Why is Theramore seen as unjustified?

[Ardenaso]

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

it IS relevant, OP is asking why people didn't like bombing and here it is. Destroying Theramore is 100% justified, using mana bomb or the torture of its civilians isnt'

[matrix123mko]

Because usually they aren't big enough to deserve such spotlight.

Tell that to Stonespire Tribe if you find any living members.

[Combatbutler]

Tell that to Stonespire Tribe if you find any living members.

Pretty much the same as southshore and that was a footnote too.

[Talrath]

Wasn't theramore evacuated and full of soldiers and mages?

[Eto Demerzel]

Is there any convention in Azeroth that explicitly forbids WMDs? Or is this more RL projecting BS on a game with hereditary monarchs, knights in shining armour and dragons?

Id say the main issue here is that the Alliance, with its righteouss morality, would never use their full strength to decimate a Horde city/race because it would be commiting a genocide, while the Horde keeps escalating more and more... thus alliance players relate to their faction morality and Horde players dont give a damn about the means to winning a war.

Think about this, Jaina had the power to destroy Orgrimmar after Theramore, yet she was convinced by her dragon boyfriend and green jesus to not do it, sure they argued her, but it was her morality the thing that stopped her from causing the biggest genocide in Azeroth's history.
Again the same happens with Garrosh invasion to Ashenvale... Night Elves have a massive standing army, almost all their population can be used as soldiers for war, their druids can (and would) convince neutral demigods to fight for them because they have a righteous role as defenders of Hyjal as long as their cause is right... yet they did not started a crusade/jihad against Orgrimmar which could have happened very easily.
Also the sames happens in Eastern Kingdoms... the Argent Dawn and the Silver Hand combined into the Argent Crusade to stop Arthas from being the Lich King, what was the Lich King? A figure who decimated entire cities and raised them unwillingly as his army... after Arthas died, Argent Crusade went back to Hearthglen and sit idle watching as Sylvannas was literally decimating entire cities and rasing them unwillingly as her army. Tyrion should have started a crusade against the Forsaken yet he sit idle because morality (Forsaken are a race and their acts are """""""justified""""""" - note the several quotes - because they must assure their survival).

Could go on an on about how the Alliance could retaliate and escalate this wars even further but its easy to see... just look at BfA... most alliance work is done by the SI:7, which is an intelligence service literally comprised by rogues and major battles are fought by normal armies... no major powers, no major strengths, just subtle actions, yet in horde you have Talanji summoning loas to kill alliance, Nathanos trying to weaponize everything he can get to throw it to the alliance, Sylvannas causing mass murders with the blight... The closest thing the alliance has used that could be potentially an "escalate" is Tyrande with the night warrior and thats just a poor writters attempt to create a villain artificially in the alliance to appease the Horde players (like always).

TL;DR: Alliance morality in game is mirrored by players outside the game when looking objectively to conflicts.

[Super Dickmann]

Technically evacuated.

As in, evacuated so that the civilians could be captured on the water and brought to Orgrimmar.

In other words, not actually evacuated, but led into a trap for later torture.

(Source: Theramore Prisoners in Siege of Orgrimmar)

I still find it absolutely hilarious that the Horde apparently kept some undetermined amount of Theramore survivors in dungeons, feeding and clothing them for over a full year solely so that Garrosh could eventually show them off to his enemies in a siege he never had any expectation to take place. It's probably the most hamhanded bit of villain batting they did with the character short of that part where they made him fine with warlocks and undead for the sake of a single bit of Alliance quest content, only to then immediately revert to his Cataclysm anti-warlock characterization right after.

Also, I think the implication is that since they were evacuated to Tanaris at the end of the book and the Horde Pandaria experience reports a victory off the shore of Tanaris in its beginning cutscene, that's when some amount were taken.

