Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Mace]

@Mace

I'll respond to you here, and mostly cap it off here with my own wall of text. The credit I will give you is that you definitely put a lot of effort into these biblically long posts. As someone who also tends to ramble, you simply write far, far too much and say way too little in your posts, of which massive amounts are taken up by what amounts to speculation and cherrypicking, inflating mild points and minor events beyond all recognition while ignoring vast amounts of screentime. Your premise is misguided at best in its take, your evidence is flimsy even past that, but even if they were rock solid, your ultimate pitch and the pitch of the thankfully only handful of people who share your position would be ruinous to implement, pushing the dominant aspect of one race to the background so that it can take over the main points of two other races which are already redundant, thus eliminating three races for the price of one, all for the sake of pushing the most trite, stereotypical and conflictless version of the standard fantasy elf conceived. Except purple.

Okay firstly, thanks for taking the time. I'm a long post person, despite my ramblings, I enjoy the detail and I enjoy the discussion, I like to read and I like to write. I'd prefer it if I could just as easily present my thoughts visually, but that's a whole nother level of effort. So I'm totally fine with long responses on topics that interest me.

Saying that, you really have got me wrong in one respect. I am not wanting to, trying to push the dominant aspect of the night elf race to the background at all - but I understand how my efforts make it seem like I am. But it is not my desire to do this, nor am I trying to.

1. My main arguments are that, what you call dominant aspect isn't actually so for the race itself, it isn't as dominant in the race as screen time would lead you to believe. I base my measure on all the lore and info of the night elves, whether in books/comics etc, interviews, in -game statements, official website publicatins etc. e.g. If one statement says night elven magi are powerful talented arcanists of old and all night elves filled with arcane power, and in game shows 0 use of this - whether in night elves or in their mages - I still factor this in. What shows up in screen time is not everything that is part of the lore, their are huge swathes not dealt with, only hinted at too for many things and often skipped - for various reasons like resources, or promoting the horde to get more players to play etc - it doesn't make the lore said even in one statement irrelevant or mean it's been retconned until they actually say so. And one statement can be used to describe entire eras or features of people or areas not necessarily given representation in game. Until we saw Zandalar and Kul'tiras some would consider them insignificant, never counting htem in their human/troll discussions or projections. Lack of screen time didn't mean they weren't around nor that they weren't what they were said to be to the full extent a few statements described.

In this sort of project/franchise, it doesn't only become real once you see it in the main media format - because there is much that doesn't show, sometimes only focusing on events. Think of the star wars movie vs the universe - vast majority of the universe and peoples is text in books or information stated, the movie parts are relevant, but so are the other things mentioned outside it.

2. I actually will be fine with night elves been shown in game as powerful mages in their npc factions and having 1 amazing city or 2. For me, this is neither cherry picking or pushing the dominant aspect (as you perceive it) of the race to the background. The lore gives me powerful night elven magi - whether Highborne Shen'dralar or Moonguard - but they never get screen time, or the have only done so briefly. But they are there, stating or insisting they are there isn't cherry picking, and wanting them to be visible and have screen time isn't wanting them to dominate.

Like most people, I suspect the frequency and volume of my posts makes it appear that I am, but I really am not. Wanting to see more visibility of an aspect that is there and whose accounts I have believed for the race is pretty much the end of my desire, not once do I suggest any minimisation or removal of what's been shown.

There are things I like a lot, I want to see more of them, I'm willing to yap a lot about them.

That's pretty much it in terms of my desire. Thinking I'm cherry picking and ignoring the dominant shown aspect, while questionable that it is actually dominant overall, is not what I'm doing. Focusing on an aspect that has substance and clear relevance is what I'm doing. They seem small because not much is done of them, but in situations like a game that shows a lore, One "small" sentence is as relevant as all the screen time in particular event or chapter.

