Humanity's Kyrian Origins

[Kyphael]

I'm admittedly shitposting to poke fun at how many things use a very 'human' model and how people will consider vrykul a separate species despite being 'slightly bulkier, and they have beards!'

Certainly is fun to speculate, but like most questions in life about the origins of almost everything, unless Blizzard comes out and maps out a clear and linear history of their universe, in chronological order, we'll never know, and to be quite frank... I don't think they know either. Shadowlands conceptualized introduces so many plot holes and inconsistencies they have to pad out, more so than I believe they brainstormed through entirely.

[Vasti]

or maybe like in all fantasy worlds nature/evolution/creation just favors that form above non-humanoids
Same way it favors giving breasts to all females of every race (even the non-mammalian based races, or those whose mamary glands would not be on their chests most likely (looking at you dryads)

So the answers is probably less lore/scientific and more: Because Fantasy!

[Mace]

but aren't the Vrykul the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs?

Humans are also the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs.

Aren't Vrykul both titan construct and flesh versions?

I think the technical name for the titan constructs are Valarjar - the Vrykul then the fleshed version or both?

[Feanoro]

No. You're listening to shit that isn't true. Humans aren't related to anything in the Shadowlands at all. Come on dude.

Maladraxxus is "Scourge but better!"
Ardenweald is "druidic forests but better!"
Kyrians are "Valkyr but better!"

I know the OP is posting a hypothesis, but with most of SL so far being teenage hack writing "Well, all that stuff akshually is watered down versions of my totally original story!", it wouldn't surprise me if that hypothesis is correct or close.

[plz delete account]

It's so dumb that Blizzard decided to open the scope of the Shadowlands to be "all of the warcraft universe, planets etcetera" rather than just the death realm of Azeroth.

Because your portrayal of the Shadowlands is going to be so small it's unbelievable. Are you telling me literally everything that dies in the whole universe, billions of stars and so forth are now fitting into this little 4 realm locale?

I know the cop out answer is "but this is only a slice of shadowlands", which begs the question why we're dealing with this in particular to begin with.

These four realms happen to be the ones most in trouble from the Anima drought to begin with according to blizz.

[Dellis0991]

Kyrians has nothing to do with humanity's origin, Kyrian just happens to take on a humanoid appearance that is reminisce of humans. Humans ain't nothing but stunned off shoot of Vrykul who are a off shoot of flesh cursed titan constructs. It does not matter if the shadowlands predate the titans, humans do not find their origin in the land of the dead.

[Rune B]

Let's remember that this is a *fantasy* universe. There's no direct evolution parallel to our world. Stuff evolves primarily by magic. And the realm of death is... abstract.

Call it convergent evolution, if it makes you feel better.

"In evolutionary biology, convergent evolution is the process whereby organisms independently evolve similar traits as a result of having to adapt to similar environments or ecological niches."

[Skytotem]

Humans are also the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs.

Aren't Vrykul both titan construct and flesh versions?

I think the technical name for the titan constructs are Valarjar - the Vrykul then the fleshed version or both?

I think Valarjar are ONLY odyn's folks, rather than the non-flesh ones in general.

[Surfd]

I am not 100% certain, but I think the OG Vrykul were actually among the first "biological" titan constructs, and may have actually been the original "Sentient life" occupants the titans intended to have occupy azeroth: it's original colonizers so to speak.

From what I remember, EVERY other type of titan construct (MGnomes, Earthen, Tolvir, Mogu, etc) were non biological (animated stone or mechanical constructs or the like) who were basically created to serve as maintenance drones or construction forces or some other type of servitor from what the lore tells us.

The curse of flesh altered them, creating Gnomes, Dwarves, Troggs etc, but in the case of the Vyrkul, since they were already flesh to begin with, it instead weakened them, eventually resulting in humans.

If I remember the lore correctly, the Iron Vyrkul / Iron Dwarves / Iron Giants were second string: They were created by Loki after he co-opted the forge of wills. They had nothing to do with the vyrkul, who had by that time put themselves into somekind of suspended animation in the various cavern halls around northrend in an effort to possibly out last the effects of the Curse of Flesh.

I could be wrong somewhere in there, but from what I remember of all the Wrath Lore, I don't recall there ever having been an actual explanation as to what the "purpose" of the Vyrkul as Titan Constructs was supposed to be (as compared to, say, the MechaGnomes or the Earthen).

[TheFirstOnes]

Maladraxxus is "Scourge but better!"
Ardenweald is "druidic forests but better!"
Kyrians are "Valkyr but better!"

I know the OP is posting a hypothesis, but with most of SL so far being teenage hack writing "Well, all that stuff akshually is watered down versions of my totally original story!", it wouldn't surprise me if that hypothesis is correct or close.