[Raisei]

True but the Draenei are the definition of selfish cowards plain and simple, they knew they were hunted, yet they didn't adapt and tried the same shit over and over again, their society could by all means no longer be peaceful, yet they still had mostly civilians, instead of going full martial to prepare to fight their wayward people and protect others from them, because they knew they were coming.

Running from an immortal army of demons led by a literal EVIL GOD while you have at most a few hundred people is now cowardly. Uh huh. There is simply no way in hell that they could ever have prepared enough to face this army, their only hope was hiding and that they did. Their settlement was actually magically hidden in a way that would have made it impossible for the Orcs to find it, but one Draenei made the mistake of saving some Orc kids and bringing them there instead of letting them be killed. In true Horde gratitude the Orcs used the secret knowledge they got from that to massacre the Draenei.

The Draenei did nothing of the sort, not even after their ship had broken down and escape became impossible for 200 years they did nothing of note, they did not unite draenor under them, forcing the primitive races into submission ,if necessary thus creating a fortress world. No all they did was build a society that is the definition of useless considering what they were up against and at the slightest obstacle collapsed like the house of cards that it has been.

Again what would a few hundred draenei do against a an IMMORTAL ARMY LED BY AN EVIL GOD. No matter of militarisation could ever have saved them in a direct conflict. A fortress world? Sargeras CLEAVES PLANETS IN HALVE. Enslave the Orcs as canon fodder? Apart from Velen never condoning such an action it would have just made it easier for Kil'jaeden to convince Ner'zhul to slaughter them in an effort to "free his innocent Orcs from the opression of the Draenei".
I mean he managed to convince them when the Draenei had done nothing but be helpful neighbours and saving some of their kids. The only difference would be that we would today read Horde posters justifying Teldrassil with "but the Draenei enslaved the Orcs".

Indeed. Only Raisei tries to hide his allegiance.

Speaking of hiding, did you not dare put in a mention so I might overlook this cute accusation? Should I put in a shouting Velf with a Stormwind tabard as my avatar so you can more easily place me in a drawer?

I have not ever hidden being pro-Alliance. Not sure where you think you read that. I am just not 100% anti-Horde though, which might be difficult for some people to understand.
I am just against the genocidal civilian slaughtering for fun Horde and especially those that try to justify that behaviour and cry like pouty children if that aspect is taken away.

[Lolites]

Wasn't theramore evacuated and full of soldiers and mages?

yes it was, but they were alliance soldiers so they shouldt be attacked, they should be ignored even though they keep attacking horde teritory...

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Id say the main issue here is that the Alliance, with its righteouss morality, would never use their full strength to decimate a Horde city/race because it would be commiting a genocide

didnt they siege like 3 horde capitols in this expansion alone? not saying they didnt have reason, but they sure dont have problem with doing it...

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thus alliance players relate to their faction morality and Horde players dont give a damn about the means to winning a war.

they accepted void elfs, who sent enemies into the void... they use molten giants and huge fire elementals and fire in general instead of blight... seems like they dont have problem using any means necessary, or is it somehow better to burn someone alive instead of blighting him? bcs moraly i dont really see a difference...
only difference is horde is more "successfull" when it comes to over the top methods, not that they are the only one using them...

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Think about this, Jaina had the power to destroy Orgrimmar after Theramore, yet she was convinced by her dragon boyfriend and green jesus to not do it, sure they argued her, but it was her morality the thing that stopped her from causing the biggest genocide in Azeroth's history.

so Thrall and Kalec are now known as "Jainas morality", good one...
THEY STOPPED HER, by talking to her sure, still without them she wouldnt even hesitate... thats not morality thats not wanting to piss of two "people" who can stop you by force... if i aim at you a gun and someone stand between us its not my morality stoping me, its that goddamn person ffs... dont give jaina points for BEING STOPPED... if it works that way, then burning Teldrasil is not sylvanas fault but saurfang as he didnt talk to her to stop her...

