[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Monster Hunter]

night elves like trees that's a big tree

Isn't it the only big tree left?

[Soon-TM]

Isn’t this what the blood elves did after they nearly got wiped out by the scourge? They went imperial militaristic in order to insure their survival. Their buildings didn’t change because they didn’t live in cities that could be taken down by a single torch, but their way of life did. It wasn’t until the sunwell was restored that they stop banishing or brain washing anyone who threaten the cohesion of their society.

What does that have to do with their architecture, though? NEs didn't have any architecture whatsoever during the Long Vigil, and the moment they (re)adopted one in Darnassus, it was put to the torch less than 20 years later, a blink of an eye for a NE. Why would they go back to having a centralised city, regardless of their architecture, when it has proven to be a clear disadvantage?

In the case of BEs, they dealt more or less with the Scourge at their doorstep, and (partially) rebuilt Silvermoon in their traditional style, because that's what they were accustomed to, that's how they had always lived. But for a race who during 10k years prided themselves on their knowledge of the forests and their connection to nature, to the point that they didn't even have a single city - it is quite unnatural to feel the need, all of a sudden, to build a Suramar 2.0, least of all in a "grandious", imperial style. Which given the events of BfA, and their ensuing (apparent) estrangement from the bulk of the Alliance, it would be nothing short of ridiculous.

It's as if BEs all of a sudden felt the need to live in mud huts after getting the Scourge off their home turf, instead of rebuilding their city the way it always was - or as close as possible.

[Monster Hunter]

Isn’t this what the blood elves did after they nearly got wiped out by the scourge? They went imperial militaristic in order to insure their survival. Their buildings didn’t change because they didn’t live in cities that could be taken down by a single torch, but their way of life did. It wasn’t until the sunwell was restored that they stop banishing or brain washing anyone who threaten the cohesion of their society.

It's a pritty common, standard reaction historically to a great calamity.

Civilisations often go through cycles of great peace, prosperity that leads to decedance and allowing of the guard, that often precipitates a great natural or military calamity, out of which the civilisation regress to more militaristic, imperial and totalitarian state, untill the resulting conquest brings back prosperity, only for it to repeat.

It's basicy the story of most ancient Mediterranean civilisations anyway

[TheFirstOnes]

I'd like to see a more organic (pun not intended) mix of imperial and druidic. An updated Temple of the Moon, surrounded by breath-taking gardens, for example. Why should it be restricted to one area?

Uhm, because it's burned to the ground?

[Rhlor]

I gave the Temple of the Moon as an example for a reason.

Do the houses where ordinary people live look like cathedrals? one thing is one thing and another thing is another. and I repeat I support to see more of that but that the main culture is also maintained

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Isn't it the only big tree left?

shaladrassil too

[alt-ithist]

What does that have to do with their architecture, though? NEs didn't have any architecture whatsoever during the Long Vigil, and the moment they (re)adopted one in Darnassus, it was put to the torch less than 20 years later, a blink of an eye for a NE. Why would they go back to having a centralised city, regardless of their architecture, when it has proven to be a clear disadvantage?

In the case of BEs, they dealt more or less with the Scourge at their doorstep, and (partially) rebuilt Silvermoon in their traditional style, because that's what they were accustomed to, that's how they had always lived. But for a race who during 10k years prided themselves on their knowledge of the forests and their connection to nature, to the point that they didn't even have a single city - it is quite unnatural to feel the need, all of a sudden, to build a Suramar 2.0, least of all in a "grandious", imperial style. Which given the events of BfA, and their ensuing (apparent) estrangement from the bulk of the Alliance, it would be nothing short of ridiculous.

It's as if BEs all of a sudden felt the need to live in mud huts after getting the Scourge off their home turf, instead of rebuilding their city the way it always was - or as close as possible.

Orgrimmar got nearly burnt to the ground before the cataclysm and the orcs rebuilt into something less flammable. Teldrassil gets burnt to the ground and the night elf should rebuild in the same fashion? Or even worse, spread out into small camps that could easily be slaughtered. Congregating in a city wasn’t a dumb move, congregating in a city of wood miles in the air with no escape while your enemies have mages and shamans that could slaughter you all was the dumb move.

If they are dumb enough to hide in another tree or split their people into small towns so they are easy pickings, then The horde only would’ve been guilty that they didn’t wipe them all out as they are too stupid to continue existing.