What I do is that I've paid attention to those seemingly brief statements and taken them to heart, fully factoring them in, because this si what the lore says. e.g. For 16 years of Warcraft the lore has mentioned the wondrous night elf civilization and the arcane mastery of this race as astounding, but screen time never showed it. Never showed Azshara wielding anything or Illidan, who it states is the greatest sorcerer in the world actually doing any of that stuff.. yet it did say these things, and I took them as real and advocated and defended them. It took till Legion for them to actually show this.. show powerful night elven based casters in the Nightborne and Moonguard and Farondis, to show a wondrous night elven city and arcane based night elf civilization. What was mentioned and had zero to nothing screen time was still lore. Eventually they showed it. If they hadn't, guess what, I'd still be reminding people that this is the case lore wise, even though they haven't shown it ...yet. It is there. You must facor it in.

Now mentioning this, and factoring it and even desiring to see it, doesn't mean I want all the night elven druidic stuff to disappear too, or end or cease, actually the opposite, I'm just focusing on an aspect I like and want to see more screentime visualisation.

With that out of the way, I will come back later and now actually discuss my thoughts on the rest of your response. TBC

- - - Updated - - -

--snip--

I'm not denying what they've already given you guys, but I don't like it, it annoys me, and I want the stuff for the night elves to also be shown on the night elves.

I don't like that such a cool part of them is only exclusive on the horde, I think it's cheating many a night elf fan by doing this, in a game that they expect players to pick a side and have loyalties.

Therefore if you're gonna show a part of the night elf race on the horde in an amazing way via an allied race, I feel it's cheating the actual night elf fans like me who've wanted this part of their race on their faction and I feel they need to make room on the night elves to show this part.

Unlike what Super Dickmann thinks, it's got nothing to do with dominating the druidic or priestly facets of the night elves, which I like too, showing powerful Highborne wielders from time to time and an amazing night elf city that reflects the wonder attributed to the race, is not eliminating or getting rid of the other aspects to it. TI's just showing and showing it well.

I'm of the opinion this should be visible on the core night elf race in the best light first also, and not only in the sub-race on the other faction. And if blizzard can't see how this is really grievous and disappointing/annoying to the fans that show loyalty to the themes they present in the segregation they promote, then they're failing their fanbase.. and night elves is not the only aspect we witness this in.


Sure, it's visible on the horde, and I accept it's there, but I don't like that on the alliance it's only spoken of and undeveloped, I'd like to see this part in the main race itself, seeing that's where it's from and also a part of. This is what you're not getting.

AM I a fool for wanting something like this and wasting time moaning or asking for it, instead of just enjoying this until it happens? I probably am, you make a decent point, in all fairness. However when a human likes something they tend to talk about it, and when they want something they tend to mention it. When a verbose human does it, it shows up in many words, rather than few.

[Tanaria]

Who are you trying to prove though?

I mean, every race, barring the Tauren has sort of Arcane-lore.
If you want to play a Night Elf Mage, you go right ahead - but your not going to convince me to swap my elegant Blood Elf Mage to a nelf mage. It's not going to happen.

Not all of us, who like night elves, care about having Mages. I don't. I prefer my night elf druid, night elf rogue and night elf warrior because I'm free to like what I want. I find Druids and Sentinels to be some of the most iconic areas in night elf society and I get those niches filled in the night elf classes that I play.
I also get my Blood Elf iconic areas, which for me are the Magisters and Spellcasters of Quel'Thalas and the Blood Knights. It's obvious I have a blood elf mage, blood elf warlock, blood elf priest and blood elf paladin.

I do also have a void elf hunter, because I like Farstriders, like you do, but I prefer them as "High Elves" so naturally, my Void Elf will have a High Elf appearance in Shadowlands.

I also have a night elf death knight, just for controversy considering the whole "Balance of life" and what a nelf unholy dk represents which is the total opposite to what the druids represent.

I then play a blood elf demon hunter because I like the idea of the Illidari and blood elves represent the faction of Illidan-loyalists, that I envision.

[Pheraz]

But the night elves are getting golden eyes like azshara. Which clearly says blizzard wants us to play high borne. @Tanaria

Also, look at my mage. I think it's the most Spellcaster character I've ever seen no thin teen elf can compete

[Tanaria]

But the night elves are getting golden eyes like azshara. Which clearly says blizzard wants us to play high borne. @Tanaria

Also, look at my mage. I think it's the most Spellcaster character I've ever seen no thin teen elf can compete

Which Night Elf Males have had for years.