[Combatbutler]

Running from an immortal army of demons led by a literal EVIL GOD while you have at most a few hundred people is now cowardly. Uh huh. There is simply no way in hell that they could ever have prepared enough to face this army, their only hope was hiding and that they did.

Yes it is, since they had an alternative, you know the army of the light, all the lightforged you meet there departed from Velens group shortly after escaping argus, they survived to this very day but they opted not to take the route of a coward. The Draenei never managed to stay hidden, not once. The legion found them each and every last time, did they change their tactics as a consequence, nope because they are a bunch of idiots.

Their settlement was actually magically hidden in a way that would have made it impossible for the Orcs to find it, but one Draenei made the mistake of saving some Orc kids and bringing them there instead of letting them be killed. In true Horde gratitude the Orcs used the secret knowledge they got from that to massacre the Draenei.

Which was only possible, because the stupid goats didn't prepare Dreanor for the inevitable invasion of the legion, they literally had no longer any means of escape, but chose to sit on their hands ignoring absolutely everything around them. Yrel is proof that it would have been quite easy to get Draenor in order in just a few decades, they had centuries and they did nothing of note in that time.

Again what would a few hundred draenei do against a an IMMORTAL ARMY LED BY AN EVIL GOD. No matter of militarisation could ever have saved them in a direct conflict. A fortress world? Sargeras CLEAVES PLANETS IN HALVE.

Sargeras is not everywhere, reaching distant worlds can take up several thousand years. The Draenei have an obligation to fight and resist, because their family members are torching the cosmos, they should have fortified each world they arrived on, building up natives to fight what is coming, to at least delay the legion so that the burning crusade would be slowed down, thus saving billions of lives, instead of doing nothing, standing by watching everything burn. In essence have the legion fight for every inch of the universe.

Enslave the Orcs as canon fodder?

Not enslave educate and indoctrinate, in essence assimilate into the army of the light as equals, showing off their Naaru would have greatly helped.

Apart from Velen never condoning such an action

Who cares what that degenerate thinks? He was willing to sacrifice what little remained of his people in the exodar to spare his son, who had earned himself the nickname butcher among the eredar, let that sink in.

it would have just made it easier for Kil'jaeden to convince Ner'zhul to slaughter them in an effort to "free his innocent Orcs from the opression of the Draenei".

They had centuries, meaning several generations to properly integrate the orcs, making this scenario nigh impossible

I mean he managed to convince them when the Draenei had done nothing but be helpful neighbours and saving some of their kids. The only difference would be that we would today read Horde posters justifying Teldrassil with "but the Draenei enslaved the Orcs".

They weren't helpful neighbors, they were just there. Almost no interaction took place between the races and who gives a damn if people would use it as a justification in an argument? It would have been pretty much the only logical course of action, instead the Draenei are grade a morons, they had all the knowledge and naaru backing them and they did jack shit with it all.

[Eto Demerzel]

didnt they siege like 3 horde capitols in this expansion alone? not saying they didnt have reason, but they sure dont have problem with doing it...

They have weapons way stronger than a mere siege engines... as I said just taking the draenei ships (Exodar and Xenedar) which were strong enough to withstand Legion's cannons means there is nothing in either Undercity, Orgrimmar or Dazar'Alor that could stop them. I mean, technically speaking, a part of Aman'Thul soul which was used by Lei Shen "to be stronger than the Lich King in 1v1" is inside Antonidas Staff (which is in Jaina's bank getting dust)... it was stated she could decimate the whole Orgrimmar alone...