The BE part makes no sense as they would be downgrading to something even more vulnerable. The elves couldn’t upgrade their architecture as they were (short of gnomes) the peak of defensive structures in Azeroth at the time. Currently night elves and dark spear are at the bottom, with the dark spears still a step above as they wouldn’t be trapped and cooked in their capital should they be attacked.

[Feanoro]

Do the houses where ordinary people live look like cathedrals? one thing is one thing and another thing is another. and I repeat I support to see more of that but that the main culture is also maintained

You are (possibly deliberately) misconstruing what I said, which is that I want a MIXTURE of imperial and druidic styles. We already had that in Darnassus, I'd like to see it more mixed together. I always preferred Darnassus above any other city, but I'll point out that the tree houses were a little bit copy paste. You seem to want these things held separate, at arms' length, when we have no reason for that any more. I want to see a beautiful building with an inner garden like a Roman villa (in game art assets seem to pull from a mix of Greco-Roman and Japanese influences), or built around a particularly nice tree. I want to see roses and flowering ivy climbing up walls, fountains in the midst of large gardens. What I'm trying to describe is not supplanting the druidic, but it embracing the other aspects, rather than "this is your side, that's my side".

[Rhlor]

You are (possibly deliberately) misconstruing what I said, which is that I want a MIXTURE of imperial and druidic styles. We already had that in Darnassus, I'd like to see it more mixed together. I always preferred Darnassus above any other city, but I'll point out that the tree houses were a little bit copy paste. You seem to want these things held separate, at arms' length, when we have no reason for that any more. I want to see a beautiful building with an inner garden like a Roman villa (in game art assets seem to pull from a mix of Greco-Roman and Japanese influences), or built around a particularly nice tree. I want to see roses and flowering ivy climbing up walls, fountains in the midst of large gardens. What I'm trying to describe is not supplanting the druidic, but it embracing the other aspects, rather than "this is your side, that's my side".

perfect everyone can think what they would like to see the most. For me at the development level, what I propose is more coherent. after all now that tyrande is gone the only leader is malfurion a druid who loves nature and was the one who exiled the highborne, now they returned but i doubt if malfurion allows them to create a whole city, i think malfurion ordered his druids to make a important part of the city and shendrelar create a district with their own buildings.

But I repeat, everyone can have their own vision that they would like, this is my vision.

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It's a pritty common, standard reaction historically to a great calamity.

Civilisations often go through cycles of great peace, prosperity that leads to decedance and allowing of the guard, that often precipitates a great natural or military calamity, out of which the civilisation regress to more militaristic, imperial and totalitarian state, untill the resulting conquest brings back prosperity, only for it to repeat.

It's basicy the story of most ancient Mediterranean civilisations anyway

reminds me of the Roman empire that for many generations lived in total peace and prosperity but then came a very big crisis and only someone who is considered one of the greatest emperors like Marcus Aurelius could save the empire

[Skytotem]

shaladrassil too

Was that ever... y'know... fixed? Isn't it all still nightmare'd up?

[Rhlor]

Was that ever... y'know... fixed? Isn't it all still nightmare'd up?

we kill xavius and clean up the nightmare

[Skytotem]

we kill xavius and clean up the nightmare

But does that automatically undo the damage to the tree and all the other stuff?

[Rhlor]

But does that automatically undo the damage to the tree and all the other stuff?

[Mace]

I suppose you are right, without a direct route it is far enough I suppose.

But having said that, they also lived in valsharah for a long time.

It was Suramar they lived in for a long time, where Tyrande was born and the Shadowsongs also come from. The Stormrage twins were born in Val'sharah when their parents were travelling g to Suramar, and the twins lived in the city, but horde fans really dont want night elves associated in the city most relevant to the playable faction.

A very minor cosmetic change to night elves to produce Nightborns was enough for so many to forget and ignore all the kaldorei symbology and force a much greater connection to the blood elves than the very night elves they were. Was astonishing to witness. Mostly perpetuated by horde elf fans, wanting Suramar, and blizzard eventually obliged and I'll bet messed up their own plans. Well they can fix it.

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Val'sharah is essentially a religious retreat though

It's a druidic community zone. Malfurion mentions this. The priesthood temple there seems to have only recently been moved back into since it looks very ru down in a ruined type state. They probably there when they brought the tears of Elune there. I suspect though that some priests have always been amongst that community

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there is someone in the forum who advocates that the night elves abandon their druidic style and that all their buildings are imperial. for me the two styles must exist we have to see wooden buildings and trees that represent the mainstream of the night elf society and the imperial style for the shendrelar in their own district, this was always my idea and I defended it in all my posts

But Rhlor, I am not advocating night elves abandon any style at all, I am saying that rural styles shouldn't be used in their cities, but their cultural urban styles they used in the pre-sundering times should continue to be used in cities they build, like they started in Darnassus, but now go further now Highborne are back, while the rural styles continue on in forest community villages and stand alone homes.