Malfurion has golden eyes and he's a Druid.
Golden eyes are only symbols of greatness - they aren't a "Oooohhh Mage..."

And your Mage is a forest-elf Mage. No Sanctums. No vast libraries that the Moon Guard want to visit. No Ban'dinoriel.

[Pheraz]

Nah my mage is a highborne mage. White hair, golden eyes (soon). I am sorry, high elves are not the only fantasy of elven mages around. We are even getting dark blonde hair, like the father of all high elves, a high borne NIGHT elf

[Tanaria]

Nah my mage is a highborne mage. White hair, golden eyes (soon). I am sorry, high elves are not the only fantasy of elven mages around. We are even getting dark blonde hair, like the father of all high elves, a high borne NIGHT elf

Yeah - Highborne - those that siphoned off a demon for 10,000 years.
Those that let their own city fall to ruin.
Got exiled by the Horde.

Whereas:
Highborne of Quel'Thalas.
Established Runestones - created a shield that prevented the eyes of the Legion from noticing their potent use of magic. Not even Alexstrasza's corrupted brood or the Orcish Warlocks could enter Northern Quel'Thalas.
They fought off the troll ten-to-one in the initial stages, but called for aid when the Amani started using their own magics against them.
Created the Sunwell
Established a well rounded society that basked in the glory of the arcane and the light. The power of the Sanctums and the magic they held were second to none.

[Hellspawn]

Which Night Elf Males have had for years.

Malfurion has golden eyes and he's a Druid.
Golden eyes are only symbols of greatness - they aren't a "Oooohhh Mage..."

And your Mage is a forest-elf Mage. No Sanctums. No vast libraries that the Moon Guard want to visit. No Ban'dinoriel.

I very much enjoy the Shen'dralar mage fantasy with night elfs. I roleplay my mage as one of them. With the new customizations I will also change hairstyle and eye color that looks more highborne like (Maybe even the skin color). I like too imagine that night elf mages don't break in half like blood elfs when they magic shilds fails. They also fullfill the fantasy of mages that got all that secret knowledge and research that only them and maybe Azshara know about.

Yes they don't have their own library anymore so if my mage currently want to visit a library she goes to Stormwind or Dalaran.
With Shadowlands you can also choose blue eyes if you want to, if you want to role play a normal night elf or a Shen'dralar is up to the player... just like you can play a Ironforge Dwarf or a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I don't get your gatekeeping attitude here.

Personally I like to see some development with the night elf race, otherwise things are getting stale. While I wouldn't want the night elfs to be ruled by aristrocratic mages, some more integration would be nice. Like they could have knowledge about the Well of Eternity that could help in the future. Or they build up the Moonguard again with regular night elf mages and maybe even Gilnean mages. It would be probably no overarching mega plot, but just add some flavour. That there is room for more development, even if its just a minor one is interesting to me.

Yeah - Highborne - those that siphoned off a demon for 10,000 years.
Those that let their own city fall to ruin.
Got exiled by the Horde.

Whereas:
Highborne of Quel'Thalas.
Established Runestones - created a shield that prevented the eyes of the Legion from noticing their potent use of magic. Not even Alexstrasza's corrupted brood or the Orcish Warlocks could enter Northern Quel'Thalas.
They fought off the troll ten-to-one in the initial stages, but called for aid when the Amani started using their own magics against them.
Created the Sunwell
Established a well rounded society that basked in the glory of the arcane and the light. The power of the Sanctums and the magic they held were second to none.

Thats not exactly true, the Horde did not exile them, apart from the loyalist who probably got killed, the other Highborne were not allowed to leave. So when the Horde killed their prince they could flee.

Also some of them started to train night elfs in arcane magic directly infront of Eldre'thalas.

What I'm missing in your list is the moment where the blood elfs were betrayed by their own and got their city sacked, lost 90% of their people and were later betrayed by their own prince who summoned Kil'Jaeden in the Sunwell.

[Tanaria]

I don't mind Night Elves having a new edge, but treat it as that other side branch.