And yes, while the Alliance has sieged Dazar'Alor (Undercity was a response for Teldrassil and Orgrimmar was a combined effort between Horde and Alliance so i wouldnt count it as an Alliance military target), they did not use any Wild God or anything overpowered (the most op being there was Jaina surfing in ice) while Talanji unleashed several Loas against the alliance. Have you imagine how could Dazar'Alor have changed if instead of fighting two tidesages you had to fight a combination of Malorne and Avianna? How could have the battle been if Jaina literally drowned the entire city under a Tidal Wave of elementals like she planned on Orgrimmar? There is nothing the Horde could have done to prevent a mass genocide if the alliance had wanted it... but no, Anduin's literal plan was to gather a big army, run to the throne room and beg Rastakan to surrender.

they accepted void elfs, who sent enemies into the void... they use molten giants and huge fire elementals and fire in general instead of blight... seems like they dont have problem using any means necessary, or is it somehow better to burn someone alive instead of blighting him? bcs moraly i dont really see a difference...
only difference is horde is more "successfull" when it comes to over the top methods, not that they are the only one using them...

so Thrall and Kalec are now known as "Jainas morality", good one...
THEY STOPPED HER, by talking to her sure, still without them she wouldnt even hesitate... thats not morality thats not wanting to piss of two "people" who can stop you by force... if i aim at you a gun and someone stand between us its not my morality stoping me, its that goddamn person ffs... dont give jaina points for BEING STOPPED... if it works that way, then burning Teldrasil is not sylvanas fault but saurfang as he didnt talk to her to stop her...

Void Elves are just elves who following the path of Alleria are trying to tap into the void to use it strength. It is not different than a paladin tapping into the light, a warlock tapping into the fel, a druid tapping into the nature or a shamman tapping into the elements. Its a source of strength, which, like all of the others, can corrupt you (light corrupted Yrel, fel corrupted Sargeras, druids are isolated people who only care about druidism and elementals can be awkward to follow like Ragnaros).
Using a source of power does not turn you into evil or good. World is full of greys even if Blizzard doesnt know how to write them.

And about the morality... the decision was not up to Thrall or Kalecgos, it was up to Jaina, both of them knew they could NOT stop her and she knew they could not stop her (are you even implying that Jaina armed with the focusing iris, who had the power to destroy the whole Orgrimmar could be stopped by an orc with a hammer that does not respond him anymore and a mere blue dragon?)... so why did she stop? Because both did actually exploited the goodness in her. She did not want to commit a genocide, she did not want to become a mass murder, she just wanted to prevent any other genocide and she knew the Horde would cause it... and guess what, she was right. They removed a warmonger to place a muppet (poor Vol'Jin) to then put another warmonger.

[Varodoc]

Wow like reading this shit with my own eyes and I still cant believe its not parody.. If you actually wrote the above with a straight face, it is a waste of time to even have a discussion with you.. you might want to see a doctor as well to cure that irony impairment. I feel bad for people going back and forth with you here.

There's no "going back and forth" with me, just people refusing to accept the canon story.

[Lolites]

they did not use any Wild God or anything overpowered (the most op being there was Jaina surfing in ice) while Talanji .

im pretty sure wild gods do not attack, they only defend their "territory"
drenei ships not being used is not issue of morality but rather huuuuuuuuuge plothole (why wouldt they use them to evacuate Teldrasil or just as threat? thats not immoral...)
and please go do alliance war campaign, the part in zandalar and tell me how slaughtering hundreds of goblins with fire elemental is all right...
and the Loas fighting on side of horde to protect THEIR HOMELAND (it is their homeland after all) surely could and would stop the flooding or any other genocidal method... or Jaina got another power boost and is on level with fucking demigods now?!
they still used molten giants in city, in north part which is pretty much shops and inns soo incinerating civilians... but i guess its fine as they are not alliance (though they WERE NOT horde at the time yet) and its "only" couple dozens of them...

i mean i never denied horde did bad shit, but alliance appologist should really stop trying to justify anything alliance do (even if its on par with things they blame horde for as atrocities) and admit the shit they did...

tbh, i think justifying every shit alliance do is hurting the story more than anything...

[Raisei]

yes it was, but they were alliance soldiers so they shouldt be attacked, they should be ignored even though they keep attacking horde teritory..

