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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    He'd have to come to the Shadowlands first for that. All he managed up till now was a short peek. And i think you're vastly overestimating his involvement.
    Because this world or the universe of Warcraft is a prison.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    technically we have only defeated Argus. we didn't defeat Sargeras, we never even fought him. but yeah I don't think it will be Odyn. I mean when it comes to bosses though they don't necessarily have to escalate each time in power. it could just be that they are the major threat for the expansion and have to be put down
    We (they player/the class leaders) had an instrumental rule in imprisoning Sargeras, using our Artifact weapons. In my book, that counts as a "we've defeated him"
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    He'd have to come to the Shadowlands first for that. All he managed up till now was a short peek. And i think you're vastly overestimating his involvement.
    The first Val'kyr was Helya, a titan-forged sorceress who was the adopted daughter of Keeper Odyn. Odyn, having disagreed with the creation of the Dragon Aspects, offered vrykul warriors who died in glorious combat to become part of his Valarjar. To take the spirits of these departed vrykul from the Shadowlands and into the Halls of Valor, Odyn transformed Helya into a Val'kyr, against her will, which would ultimately cause her to rebel against Odyn with the aid of Loken. Odyn's inspiration for the Val'kyr were the Kyrian, which he saw when he gazed into the Shadowlands.
    I guess, we will see. He is the most involved titanwatcher there is, in regards to the shadow realm. Wouldn't be surprised, if he appears in the middle of the SL expansion at all.

    Ra-Den just appeared in 8.3. near the end of SL, so...?

    Some names need to fill the contents of 9.2. and 9.3 and they better have something to do with the SL.

    Obviously, tho, blizz could pull out another Mechagon patch, non-releated to the expansions overall theme, too. Nobody can, tell but i am pretty sure Odyn will make some sort of appearance, as Helya is confirmed.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    I guess, we will see. He is the most involved titanwatcher there is, in regards to the shadow realm. Wouldn't be surprised, if he appears in the middle of the SL expansion at all.
    Which pretty much just means that none of the watchers have any significant involvement. I'd be rather surprised if any of them show up at all, they've got better things to do right now.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    We (they player/the class leaders) had an instrumental rule in imprisoning Sargeras, using our Artifact weapons. In my book, that counts as a "we've defeated him"
    .......... no, we used our artifact weapons to drain the power out of his sword which was impaled in Azeroth. the Titans gripped Sargeras out and dragged him away, not us

  6. #186
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    As many have already said, the Jailer. I will be pissed off if they turn it into Sylvanas though. They need to stop the shit writing of her being a villain or doing evil things.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    .......... no, we used our artifact weapons to drain the power out of his sword which was impaled in Azeroth. the Titans gripped Sargeras out and dragged him away, not us
    That was afterwards. Before that, we did use our Artifacts to free the Titans and enable them to actually do that. Which most would probably consider "an instrumental role".

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    .......... no, we used our artifact weapons to drain the power out of his sword which was impaled in Azeroth. the Titans gripped Sargeras out and dragged him away, not us
    We used the artifacts to free the Titans.

    No artifacts, no Titans, no imprisonment.
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  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    As many have already said, the Jailer. I will be pissed off if they turn it into Sylvanas though. They need to stop the shit writing of her being a villain or doing evil things.
    That ship sailed long ago.

  10. #190
    All wrong we kill Sylvanas and beat the Jailer and Bolvar takes the jailers place forever becoming "The jailer of the damned".

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Which pretty much just means that none of the watchers have any significant involvement. I'd be rather surprised if any of them show up at all, they've got better things to do right now.
    Not unless Odyn corrupts all Titan Keepers and make them into a council type raid boss. Loken in SL, either slaying his fellow keepers bringing along their souls into the maw and soul binds them. We would definitely see Ra-den in SL by a slightly high margin of chance if we did slay him during Nya'lotha.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2020-06-29 at 08:19 AM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Not unless Odyn corrupts all Titan Keepers and make them into a council type raid boss. Loken in SL, either slaying his fellow keepers bringing along their souls into the maw and soul binds them. We would definitely see Ra-den in SL by a slightly high margin of chance if we did slay him during Nya'lotha.
    Yes, not unless Odyn does something completely out of character for no good reason.