It's like trying to make out the Nightborne Hunters are something because of Nighthuntress Syrenne, when that whole side to them is just a small branch now.

And what's the point in creating a new style for the current night elves, such as we see in Val'Sharah - this isn't "Highborne" this is for the common night elves and we see these new styles in WSG, Auberdine and Lor'danel - what's the point in totally ignoring this in favor of a style that the Blood Elves and Nightborne use. Isn't that copying and pasting from another race?

And I left the part regarding Drathir out, because in all the thousands of years Ban'dinoriel stood, it only fell due to him - insiders knowledge is what brought the shield down. Could Arthas have solved it himself? Possibly, we don't know - but the point is, both those who sacked Quel'Thalas are now dead and the Sunwell is restored.
Wonderous, eternal Quel'Thalas shines anew.

[Hellspawn]

And I left the part regarding Drathir out, because in all the thousands of years Ban'dinoriel stood, it only fell due to him - insiders knowledge is what brought the shield down. Could Arthas have solved it himself? Possibly, we don't know - but the point is, both those who sacked Quel'Thalas are now dead and the Sunwell is restored.
Wonderous, eternal Quel'Thalas shines anew.

Eldre'thalas also stood for thousands of years, they did not have the luxurity to own one vial of the water of the well of eternity to create an infinite pool of magic. And unlike the blood elfs there were able too feed of a demon without getting any fel side effect even 10000 Years ago.
In the end their downfall came down to their prince being a mad man.

Also as a small recent additional...
When Wrathion searched for secret knowledge he did not search it the libraries of Silvermoon... but he went to the ruins of Eldre'thalas to find clues and the second place he went to was Karazhan.

I don't mind Night Elves having a new edge, but treat it as that other side branch.

It's like trying to make out the Nightborne Hunters are something because of Nighthuntress Syrenne, when that whole side to them is just a small branch now.

And what's the point in creating a new style for the current night elves, such as we see in Val'Sharah - this isn't "Highborne" this is for the common night elves and we see these new styles in WSG, Auberdine and Lor'danel - what's the point in totally ignoring this in favor of a style that the Blood Elves and Nightborne use. Isn't that copying and pasting from another race?

Its called progress, you know, its kind of boring if everything stays the same forever. What we see in Auberdine and Lor'danel is just a update of the vanilla builds which is fine for a village. But if they ever do build something like Darnassus again I expect also that style modernized and for the Shen'dralar maybe something like the Mage Tower on the broken isles which is not the same style as either Blood Elfs or the modern style of Nightborne.

[Pheraz]

I don't mind Night Elves having a new edge, but treat it as that other side branch.

It's like trying to make out the Nightborne Hunters are something because of Nighthuntress Syrenne, when that whole side to them is just a small branch now.

And what's the point in creating a new style for the current night elves, such as we see in Val'Sharah - this isn't "Highborne" this is for the common night elves and we see these new styles in WSG, Auberdine and Lor'danel - what's the point in totally ignoring this in favor of a style that the Blood Elves and Nightborne use. Isn't that copying and pasting from another race?

And I left the part regarding Drathir out, because in all the thousands of years Ban'dinoriel stood, it only fell due to him - insiders knowledge is what brought the shield down. Could Arthas have solved it himself? Possibly, we don't know - but the point is, both those who sacked Quel'Thalas are now dead and the Sunwell is restored.
Wonderous, eternal Quel'Thalas shines anew.

What will you say when the new capital in hyal will feature a whole highborne block with mages and stuff?

[Mace]

I very much enjoy the Shen'dralar mage fantasy with night elfs. I roleplay my mage as one of them. With the new customizations I will also change hairstyle and eye color that looks more highborne like (Maybe even the skin color). I like too imagine that night elf mages don't break in half like blood elfs when they magic shilds fails. They also fullfill the fantasy of mages that got all that secret knowledge and research that only them and maybe Azshara know about.

Yes they don't have their own library anymore so if my mage currently want to visit a library she goes to Stormwind or Dalaran.
With Shadowlands you can also choose blue eyes if you want to, if you want to role play a normal night elf or a Shen'dralar is up to the player... just like you can play a Ironforge Dwarf or a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I don't get your gatekeeping attitude here.