1) Jaina's teenage apprentice is not a soldier. She was barely able to use her magic to make a mage table. But of course her murder is justified, right? Because we really shouldn't condemn the Horde for such trivial things as murdering kids.
2) This "he let the civilians go" is proven complete and utter bullshit, the evidence has been posted several times in this thread already. He captured them later and had them tortured and murdered for fun. They are still there, in game, if you would open your eyes.

didnt they siege like 3 horde capitols in this expansion alone? not saying they didnt have reason, but they sure dont have problem with doing it...[

There were 3 Sieges yes, neither of which resulted in any significant number of Hordes being killed. Lordaeron was destroyed by your beloved Warchief herself and at Orgrimmar there was not even an open attack. Dazar'alor was barely touched with only some defenders and one enemy leader killed after being given the chance to surrender.
In contrast we have the entirety of Darkshore blighted, Teldrassil burned to the ground (with thousands of civilians inside), Brennadan blighted and it's civilian population murdered and daily tries of blighting Boralus on top.
But sure keep defending the slaughter of civilians as the right thing to do, it's one thing I know you Horde posters will always do.

they accepted void elfs, who sent enemies into the void... they use molten giants and huge fire elementals and fire in general instead of blight... seems like they dont have problem using any means necessary, or is it somehow better to burn someone alive instead of blighting him? bcs moraly i dont really see a difference...
only difference is horde is more "successfull" when it comes to over the top methods, not that they are the only one using them...

The difference is not the success rate. The difference is that the Horde deliberately targets civilians with the blight because they are cowards while the Alliance targets enemy combatants.

[Lolites]

But sure keep defending the slaughter of civilians as the right thing to do, it's one thing I know you Horde posters will always do.

funny enough i never did that, i always say horde did and does some pretty serious shit... what i say is alliance does too and should admit it instead of twisting and justifying it like you just did... but i guess some people dont have brain capacity to admit they could be wrong in their narrow minded point of view, so ill just put you into ignore and be happy i dont have to read your twisted reality bullshit anymore

[Eto Demerzel]

im pretty sure wild gods do not attack, they only defend their "territory"

Im quite sure several Wild Gods are as heavily tied to the Night Elves as several Loas are heavily tied to the Trolls.

drenei ships not being used is not issue of morality but rather huuuuuuuuuge plothole (why wouldt they use them to evacuate Teldrasil or just as threat? thats not immoral...)

Draenei ships not being used is explained because they care only about the Legion, they do not meddle with mundane affairs. Nonetheless, both ships are part of the alliance and the commander of one of them (Turalyon) is one of the top commanders of the alliance, if he can involve the lightforge draenei in battle in stromgarde, he can obviously involve the Xenedar. Blizzard wont do it because it would make the alliance have an obviously unfair advantage and they never know how to compensate this on the alliance without making them look evil... thus... their morality is the explanation of why the alliance does not do evil things inside the game.

and please go do alliance war campaign, the part in zandalar and tell me how slaughtering hundreds of goblins with fire elemental is all right...
and the Loas fighting on side of horde to protect THEIR HOMELAND (it is their homeland after all) surely could and would stop the flooding or any other genocidal method... or Jaina got another power boost and is on level with fucking demigods now?!

First of all, the timeline situation you are mentioning is the fourth great war in Azeroth, its a war started by Sylvannas where she decimated an entire capital and several cities on the path to that capital city. So everything done after that is alredy justified as a retaliation, even despite that. Alliance invasion to Dazar'Alor wasnt planned to cause a genocide or destroy the city, if not, alliance could have ACTUALLY destroyed the whole city. The army was outside, the Loa's were outside, the Horde was completely outsmarted by the alliance in Dazar'Alor, yet the alliance did not destroy the whole city (which would have rather put an end to the Zandalari as the top troll race and would have splitted the race forever).
About Jaina... back in MoP, when Lei Shen was resurrected, she tasked the alliance with empowering the Staff of Antonidas with the strength of Lei Shen after killing him, and canonically it actually happened... guess what, Lei Shen power was a piece of Aman'Thul soul so just do the math...

they still used molten giants in city, in north part which is pretty much shops and inns soo incinerating civilians... but i guess its fine as they are not alliance (though they WERE NOT horde at the time yet) and its "only" couple dozens of them...

