their frameworks - how's WWF? Dead. How's WinForms? Dead. How's VBA? Dead. Like, fucking hello? In 20+ years you never deprecated anything? Never introduced backwards incompatible change? Never versioned anything? What are you a software dev for? Fucking automatic door controllers? Well, boi, it's very different in big software projects.

"you just not wanna let somebody hurt your great Apple picture"
Because you go and, literally quoting you, spread FUD like "ofc be the fact that in new MacOS versions on Apple Silicon you can only install SW from App Store" - it's "ofc" and very obvious for you. Yet nowhere it's mentioned. What is mentioned, is exactly the opposite - https://eclecticlight.co/2020/06/25/...ty-protection/ - turn off SIP for all they care.

Like, hello?

So, show me current OS that did not do what apple did - changed compilers, changed frameworks, etc. And then show me any source where it says only software from App Store will run. These two requests are "honestly sad" and make me "a huge Apple Fan Boy"?

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Final Cut Pro 7... (a lot of Korean shows use FCP7). It's outdated and not the industry standard. It's not "a new way to cut" infact it's quite the opposite, making the workflow overaly harder. Sure you can use any tool, hell I can whip out Windows Movie maker and make decent short piece that will probably be better than someone who speed ramps with Premiere Pro (YouTuber wannabes). Also Parasite did not win an Oscar for the NLE.

For commercial work and like I said in my original comment, Final Cut is just not acceptable. If you are a one man band it won't matter as long as the final work is good. but why limit your self. Resolve shits on Final Cut and so does Premiere (Adobe ecosystem is juicy). Sure FC has great rendering engine and exporting a video is lighting fast, but that don't mean much (inb4 time is money).

When cutting something for the sake of the story/film, NLE really doesn't matter but workflow does matter in a collaborative space.

Again while editing on ARM is going to be possible and maybe even useful (especially if you can use iPad on the go to make a rough cut / amendments) I simply cannot see it competing against solid workstations for professionals that are running Xeons, Threadrippers, Ryzen 9s/i7s and so forth. A lot of post-houses won't go ARM. If the performance is strong or better (needs to be better) then sure, but again, it won't.

Your argument was that FC is not for pros. Not that it lacks collaboration tools. Which it does, absolutely.

"Final Cut is just not acceptable. If you are a one man band it won't matter" - so which the fuck is it? Not acceptable or "won't matter"?

"NLE really doesn't matter" - again, so for lone cutter, does NLE matter or not? You said when arguing against FC that it does and it's not for pros.

Learn to construct arguments.

"Resolve shits on Final Cut and so does Premiere (Adobe ecosystem is juicy)"
I know, right? For every Final Cut/Motion tutorial there's literally a thousand of Adobe Premiere/After Effects tutorials. For every FC effect/template there's literally thousands for Premiere/After Effects. Literally almost every video stock footage site throws in Premiere/AE templates into subscription. Skillshare, Lynda, Udemy and every other learning website has a shit ton of content for Adobe ecosystem and almost none for FC/Motion. Popularity and, it turn, getting help anywhere, is wayyyy in Adobe's favour.

And yet, despite all that, according to you, Final Cut is the tool for beginners and hobbyists, but NOT Adobe products. Like, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? xD For real, how the fuck did you came into this conclusion? I would never ever recommend Final Cut/Motion to a hobbyist, exactly because of that. Once you know how software like FC and Motion works and you don't need any help - only then you could chose these tools, mainly because they are fast, crash less and most importantly - costs way less money.

[Niwes]

I mean your example about changing frameworks shows how obviously anti apple you are. Like, if you're still working with same framework, then it means you're a Cobol dev. Microsoft, the kings of not letting go, are killing their frameworks - how's WWF? Dead. How's WinForms? Dead. How's VBA? Dead. Like, fucking hello? In 20+ years you never deprecated anything? Never introduced backwards incompatible change? Never versioned anything? What are you a software dev for? Fucking automatic door controllers? Well, boi, it's very different in big software projects.

"you just not wanna let somebody hurt your great Apple picture"
Because you go and, literally quoting you, spread FUD like "ofc be the fact that in new MacOS versions on Apple Silicon you can only install SW from App Store" - it's "ofc" and very obvious for you. Yet nowhere it's mentioned. What is mentioned, is exactly the opposite - https://eclecticlight.co/2020/06/25/...ty-protection/ - turn off SIP for all they care.

Like, hello?

So, show me current OS that did not do what apple did - changed compilers, changed frameworks, etc. And then show me any source where it says only software from App Store will run. These two requests are "honestly sad" and make me "a huge Apple Fan Boy"?

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Your argument was that FC is not for pros. Not that it lacks collaboration tools. Which it does, absolutely.

"Final Cut is just not acceptable. If you are a one man band it won't matter" - so which the fuck is it? Not acceptable or "won't matter"?

"NLE really doesn't matter" - again, so for lone cutter, does NLE matter or not? You said when arguing against FC that it does and it's not for pros.

Learn to construct arguments.