Personally I like to see some development with the night elf race, otherwise things are getting stale. While I wouldn't want the night elfs to be ruled by aristrocratic mages, some more integration would be nice. Like they could have knowledge about the Well of Eternity that could help in the future. Or they build up the Moonguard again with regular night elf mages and maybe even Gilnean mages. It would be probably no overarching mega plot, but just add some flavour. That there is room for more development, even if its just a minor one is interesting to me.

I like you Hellspawn, you're like me in this regard - that's how I view my current Highborne toon, I just add on forums that I'd like to see them in-game more, and would like them to have some of their stuff back - maybe a city rebuilt, or 2, for the future. sadly some mistake this to think I mean I don't like or want the savage kaldorei portions or the forest elements.

I won't apologise for saying out loud what I'd like more off, but I will correct people if they read more into the things I say (like thinking I don't want the kaldorei druidic and forest aspects. It's okay to like one aspect of a race more than the other, and to desire to see more of the things you like, or see them improve or at the very least match how they come off in the lore. It's natural. To Super Dickmann and a few others I say this.

- - - Updated - - -

What will you say when the new capital in hyal will feature a whole highborne block with mages and stuff?

You know. And if the whole city is night elf pre-sundering grade style.

When I think about it - the temple buildings, class HQs, Academies and municipal buildings, the highborne living quarters - would all be marble grade fused with nature.. I still don't see any particular reason why other buildings like shops shouldn't also follow suit. Now if the druids have a building, it would likely be in a tree. And while they could be loads of those, I don't expect there to be b/c forests would surround the capital and it would likely have a lot of nature via parks and gardens, literally overflowing.

What would she say then?

And if it ends up being wood, I would be disappointed, and wonder if blizzard has forgotten what their lore is, unless they provide a good reason for why it isn't, but I'll accept it. It's presence doesn't somehow unmake or remove Suramar or Zin'Azshari from being night elven, nor does its existence mean that no night elf group of any kind will never build night elven pre-sundering type cities. Especially with Highborne groups around, and non-druidic night elves.

So I will still hope - if I still care about Warcraft in those days.

[Vaedan]

I very much enjoy the Shen'dralar mage fantasy with night elfs. I roleplay my mage as one of them. With the new customizations I will also change hairstyle and eye color that looks more highborne like (Maybe even the skin color). I like too imagine that night elf mages don't break in half like blood elfs when they magic shilds fails. They also fullfill the fantasy of mages that got all that secret knowledge and research that only them and maybe Azshara know about.

Yes they don't have their own library anymore so if my mage currently want to visit a library she goes to Stormwind or Dalaran.
With Shadowlands you can also choose blue eyes if you want to, if you want to role play a normal night elf or a Shen'dralar is up to the player... just like you can play a Ironforge Dwarf or a Wildhammer Dwarf.

I don't get your gatekeeping attitude here.

Personally I like to see some development with the night elf race, otherwise things are getting stale. While I wouldn't want the night elfs to be ruled by aristrocratic mages, some more integration would be nice. Like they could have knowledge about the Well of Eternity that could help in the future. Or they build up the Moonguard again with regular night elf mages and maybe even Gilnean mages. It would be probably no overarching mega plot, but just add some flavour. That there is room for more development, even if its just a minor one is interesting to me.



Thats not exactly true, the Horde did not exile them, apart from the loyalist who probably got killed, the other Highborne were not allowed to leave. So when the Horde killed their prince they could flee.

Also some of them started to train night elfs in arcane magic directly infront of Eldre'thalas.

What I'm missing in your list is the moment where the blood elfs were betrayed by their own and got their city sacked, lost 90% of their people and were later betrayed by their own prince who summoned Kil'Jaeden in the Sunwell.

Also don't forget the part when orcish warlocks altered those runestones, allowing them to freely cast inside of Quel'thalas, and enabling invasion of the region, resulting in Horde burning the forest and killing everything in their path.