Are you even trying? Zul just literally burn the whole Stormwind City to escape the prison, orphanages, inns, houses, everything, he did not target military objectives, he actually target civilian buildings so the military would have to go rescue them... and guess what, Jaina actually did it!
And please dont start about Zul being evil, he was part of the Zandalari and he was being rescued by the Horde. He was responsible of atrocities like the resurrection of Lei Shen and the reignition of amani and gurubashi tribes hostilities to the whole world.

i mean i never denied horde did bad shit, but alliance appologist should really stop trying to justify anything alliance do (even if its on par with things they blame horde for as atrocities) and admit the shit they did...

tbh, i think justifying every shit alliance do is hurting the story more than anything...

The thing is, alliance has always responded, never started a conflict on their own. People keep claiming Camp Taurajo as an example of alliance killing civilians despite Baine stating otherwise, Horde literally created an extermination camp on Hillsbrad, used plague against living and unliving, every single being raised by Sylvannas was asked to do her bidding or be killed again, Goblins (which you seem to consider innocent and weak creatures) are responsible for empowering both Garrosh and Sylvannas armies to their peak and even following both of them AFTER being deposed (remember Blackfuse? remember Gallywix?).

Honestly, i dont even know why are you trying to lecture me on conflicts about the alliance were every single battle they have fought is a literal response to a horde escalation, and as i mentioned, alliance could literally have smashed the horde to pieces several times and keep pardoning them as nothing. We (as people) know that it is bad writting, but the explanation in the game is everything about morality and if you dont get it, please just try to follow lil'Anduin life from Cataclysm forward. It may be poors writting, it may be annoying, but it is nonetheless the story we are playing.

[Lolites]

1. Im quite sure several Wild Gods are as heavily tied to the Night Elves as several Loas are heavily tied to the Trolls.

2. Are you even trying? Zul just literally burn the whole Stormwind City to escape the prison,

1. which have to do what with attacking zuldazar or orgrimar? they would defend hyjal as cenarius did, they would not atack
2. Zul? you mean the foreign emmisary alliance imprisoned for no reason whatsoever? yeah, thats not a good thing either... anyway, you moved from "alliance does nothing wrong" to "alliance CAN do wrong thing, bcs horde started" pretty fast... soo which is it? or is it the one that fits your current narrative?

i say it again as it seem to be ignored I NEVER CLAIMED HORDE DID NOTHING BAD, but so did alliance and they should admit it...
moving between "alliance did nothing wrong" and "alliance did wrong, but they didnt start so its ok" is not helping here... or commiting war crimes agains enemy is fine as long as he commits them first?
if vengeance is what alliance is after im not opposing that, but then dont try to dress it as justice... purge of dalaran is great example of that - justice would be finding out who worked with garrosh and punish him, purging dalaran of sunreavers AND non-sunreavers bloodelf shopkeepers instead was vengeance... seldom you can have both, usualy you have to pick which you want

[Shinrael]

Quote the passage?

I am very interested to know first - where did you get the information that Theramore was sending troops to Northwatch, if the book is our only source on those events?