It is not abandoning anything, but making use of everything, each in it's own appropriate place among it's relevant communities. It's okay for night elves to have both. They are not locked to one style, one class or one culture, they are big race, and ancient, they've got very well defined traditions and themes that have great development and set places befitting their great age and intelligence, therefore this must be presented carefully and well to reflect that...not just lumped in because some casual followers of the race think night elf = forest so city should be trees with no consideration to anything the rich and detailed lore tells us and the way they are developing and being restored in this new current era

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I repeat it once again I always defend and want to see a Shenderlar district in the new capital night elves with houses and buildings in imperial style! I would like to see a great mage tower! what I don't want is to see the cultural development of 10 thousand years be erased! Druidic buildings have to be a very important part of the city as it was in Darnassus.

I disagree a night elf city has to have druidic styles in it, cities dont fit the druid style and cause, and in a night elf city, any would probably live in a park or near one if their spouse was a city worker.

Like Darnassus, at most the druids would have a building to serve as HQ, and I would have that in the cities biggest park or in one overlooking it. It doesnt have to be a tree home and the style of what we have is not designed for a city. This is fine, it has its place in areas where druidic communities live in amongst nature with their families and continue their work in nature, which is why you wont see any druids in cities unless they have to be there. (There is a reason you dont see Aldrassil style buildings I Darnassus, but only in the heart of a forest.) - that's its place in that sort of location for that purpose.

Understand night elf culture, it's very detailed for a video game race and a measure of thought put into it, which is good, that's how blizzard should be detailed and consistent with every race.

[Rhlor]

It was Suramar they lived in for a long time, where Tyrande was born and the Shadowsongs also come from. The Stormrage twins were born in Val'sharah when their parents were travelling g to Suramar, and the twins lived in the city, but horde fans really dont want night elves associated in the city most relevant to the playable faction.

A very minor cosmetic change to night elves to produce Nightborns was enough for so many to forget and ignore all the kaldorei symbology and force a much greater connection to the blood elves than the very night elves they were. Was astonishing to witness. Mostly perpetuated by horde elf fans, wanting Suramar, and blizzard eventually obliged and I'll bet messed up their own plans. Well they can fix it.

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It's a druidic community zone. Malfurion mentions this. The priesthood temple there seems to have only recently been moved back into since it looks very ru down in a ruined type state. They probably there when they brought the tears of Elune there. I suspect though that some priests have always been amongst that community

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But Rhlor, I am not advocating night elves abandon any style at all, I am saying that rural styles shouldn't be used in their cities, but their cultural urban styles they used in the pre-sundering times should continue to be used in cities they build, like they started in Darnassus, but now go further now Highborne are back, while the rural styles continue on in forest community villages and stand alone homes.

It is not abandoning anything, but making use of everything, each in it's own appropriate place among it's relevant communities. It's okay for night elves to have both. They are not locked to one style, one class or one culture, they are big race, and ancient, they've got very well defined traditions and themes that have great development and set places befitting their great age and intelligence, therefore this must be presented carefully and well to reflect that...not just lumped in because some casual followers of the race think night elf = forest so city should be trees with no consideration to anything the rich and detailed lore tells us and the way they are developing and being restored in this new current era

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I disagree a night elf city has to have druidic styles in it, cities dont fit the druid style and cause, and in a night elf city, any would probably live in a park or near one if their spouse was a city worker.

Like Darnassus, at most the druids would have a building to serve as HQ, and I would have that in the cities biggest park or in one overlooking it. It doesnt have to be a tree home and the style of what we have is not designed for a city. This is fine, it has its place in areas where druidic communities live in amongst nature with their families and continue their work in nature, which is why you wont see any druids in cities unless they have to be there. (There is a reason you dont see Aldrassil style buildings I Darnassus, but only in the heart of a forest.) - that's its place in that sort of location for that purpose.