  13. #193
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    That ship sailed long ago.
    which is why I said "They need to stop the shit writing of her being a villain or doing evil things." Blizzard has this theme going on that if they can't write a good plot to unite the Horde & Alliance to fight against some greater evil they just make her do something and makes it into this huge "morally grey" shitshow.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    which is why I said "They need to stop the shit writing of her being a villain or doing evil things." Blizzard has this theme going on that if they can't write a good plot to unite the Horde & Alliance to fight against some greater evil they just make her do something and makes it into this huge "morally grey" shitshow.
    That would require a massive retcon of her entire story. She's never not been a villain in WoW.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That would require a massive retcon of her entire story. She's never not been a villain in WoW.
    I'd argue that she hasn't always been a villain, but she has been pretty consistently "Evil" alignment since 2004. Cata just ramped it to 11 and then BFA just fell off a cliff on fire.

    @gaymer77

    Even if they stopped now, it wouldn't matter. It's way too late. Too many terrible decisions are linked to her character, too many deeds are heinous enough to require a pretty significant punishment to be narrative satisfaction to a big cross-section of the player base. Even for people who like them, any outcome where they suddenly grow a conscience would ring extremely hollow and jarring after all of this.

    Best thing to hope for is for her to get locked up in the Maw rather than outright killed so if they want, they can Illidan her a few years later.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    I'd argue that she hasn't always been a villain, but she has been pretty consistently "Evil" alignment since 2004. Cata just ramped it to 11 and then BFA just fell off a cliff on fire.

    @gaymer77

    Even if they stopped now, it wouldn't matter. It's way too late. Too many terrible decisions are linked to her character, too many deeds are heinous enough to require a pretty significant punishment to be narrative satisfaction to a big cross-section of the player base. Even for people who like them, any outcome where they suddenly grow a conscience would ring extremely hollow and jarring after all of this.

    Best thing to hope for is for her to get locked up in the Maw rather than outright killed so if they want, they can Illidan her a few years later.

    Remember she did suicide once and jumped off Icecrown citadel only to be impaled by saronite sticking out of the ground, didn't seem to work out. Though there is an in-game text stating saronite can rend not only flesh but also soul.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    It’s the Jailer.

    They’ve said he’s the overarching villain of this expansion. They wanted to go back to having one after not doing so since... Cata, I guess?
    Ya just like Grom was supposed to be the end boss for Warlords right? lol. We constantly see bad guys becoming good guys because we don't understand their motives, the Jailer could very easily become an ally by the middle of the expansion.
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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    But, we fought Helya, twice too in legion. And she appears on the Jailers side in SL in the intro quests.

    Pretty sure we have to fight her again and maybe odyn, too. Another test to proove worthy for the giggles.
    Helya is also linked with the Jailer in a similar manner of which Sylvanas is. We're on our own, from this point on. Odyn's way out of our range of communication for now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    An ingame joke of the devs, not lore related, just for giggles.

    Because Odyn still thinks the player is unworthy to go after Helya, nonetheless.

    Or we just kill a corrupted Odyn, Ra-den style, which is just,lame, tbh.

    In any case he seems deeply involved for a titan watcher with SL, he must be an encounter in one way or another, or at least assist us as a NPC.

    Why shouldn't he be used again? Helya is confirmed for SL?

    Don't see him as final boss material, though.
    1. He did find us worthy. What the fuck? Dude, play Legion.

    2. Odyn has literally NO way to come into the Shadowlands. Not in the same way as Helya, at least. The last time he PEERED into the Shadowlands, it costed him his eye. And no, the rift currently above our skies doesn't guarantee free entry. Ya have to use the Helm of Domination shards for that. Something of which only WE have.

    3. "In any case he seems deeply involved for a titan watcher with SL, he must be an encounter in one way or another, or at least assist us as a NPC." After slaying N'Zoth, Argus, a Void corrupted Ra'den, etc. Why would ODYN be a threat?

    4. "Helya is confirmed for SL?" Odyn's story against her is done though. He's a free man, doing his own thing. Helya is OUR problem, and our problem only.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Remember she did suicide once and jumped off Icecrown citadel only to be impaled by saronite sticking out of the ground, didn't seem to work out. Though there is an in-game text stating saronite can rend not only flesh but also soul.
    That has nothing to do with anything I typed?

    I think you're overfocusing on Yogg. He's really charismatic and a lot of the Old Gods were wasted, but their stories are effectively done for now. Back later? Absolutely. But probably as a quirky miniboss squad for a Void-centric expansion. The Jailer is being set up as a completely new character. Same with the overfixation on Argus. If the Shadowlands predates the Titans, Argus can't have a lot of alignment with it as a core setting.
    Last edited by Vakir; 2020-06-30 at 02:51 AM.

  20. #200
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    World of Warcraft, Patch 9.3: The Revenge of Scrollsage Nola.

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