[Alanar]

Nah my mage is a highborne mage. White hair, golden eyes (soon). I am sorry, high elves are not the only fantasy of elven mages around. We are even getting dark blonde hair, like the father of all high elves, a high borne NIGHT elf

Erm it's more like orange-light brown tbh and it's seems they are trying to reflect that to the season Autumn, you can also see this come back in the leaves as extra option. So it's more like yes you could try to rp as one.. but in the end it's not realy itt. To me it doesn't scream highborne at all.. but, what is highborne to you? because I think you could try it with the white hair clor and golden eyes and that would pass as one, but it would require some more hair style options.

Tanaria is right by saying the Night elves you play are the forest elves, when you roll a mage you are a night elf mage or darnassian mage or kaldorei mage. So for the record you are not playing a highborne, altho it's very hard to tell, because in the end highborne was jus a name to some group of nobles who thought they were differnt enough, but they weren't any differnt, not visually at least. In the end blizz stated they want players to be free to rp as what they want. Blue elyes for void elves is kinda the same deal, Like you can try to play as a high elf.. but it's still not realy the real thing.
More options the better.

[Tanaria]

This is a problem you know.
There's talk about specific class-based features for the races, based on the lore - now I know what you might be thinking; "Well Tanaria, that sounds great!"

But let's go into this.

More common talking points are Farstriders (Blood Elf Hunters) and Highborne (Night Elf Mages), but again - nobody can tell me what the exact features are. Tattoos for Farstriders aren't a common thing and only 1 Alliance Farstrider (Alleria) has them. In Blood Elf society, only Rommath, a Mage, has them - so with that, doesn't that mean tattoos are more of a "Magister" thing?
So nobody can agree on what these would look like because we all have different ideas and if we can't get over that first hurdle, how the hell do we expect Blizzard to implement something like that.

The new features in Shadowlands are done right. They are features that are simple symbolic of the race - as a race.
We don't have time to being into each race/class combo and giving 4 or 5 distinct features, for each gender as well. I mean, how do you even create specific features for an Orc Warlock? You've got green skin already...what else can Blizzard possibly do?

[Beloren]

This is a problem you know.
There's talk about specific class-based features for the races, based on the lore - now I know what you might be thinking; "Well Tanaria, that sounds great!"

But let's go into this.

More common talking points are Farstriders (Blood Elf Hunters) and Highborne (Night Elf Mages), but again - nobody can tell me what the exact features are. Tattoos for Farstriders aren't a common thing and only 1 Alliance Farstrider (Alleria) has them. In Blood Elf society, only Rommath, a Mage, has them - so with that, doesn't that mean tattoos are more of a "Magister" thing?
So nobody can agree on what these would look like because we all have different ideas and if we can't get over that first hurdle, how the hell do we expect Blizzard to implement something like that.

The new features in Shadowlands are done right. They are features that are simple symbolic of the race - as a race.
We don't have time to being into each race/class combo and giving 4 or 5 distinct features, for each gender as well. I mean, how do you even create specific features for an Orc Warlock? You've got green skin already...what else can Blizzard possibly do?

Good point Tanaria. They should give the tattoos and if you want them on your lock or on your priest, rogue or hunter go for it., you can design your own Farstrider look.

And night elves dont need any more options for Highborne, we already got 3 highborne factions they can roll a void elf for a purple highborne now if they want, in fact I'm considering making a new Queen Azshara and cant choose between a void elf female or nightborne, ahy suggestions?

Night elves arent made to model highborne, not even sure why blizz keeps em around, but I wasnt sure why they kept high elves around when the majority of the race moves to something else..

I think latest customisation make blizzards answer quite clear, there is nothing neat or polished about any of the new night elf options, it's all wild and feral

Now I'd have loved some of those messier options for my Belf hunter, but I'll just have to continue to look pristine, I'm high class after all, and you can look fabulous even while hunting Amani in the forests. That's what it ,means to be fabulous!