[Eto Demerzel]

1. which have to do what with attacking zuldazar or orgrimar? they would defend hyjal as cenarius did, they would not atack
2. Zul? you mean the foreign emmisary alliance imprisoned for no reason whatsoever? yeah, thats not a good thing either... anyway, you moved from "alliance does nothing wrong" to "alliance CAN do wrong thing, bcs horde started" pretty fast... soo which is it? or is it the one that fits your current narrative?

i say it again as it seem to be ignored I NEVER CLAIMED HORDE DID NOTHING BAD, but so did alliance and they should admit it...
moving between "alliance did nothing wrong" and "alliance did wrong, but they didnt start so its ok" is not helping here... or commiting war crimes agains enemy is fine as long as he commits them first?
if vengeance is what alliance is after im not opposing that, but then dont try to dress it as justice... purge of dalaran is great example of that - justice would be finding out who worked with garrosh and punish him, purging dalaran of sunreavers AND non-sunreavers bloodelf shopkeepers instead was vengeance... seldom you can have both, usualy you have to pick which you want

Teldrassil had been decimated by the Horde, several ancients have been seen fighting for the night elves in Darkshore Warfront and Cenarius states in that screenshot that he fights for the Night Elves and for the land of Kalimdor. Desecrating Kalimdor and destroying one of their most holy places would count as an afront big enough to mobilice their armies in retaliation.

Starting BfA, Zul was a war criminal responsible for re-igniting the Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman tribes conflict with both the Alliance and the Horde, Vol'Jin even turned his back against them because Zul was rallying the whole troll race against the rest of the world. Also he sent Zandalari priests and troops to resurrect Lei Shen, another genocidal tyrant leader who actually threatened the whole world. Both Talanji and Zul were captured because they were responsible for war crimes against both the Alliance and the Horde and even despite that, the Horde actually released them, so again... Horde going nuts.

Im not going to say that alliance did anything wrong, because as i said, they keep retaliating, atacking someone who keep atacking you is not a wrong movement. Sure lil'Anduin might be advocate of doing nothing, but most of the alliance would actually be happy to decimate a couple horde cities from now and then and use our strength at all when we are suffering most of the plights of this wars.

Before the Horde stepped into Azeroth...:

Eastern Kingdoms had: 1 Elven Country, 2 Dwarf Countries, 1 Gnome country, 7 Human Kingdoms, 1 Goblin Cartel all living in peace, only hostile factions in the whole continent were Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman and Dark Iron Empire (which eventually would have joined the world peace coalition by the marriage of Moira and Dagran).

Kalimdor had: Several Tauren tribes, 1 Night Elf country, 1 Blue Draconic Nest, several non-civilized tribes (Furbolgns, Wildkins, Quillboar, Dryads, etc), 3 troll tribes (Farraki, Shatterspear and Shadowtooth) and several demigods all living in peace, only hostile factions in the whole continent were Onyxia's Dragons, C'thun Forces, Centaur nomadic tribes and a bunch of random dinosaurs.

There was almost peace in the whole world before the Horde arrived, they turned factions against each other (Alterac? Amani?), spread through the world causing harm to everything in sight (Ogres everywhere? Raced cities everywhere? A Demigod slain trying to prevent the Legion from consuming Azeroth?). The Horde is the cause of wars and genocides, Saurfang was right because it didnt matter if it was lead by Blackhand, Doomhammer or Thrall... the Horde isnt bent on producing or improving, its form of surviving is taking resources from others.

And about the purge of Dalaran, Jaina was right and it was on her hand to make justice of what had been done. The Kirin Tor had been declared neutral and the Sunreavers actively participated in theft of the Divine Bell and using Dalaran resources to aid the Horde.

Just read this:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Fate_of_Dalaran

Read Jaina's answers, this is literally after the horde destroyed her home, this is literally after Rhonin, the previous Kirin Tor leader was obliterated by the Horde. She choosed to remain NEUTRAL and refused Varyan's petition to evict the Sunreavers, it wasnt untill she literally witnessed how the Sunreavers sneaked into Dalaran to steal the Divine Bell in order to give it to Garrosh. She DEMANDED Aethas that his people leave Dalaran since they were disloyal and he refused.
She was the legitimate leader of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor and she demanded the Sunreavers to surrender the arms and leave the city since they were working against it... and they refused. What other option was there? Can you explain to me?