"Resolve shits on Final Cut and so does Premiere (Adobe ecosystem is juicy)"
I know, right? For every Final Cut/Motion tutorial there's literally a thousand of Adobe Premiere/After Effects tutorials. For every FC effect/template there's literally thousands for Premiere/After Effects. Literally almost every video stock footage site throws in Premiere/AE templates into subscription. Skillshare, Lynda, Udemy and every other learning website has a shit ton of content for Adobe ecosystem and almost none for FC/Motion. Popularity and, it turn, getting help anywhere, is wayyyy in Adobe's favour.

And yet, despite all that, according to you, Final Cut is the tool for beginners and hobbyists, but NOT Adobe products. Like, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? xD For real, how the fuck did you came into this conclusion? I would never ever recommend Final Cut/Motion to a hobbyist, exactly because of that. Once you know how software like FC and Motion works and you don't need any help - only then you could chose these tools, mainly because they are fast, crash less and most importantly - costs way less money.

thats not what i talked about. you just take my apples and do like i said it were oranges. i am just too lazy to discuss Apple from a dev point of view here. if i do this, i do this with my colleagues or with some ppl in the web (on github etc). its not worth to me, to do that here and in text form.

but since its at least simple to answer your question, what a dev i am, i can give a small picture of my time line: pascal/c++/VB, 2002+ .NET/C#, Xamarin CrossPlatform, ObjC/Swift native Apple development for iOS on iPhone and iPad, Java/Kotlin and native Android Development, JS/HTML and Typescript/Angular/React and .net core and node.js for web api and backend logic. Not all in the same amount. My most valued skills are C#/.NET and web development. just to build a picture.

[ldev]

thats not what i talked about. you just take my apples and do like i said it were oranges. i am just too lazy to discuss Apple from a dev point of view here. if i do this, i do this with my colleagues or with some ppl in the web (on github etc). its not worth to me, to do that here and in text form.

but since its at least simple to answer your question, what a dev i am, i can give a small picture of my time line: pascal/c++/VB, 2002+ .NET/C#, Xamarin CrossPlatform, ObjC/Swift native Apple development for iOS on iPhone and iPad, Java/Kotlin and native Android Development, JS/HTML and Typescript/Angular/React and .net core and node.js for web api and backend logic. Not all in the same amount. My most valued skills are C#/.NET and web development. just to build a picture.

So you're .NET dev and somehow are fed up with Apple, but not with your own farts. Did you miss .NET Core migration? Oh it's back to being "just" .NET, without the core, from 5th version. And then the fucking bullshit with .net standards? And tell me, how are your apps using WCF or WWF will work in this new .NET framework? Migrated to Entity Framework Core yet? EF 6 not supported. Fuck me, we had issues with EF Core 2.0 migration to 2.1, IIRC something with .Includes. And RIP WebForms, remember when WebForms was the golden standard to write web apps on .NET? Yea, axed. Woweee, but fuck apple in particular, not whole software world. Or you still think you can run your 2.0 .NET apps? You know CLR was completely changed to accommodate generics and 2.0 is long gone? How's VB6 development for old Outlook plugins going? Last time I've checked 7 years ago - you had to use WinXP virtual machine, and newer Outlook dropped VB6 support completely anyways.

And boiiiii, did you just mention javascript ecosystem and still think apple has a problem? Jabbascript?? The ecosystem which reinvents the wheel every six months? Did you just conveniently missed the basics, like going through gulp, grunt, whatever else, before changing yet again and somewhat sticking to webpack? Was your Angular 1 app a hello world example that actually was migrated to Angular 2 and not rewritten?

Let's not leave out Linux and FreeBSD. How many distros migrated to clang from gcc without issues? Hell, even changing gcc versions caused issues and patching. Python 2 vs 3 is still going on.

You're just an idiot who singles out apple because hating apple is cool, when in reality apple is just in the middle of the pack regarding deprecation and what not, whole frigging software world is changing, but somehow that's an argument to say "fuck apple".

10/10 mate.

Here's how to bash apple with arguments: why is boot up times for macOS so dogshit slow? You have 3 gigabyte/s ssds in your laptops, yet booting up takes almost two minutes?? Now I know sleep works fine for the most part, but sometimes when fiddling with power connector mac fails to wake up and then you have to wait 2 minutes. Unacceptable for 2020 with fast ssds. Fix your boot process apple. Or at least iron out bugs with wake up.

See? Not that hard when you actually have arguments, not just baseless retarded rants.

[Gaidax]

Here's how to bash apple with arguments: why is boot up times for macOS so dogshit slow? You have 3 gigabyte/s ssds in your laptops, yet booting up takes almost two minutes?? Now I know sleep works fine for the most part, but sometimes when fiddling with power connector mac fails to wake up and then you have to wait 2 minutes. Unacceptable for 2020 with fast ssds. Fix your boot process apple. Or at least iron out bugs with wake up.

That I too wondered why, it's clear Apple needs to somehow improve that cold boot thing. I imagine they probably do this for the security reasons, as to not load profile and apps before authentication happened, but IMO they could be smarter about it in 2k20.