Understand night elf culture, it's very detailed for a video game race and a measure of thought put into it, which is good, that's how blizzard should be detailed and consistent with every race.

regarding the nightborne this is a lie and you know it! most of the horde players myself included when we met the nightborne we thought it would be the "subrace" of the night elves! instead, it was the alliance players obsessed with being able to play the blood elf model in the alliance who were the ones who from the first day we saw the nightborne said that they had to join the horde to exchange the playable models of the elven races of the 2 factions. And that was what happened, the players of the horde never asked the nightborne like ours, it was those of the alliance who asked them to join the horde, I at most after seeing that all the elves united to liberate suramar, I thought in them as a neutral race because I would like the elves to form even in lore an independent faction like the illidari.

blizzard fulfilled the desire of the players of the alliance go to thank your friends in the high elf thread for losing suramar and the nightborne and all the connection that the night elves had with them and that city are now part of the horde and It is obvious that horde players will defend one of their races and a city that belongs to the horde.

With regard to the new capital, I am in favor of using the elements that make up the night elf society in due measure. I want to see that cultural representation, I have my personal idea of ​​how it should be and I think it is the most consistent with the development of the night elves.

[Mace]

The orcs moved away from their mud and bones housing motif because it was impractical in a rapidly evolving and war torn world. The night elves should probably do the same. With a good chunk of the civilian population dead, going a bit more imperial style to showcase their current situation of being made up of mostly military units wouldn’t be radical.

Forsaken created their own style to differentiate from standard human in less then a decade. The night elves should adapt to their new reality or just jump into a pyre and join their dead kins.

Exactly. It is far from radical, and many more indicators that this is how night elves will proceed. There is some bad assumption that because of their strong druidic half, that this somehow means their urban centres would also be trees, as if these people don't know civilization and haven't done it ever. In a complete neglect or refusal to accept the very lore ofppgiven for the race.

Some fans assume this because of the Long Vigil, not understanding the nature of that 10k year long mission which did not require urabm centres for the alliance night elf faction, and as such none were built amongst them, not to mention the magic they usually would use for such things is prohibited as part of the mission to prevent return of the Legion demon army.

However once this ends, it's a return to life that was put on a 10k year hold for many who were not druids.

As such they would re-create their urban centres, but the druids, whose primary mission wasnt effected by the end of the long Vigil, will continue it in said forest locations and wont be turning their forests into cities of trees. Rather, those who need an urban centre would build one after the style of their own people.

There is a rejection in some horde elf fans (mostly) of the pre-sundering civilisation being night elven or relating to them at all as if the night elf evolved into something else name changed in a redefinition. As such they feel that night elves doing anything from that era, whether good or cultural/traditional will not occur or should not occur. They totally neglect that the night elf, kaldorei is fully defined as who they are in that era, not afterwards. This is why that group doesn't evolve or change its name, that era of the Long Vigil is a long mission, not a redfining of the race, even the druidic culture that dominates it for the Darnassian group (remember there are non long vigil night elf groups too) is not a new thing in that time, but is the forest culture from the early pre-sundering era.

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But in the case of NEs? They have been just massacred, their brand new capital burned to a crisp and have barely managed to recover Darkshore, which btw is a blighted !@#$hole that will take quite a while to restore. In these circumstances, it would be odd, even ridiculous, to adopt a more "imperial" style, as if they were celebrating the glories of... what, exactly? Darkshore is really not enough.

You mean we are forgetting magic, Highborne , ancients, etc, and why are you calling a style that was in place before they became an empire as imperialistic? That doesnt quite feel appropriate.

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Isn’t this what the blood elves did after they nearly got wiped out by the scourge? They went imperial militaristic in order to insure their survival. Their buildings didn’t change because they didn’t live in cities that could be taken down by a single torch, but their way of life did. It wasn’t until the sunwell was restored that they stop banishing or brain washing anyone who threaten the cohesion of their society.

It's one rule for night elves, and another for everyone. You make another good point.

[Rhlor]

The orcs moved away from their mud and bones housing motif because it was impractical in a rapidly evolving and war torn world. The night elves should probably do the same. With a good chunk of the civilian population dead, going a bit more imperial style to showcase their current situation of being made up of mostly military units wouldn’t be radical.

Forsaken created their own style to differentiate from standard human in less then a decade. The night elves should adapt to their new reality or just jump into a pyre and join their dead kins.

it was actually gazlowe and his cartel who built orgrimmar at the request of thrall who was human educated and understood the importance of good defenses.

the racial leader of the night elves is a druid I suppose he would ask his duidas to build a capital according to their own concepts of how that city should be, but I repeat I think malfurion would allow the shendrelar to build their own district with imperial style

[Mace]

It's a pritty common, standard reaction historically to a great calamity.