[Raisei]

Yes it is, since they had an alternative, you know the army of the light, all the lightforged you meet there departed from Velens group shortly after escaping argus, they survived to this very day but they opted not to take the route of a coward. The Draenei never managed to stay hidden, not once. The legion found them each and every last time, did they change their tactics as a consequence, nope because they are a bunch of idiots.

Not every civilian is able to just become a warrior and the Legion is simply not an army you can beat with conventional means. You want to make the Draenei look bad, but every normal person in their situation would have done the same. Not everyone wants to just run into a meat grinder for the Light. If anything their running away is the most reasonable response.

Which was only possible, because the stupid goats didn't prepare Dreanor for the inevitable invasion of the legion, they literally had no longer any means of escape, but chose to sit on their hands ignoring absolutely everything around them. Yrel is proof that it would have been quite easy to get Draenor in order in just a few decades, they had centuries and they did nothing of note in that time.

Sargeras is not everywhere, reaching distant worlds can take up several thousand years. The Draenei have an obligation to fight and resist, because their family members are torching the cosmos, they should have fortified each world they arrived on, building up natives to fight what is coming, to at least delay the legion so that the burning crusade would be slowed down, thus saving billions of lives, instead of doing nothing, standing by watching everything burn. In essence have the legion fight for every inch of the universe.

Yrel ruled over a Draenor that had already pretty much been freed of demons by us, she only mopped up the straglers. Again your fantasy that the Draenei could have beaten back or even held off a full assault of the Legion is ludicrous. Just look at those Legion Star Destroyers, If the Legion had gone all out Draenor would have been vaporized in days and nothing would have been won by that.

Not enslave educate and indoctrinate, in essence assimilate into the army of the light as equals, showing off their Naaru would have greatly helped.

You said "forcing them into submission" that is quite different from what you say here. I don't see how that would have changed that the Orcs could easily be turned against them. They had a peaceful cooperation, almost friendly and still the Orcs jumped at the chance to massacre them, civilians, children and all, because that is just what Orcs do. They did after all not even need Kil'jaeden to go for the genocide on AU Draenor.

Who cares what that degenerate thinks? He was willing to sacrifice what little remained of his people in the exodar to spare his son, who had earned himself the nickname butcher among the eredar, let that sink in.

He realized it was his son literally a second before and the situation just overwhelmed him. So you are not only blaming the victims for the deeds of their attackers, but also a father for trying to save the life of a son and maybe not thinking clearly for a few seconds? Geezus... you got the empathic range of a sludge elemental.

They had centuries, meaning several generations to properly integrate the orcs, making this scenario nigh impossible

The Orcs literally turned on each other for being in different clans and you want to tell me that they would not have turned on the alien Draenei? Please.

They weren't helpful neighbors, they were just there. Almost no interaction took place between the races and who gives a damn if people would use it as a justification in an argument? It would have been pretty much the only logical course of action, instead the Draenei are grade a morons, they had all the knowledge and naaru backing them and they did jack shit with it all.

There was trade between the race and again the Draenei saved some of their kids. They are probably morons for even going that far, true. They should have know that Orcs are intrinsically untrustworthy and not engaged with them at all.

[Soon-TM]

funny enough i never did that, i always say horde did and does some pretty serious shit... what i say is alliance does too and should admit it instead of twisting and justifying it like you just did... but i guess some people dont have brain capacity to admit they could be wrong in their narrow minded point of view, so ill just put you into ignore and be happy i dont have to read your twisted reality bullshit anymore

You shouldn't really be upset with Ally fans trying to hide their !@#$ under the rug whenever they are called out for it. After all, they are just following in the writers' steps. Someone in these boards (think it was @Super Dickmann? Not sure though) said that the ultimate difference between Horde and the Alliance is that, while both do resort to some pretty !@#$ed up stuff from time to time, only the former has to answer for it.