Windows does load your profile and even opens apps like Chrome even before authentication, it makes boot appear fast and they do pace services and so on. That said, I pretty recently seen a combo "bug"/oversight where you could actually hear YouTube videos in Chrome that opened up during such boot, but before you actually authenticated. That, IMO, is pretty unacceptable.

[Rennadrel]

Lower cost means lower cost for them, not the end user. They will likely charge just as much, or more. So more accurate to say "increased profit margin".

Of course, they don't have to pay royalties or licensing costs to Intel or AMD.

[Niwes]

So you're .NET dev and somehow are fed up with Apple, but not with your own farts. Did you miss .NET Core migration? Oh it's back to being "just" .NET, without the core, from 5th version. And then the fucking bullshit with .net standards? And tell me, how are your apps using WCF or WWF will work in this new .NET framework? Migrated to Entity Framework Core yet? EF 6 not supported. Fuck me, we had issues with EF Core 2.0 migration to 2.1, IIRC something with .Includes. And RIP WebForms, remember when WebForms was the golden standard to write web apps on .NET? Yea, axed. Woweee, but fuck apple in particular, not whole software world. Or you still think you can run your 2.0 .NET apps? You know CLR was completely changed to accommodate generics and 2.0 is long gone? How's VB6 development for old Outlook plugins going? Last time I've checked 7 years ago - you had to use WinXP virtual machine, and newer Outlook dropped VB6 support completely anyways.

And boiiiii, did you just mention javascript ecosystem and still think apple has a problem? Jabbascript?? The ecosystem which reinvents the wheel every six months? Did you just conveniently missed the basics, like going through gulp, grunt, whatever else, before changing yet again and somewhat sticking to webpack? Was your Angular 1 app a hello world example that actually was migrated to Angular 2 and not rewritten?

Let's not leave out Linux and FreeBSD. How many distros migrated to clang from gcc without issues? Hell, even changing gcc versions caused issues and patching. Python 2 vs 3 is still going on.

You're just an idiot who singles out apple because hating apple is cool, when in reality apple is just in the middle of the pack regarding deprecation and what not, whole frigging software world is changing, but somehow that's an argument to say "fuck apple".

10/10 mate.

Here's how to bash apple with arguments: why is boot up times for macOS so dogshit slow? You have 3 gigabyte/s ssds in your laptops, yet booting up takes almost two minutes?? Now I know sleep works fine for the most part, but sometimes when fiddling with power connector mac fails to wake up and then you have to wait 2 minutes. Unacceptable for 2020 with fast ssds. Fix your boot process apple. Or at least iron out bugs with wake up.

See? Not that hard when you actually have arguments, not just baseless retarded rants.

first: i dont get why you rant that much around here. cheesus christ. something must really hurt you or whatever the fuck.

second: .net core was not an easy way. in the last year i learned to hate it because MS changed every little fuck. AspNet Core migration from 2 to 3 is pure hell. EF Core 2 to 3 same (client evaluation, seeding, migrations, global tools and such jokes). I vomitted all day long. I am for sure not a MS fan boy, even when its my business since years. So, Angular. The hell in persona. Angular 1 to 2 was ... another framework that looks like from another company. lol 3 even not did it into reality at all. JS... hmm there i can not follow you. Node is stable since a while and good to go. And JS just improved (Promises and stuff...). I agree to the web pre compile hell. When you ever did something with SPAs, React and Babel, you will also cry out loud. So yes, i agree all of them have their moments and maybe are not better than Apple.

No, i did not only non Apple development. I did mobile Development with ObjC in iPhone4 era, and Xamarin, and swift for years. Mostly from 2017-2019. Where you are right is when it comes down to swift ui and mac os development. but i see and here enough from my collegaeus from that. and you must not be a genius to realize how shit Auto Layout is. and that Apple always has to do ANY things at least it is not the same what other companies do. sometimes this is a good thing. but often, especially at Apple, this is just shit. It just „omg we need to be the special snowflake“ regardless how hard they fuck up developers. Microsoft is at least just stupid or switch from one extreme (super static, nothing new, ALWAYS backward compatible) to another extreme (change EVERYTHING with every major release). i think i am just too old and too less of a fan boy to fight such stupid flame wars or even have a company that has that warm place in my heart. i piss on all of them, because in the end of the day, they are just greedy assholes that wanna make most money possible. in short: i just dont care.

and thats also the reason why this „discussion“ has reached the natural end for me. i am just too lazy to talk with an Apple fan boy, or Ms fan boy or whatever fan boy about tis and tat. just not worth the time sorry. but anyway, if you like Apples stuff, go for it. Do what you like and dont listen to ppl like me. its fine. bb

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Lower cost means lower cost for them, not the end user. They will likely charge just as much, or more. So more accurate to say "increased profit margin".

exactly this.

beneath other reasons (like full control over the product and increased chances for high battery life in macbooks and so on), this is reason nr1 and priority nr1 for Apple. imo.