- - - Updated - - -

Erm it's more like orange-light brown tbh and it's seems they are trying to reflect that to the season Autumn, you can also see this come back in the leaves as extra option. So it's more like yes you could try to rp as one.. but in the end it's not realy itt. To me it doesn't scream highborne at all.. but, what is highborne to you? because I think you could try it with the white hair clor and golden eyes and that would pass as one, but it would require some more hair style options.

Tanaria is right by saying the Night elves you play are the forest elves, when you roll a mage you are a night elf mage or darnassian mage or kaldorei mage. So for the record you are not playing a highborne, altho it's very hard to tell, because in the end highborne was jus a name to some group of nobles who thought they were differnt enough, but they weren't any differnt, not visually at least. In the end blizz stated they want players to be free to rp as what they want. Blue elyes for void elves is kinda the same deal, Like you can try to play as a high elf.. but it's still not realy the real thing.
More options the better.

Exactly, if you want a different enough looking and still be purple, void elf or nightborne are all highborne based groups and they have the look, just roll one.

Not sure what the fixation of playing a bully night elf as a noble high class elf - alliance have void elves for that, horde have actual night elf nobles in the nightborne. Just play those

[Tanaria]

Farstrider features aren't really all that "messy" though. I mean, look at Sylvanas when she was Ranger General. All of her rangers and soldiers still an element of "grace" about them and this has continued.

I suppose a few scruffy features would be cool to have, but they shouldn't be the norm.
In some ways, I take issue with this because it sounds like people are trying to make Blood Elves into Night Elves and Night Elves into Blood Elves and that shouldn't be the case.

I remember listening to Blizzard in TBC talk about Blood Elves and them always referencing, "They are a magical people." "These people are addicted to magic." "The Blood Elves love using magic - it's what built their civilization." Surely this should stay and the Blood Elves can still get this, despite the Nightborne. Hell, both Blood Elves and Nightborne served as the Mages and Arcanists for the Honourbound, during the faction assaults on Kul'Tiras and we see Sin'dorei Blood-Magi working hard in Nazmir, during the Nazmir assault.

And I know this thread is about Night Elves (and a bit of Nightborne), but talk of magic will always involve the Blood Elves at some point, just like it would involve the Naga, Nightborne and Void Elves.

[Beloren]

Farstrider features aren't really all that "messy" though. I mean, look at Sylvanas when she was Ranger General. All of her rangers and soldiers still an element of "grace" about them and this has continued.

I suppose a few scruffy features would be cool to have, but they shouldn't be the norm.
In some ways, I take issue with this because it sounds like people are trying to make Blood Elves into Night Elves and Night Elves into Blood Elves and that shouldn't be the case.

I remember listening to Blizzard in TBC talk about Blood Elves and them always referencing, "They are a magical people." "These people are addicted to magic." "The Blood Elves love using magic - it's what built their civilization." Surely this should stay and the Blood Elves can still get this, despite the Nightborne. Hell, both Blood Elves and Nightborne served as the Mages and Arcanists for the Honourbound, during the faction assaults on Kul'Tiras and we see Sin'dorei Blood-Magi working hard in Nazmir, during the Nazmir assault.

And I know this thread is about Night Elves (and a bit of Nightborne), but talk of magic will always involve the Blood Elves at some point, just like it would involve the Naga, Nightborne and Void Elves.

Agreed, and moreso than the night elves who fit perfectly as forest elves, face it blizzard has made no effort to show them as anything else - because they want them to be about that.

And you are right about blood elves being neat and magical, dunno why they even bothered with the hunter vibe, it should have died with the high elves or being a niche select thing only.

I would however love my Belf having that night elf trimmed beard, though, that's about as unkempt a blood elf should go, but it's just darn so cool

[Mace]

Good point Tanaria. They should give the tattoos and if you want them on your lock or on your priest, rogue or hunter go for it., you can design your own Farstrider look.

And night elves dont need any more options for Highborne, we already got 3 highborne factions they can roll a void elf for a purple highborne now if they want, in fact I'm considering making a new Queen Azshara and cant choose between a void elf female or nightborne, ahy suggestions?

Night elves arent made to model highborne, not even sure why blizz keeps em around, but I wasnt sure why they kept high elves around when the majority of the race moves to something else..