Civilisations often go through cycles of great peace, prosperity that leads to decedance and allowing of the guard, that often precipitates a great natural or military calamity, out of which the civilisation regress to more militaristic, imperial and totalitarian state, untill the resulting conquest brings back prosperity, only for it to repeat.

It's basicy the story of most ancient Mediterranean civilisations anyway

With humans, who arent benevolent, graceful, near immortal, highly intelligent beings who unilaterally take full responsibilities for their actions and self correct the bad attitudes and behaviours that led to such corruption.

However beautiful art, craftsmanship, nature , gardens, buildings or cityscape are not the things purged or unwanted. Neither are useful abilities and powers when the need for them is necessary, useful and beneficial in an age they can once more be utilised

[Combatbutler]

With humans, who arent benevolent, graceful, near immortal, highly intelligent beings who unilaterally take full responsibilities for their actions and self correct the bad attitudes and behaviours that led to such corruption.

News flash neither are night elves, something they proved throughout their entire history, after all they abused druism just as much as arcane back in the day, causing a planet wide calamity.

[Mace]

perfect everyone can think what they would like to see the most. For me at the development level, what I propose is more coherent. after all now that tyrande is gone the only leader is malfurion a druid who loves nature and was the one who exiled the highborne, now they returned but i doubt if malfurion allows them to create a whole city, i think malfurion ordered his druids to make a important part of the city and shendrelar create a district with their own buildings.

But I repeat, everyone can have their own vision that they would like, this is my vision.

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Malfurion, who wants love and harmony in everyone, to co-exist simultaneously, who while a druid 100% accepts others who are different from him, whether priest, mage, or craftsman, or a different race, be it Tauren, dwarf or Furbolg.

Malfurion who fully supported the return of the Highborne and argued for them, who only opposes disharmony, harm to nature and reckless abusive use of magic which aren't good things, but supports anything constructive and good, even if it's not his way.

You realise Malfurion agrees on a ban of the arcane only because they believe that's the only way for the Legion to come back they believe. He not once opposes its use amongst the night elves for the war or for good things before the demons came, he opposed the excesses of abuse and recklessness in society, because addiction isn't a good thing.

Once the Legion returns, Malf is on board with all the mages that help out in Wc3 - what does that tell you?, and later just b4 cataclysm, he advocates to haters stirred up by Maiev for the return of the Highborne caste, even putting his own life on the line? What does that tell you.

He accepts Tyrande's counsel on corruptive fel using demon hunters on a magic that is definitely corrupt unlike the arcane, but accepts the DHs on his wife's counsel, able to see their usefulness and necessity for defeating the Legion.

You mean THAT Malfurion?

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News flash neither are night elves, something they proved throughout their entire history, after all they abused druism just as much as arcane back in the day, causing a planet wide calamity.

A state that was departure from their character and induced by addiction, which once gone, we witness in every night elf group, sees a return to sanity and original baseline character which characterises a group like theirs consistently for 10k years.

We cant assume total human attributes to night elves knowing full well there are differences, even when they show fallibility, like every race, even titans and Naaru are capable of in warcraft. We must always be prepared to think from the races stand point and attributes not normal humanity in the places where they differ.

[Rhlor]

Malfurion, who wants love and harmony in everyone, to co-exist simultaneously, who while a druid 100% accepts others who are different from him, whether priest, mage, or craftsman, or a different race, be it Tauren, dwarf or Furbolg.

Malfurion who fully supported the return of the Highborne and argued for them, who only opposes disharmony, harm to nature and reckless abusive use of magic which aren't good things, but supports anything constructive and good, even if it's not his way.

You realise Malfurion agrees on a ban of the arcane only because they believe that's the only way for the Legion to come back they believe. He not once opposes its use amongst the night elves for the war or for good things before the demons came, he opposed the excesses of abuse and recklessness in society, because addiction isn't a good thing.

Once the Legion returns, Malf is on board with all the mages that help out in Wc3 - what does that tell you?, and later just b4 cataclysm, he advocates to haters stirred up by Maiev for the return of the Highborne caste, even putting his own life on the line? What does that tell you.

He accepts Tyrande's counsel on corruptive fel using demon hunters on a magic that is definitely corrupt unlike the arcane, but accepts the DHs on his wife's counsel, able to see their usefulness and necessity for defeating the Legion.

You mean THAT Malfurion?

the one who is a druid and racial leader of a society whose culture clearly has Druidic-style buildings. But do not worry, think about what you would like the most.

we have different points of view now we just have to wait and see what blizz does