I think latest customisation make blizzards answer quite clear, there is nothing neat or polished about any of the new night elf options, it's all wild and feral

Now I'd have loved some of those messier options for my Belf hunter, but I'll just have to continue to look pristine, I'm high class after all, and you can look fabulous even while hunting Amani in the forests. That's what it ,means to be fabulous!

I see, so the existence of void elves and Nightborne was to replace night elf highborne and pre-sundering history - so the fantasy can transfer to these new races..

right.

So the existence of every other allied race is meant to replace their core races' lore. Oh wait, this only applies to night elves, because some horde Belf fans just can't stand the idea of Night elves having the pre-sundering history and those attributes.

You know night elves are big enough to have both foest elves and dark elves - and that's what they were created to have. Some actually like the pre-sundering night elf and fancy their character as night elven Highborne (mages, priests, warriors, hunters) or Moon Guard mages.

[Beloren]

I see, so the existence of void elves and Nightborne was to replace night elf highborne and pre-sundering history - so the fantasy can transfer to these new races..

right.

So the existence of every other allied race is meant to replace their core races' lore. Oh wait, this only applies to night elves, because some horde Belf fans just can't stand the idea of Night elves having the pre-sundering history and those attributes.

You know night elves are big enough to have both foest elves and dark elves - and that's what they were created to have. Some actually like the pre-sundering night elf and fancy their character as night elven Highborne (mages, priests, warriors, hunters) or Moon Guard mages.

I just don't see the point of wanting more stuff for a Highborne customisation when the look and vibe is captured extremely well in a void elf or nightborne. It makes night elf magical stuff pointless and much better for development to focus on things not available to void elves and nightborne.

[Mace]

I just don't see the point of wanting more stuff for a Highborne customisation when the look and vibe is captured extremely well in a void elf or nightborne. It makes night elf magical stuff pointless and much better for development to focus on things not available to void elves and nightborne.

1. Here's the thing, I know some hordies find it hard to believe that some night elf fans actually wanna play as a Queen Azshara type, or Xavius type or Farondis type, or Estulan type, or an ancient Moon Guard master who's been in Moonguard stronghold and now rejoined. Or an ancient Shen'dralar highborne or other type of Highborne from 10k years ago.

You can't do this on a Thalassian elf, you can't do this on a Nightborne - because they are not night elves, they are not Highborne, they are not Moon Guard.

That high arcane, high civilization elf fantasy is not restricted to the horde, nor to the Thalassian, it pre-existed the launch of the blood elves in TFT, and the Nightborne are specifically based off of it, they are not a replacement of it.


2. This is clever guise to get rid of night elven arcane fantasies - the thing is, if 3 elf groups are so similar, shouldn't they be the ones to diversify? Shouldn't we see some more forest love in Blood elves and Nightborne? Nightborne are pre-sundering kaldorei right? How about more Elunism and druidism? They need the Arcan'dor right, and Elune is cultural... why should it just be the Night elves, who's arcane legacy is an original part of their identity be the one to have it all disappear because the horde got the sub-race rather than the sub-race just reflecting portions of the core race instead of replacing them.

Night elf civilization is different from blood elven one, so just because Thalassians have civilization doesn't mean that night elves should only focus on the forest - it's like telling Forsaken or Kul'tirans hey, we got cities and arcane so you focus on something else.. because in lala land we absolutely can't have anything in common even though we are the same species, and we are actually supposed to be off shoots.

= it's a theft attempt by subtle argument. The night elves can totally have their dark elf identity alongside their wood elf identity - it's already part of their lore, it's famous, and liked, what they did in Thalassian Elves was something different than that. And while what they did in Nightborne was essentially the night elf stuff, like all the other allied races, it's not supposed to be a permanent replacement for having it on the night elves or cutting off nelf development,

You do that, you basically saying any allied race that has something strong from a core race warrants the core race not having it any longer - that's messed up logic. Nightborne are not night elves exactly, you can't play your pre-sundering night elf with Nightborne even if they are in a pre-sundering night elf city, it's a new fantasy, because a change has happened. While Highborne still exist and are growing.. do you understand any of this?