Maldraxxus is the militaristic force of the Shadowlands. KJ was so impressed by the forces there, that he made the Scourge in the image of Maldraxxus' forces. Is it a retcon? Sure. Does it help develop why he made the Scourge the way he did? Of course. The guy still has necromancy and whatnot. Maldraxxus merely gave KJ the idea of what his Scourge would look like.

Ardenweald is confirmed to be the winter/autumn version of the Emerald Dream. There is NOTHING wrong here. The whole "Druidic forests but better" argument can be used on the Emerald Dream, Ashenvale, etc as well when compared to Teldrassil.

Also, the Kyrians are basically the OG Val'kyr, and they also confirm what the Spirit Healer's race is. Pretty sure the Val'kyr are either select warrior Kyrians that were sent to aid mortals or some shit like that, or they were designed by Odyn, or both in the current lore. That part isn't really explained all that well, I will admit.

"SL so far being teenage hack writing "Well, all that stuff akshually is watered down versions of my totally original story!"" They are completely OG stories that connect to other areas/creatures of WoW we've seen. What's so hard to understand here?

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I think Valarjar are ONLY odyn's folks, rather than the non-flesh ones in general.

The Valarjar are only Odyn's folk, yes.

[Feanoro]

What's so hard to understand here?

Exactly my question to you. All of these "new" ideas are retreads of existing themes/concepts, while claiming to be what inspired those existing ideas. It's lazy, cheapens the old concepts, and is in no way original.

[mickybrighteyes]

Humans are also the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs.

Aren't Vrykul both titan construct and flesh versions?

I think the technical name for the titan constructs are Valarjar - the Vrykul then the fleshed version or both?

Point is that humans are from Vrykul who are from a titan construct (valarjar are Odin's that might be converted Vrykul who died and are stormforged/titanforged?). Assuming an oriign other than titans sseems a bit lacking with infoirmation now... but i guess we're going to get a whole new batch of lore that has titans NOT being original creators

[Kyphael]

Let's remember that this is a *fantasy* universe. There's no direct evolution parallel to our world. Stuff evolves primarily by magic. And the realm of death is... abstract.

Call it convergent evolution, if it makes you feel better.

"In evolutionary biology, convergent evolution is the process whereby organisms independently evolve similar traits as a result of having to adapt to similar environments or ecological niches."

This was my thought process on it instead of trying to make heads or tails about Blizzard suddenly introducing and mapping out their afterlife and concept of what are essentially angels. The only thing I know for sure is, when I'm killing Kyrian, I'll be doing it to the sounds of Chop Suey by System of a Down.

[Dundebuns]

Broken down to the barest bones, this sounds a lot like "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"

The egg. It was laid by the thing that the chicken evolved from.

Also afaik the Titans created their consrtucts in their image, so Vrykul, and by extension humanity resemble the titans.

[Skytotem]

"SL so far being teenage hack writing "Well, all that stuff akshually is watered down versions of my totally original story!"" They are completely OG stories that connect to other areas/creatures of WoW we've seen. What's so hard to understand here?

Everyone UNDERSTANDS no one CARES what the explanation is, they're still stupid "Existing X thing amped up to 11"

And instead of being COOL all they do is diminish their predecessors.

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The egg. It was laid by the thing that the chicken evolved from.

Also afaik the Titans created their consrtucts in their image, so Vrykul, and by extension humanity resemble the titans.

That's kind of my joke, since Titans are World Souls they wouldn't normally have a uniform appearance, right? So clearly when they were first 'born' Aman'thul copied Kyrians and then the others just did variations on his look.

(The answer is that Blizz just did them this way, there's no deep thought or mystery to any of it, everyone taking this thread seriously is a goofball)

[Wilfire]

The Titans model themselves and their creations after the Kyrians
Odyn looks into the Shadowlands and turns Kyrian-y Vrykul even more Kyrian-y with wings n shit

...

[Chonar]

Of the myriad of death-realm races found in the Shadowlands that we've seen sofar, I'm okay with the Bluuman Group being the most human(oid) in appearance.

We can't all be space energy-mummies, vampiregargoyles, mushroomhat people and spidercentaurs.

[huth]

So LORD RUIN on the SoL discord made this observation and it jumped out at me.

If the Shadowlands existed before the Titans, then it means the World Souls based the Vrykul, and possibly their own forms, on things they saw in the Shadowlands, the Kyrians, and that this is why humans are so easily raised by death magic.

(Obviously this is a Watsonian rather than a Doylist explanation, but when Blizz gives us trash lore like Shadowlands having Bluemans you gotta make do)

Or they could just have looked in a mirror and base them on that. No need to involve the Shadowlands. Not sure where you're getting from that humans are more easily affected by death magic than others, or why this would even cause it.

The observation is patent nonsense based on superficial similarities while simultaneously ignoring the same superficial similarities in a far more easily accessible source.

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Maldraxxus is the militaristic force of the Shadowlands. KJ was so impressed by the forces there, that he made the Scourge in the image of Maldraxxus' forces. Is it a retcon? Sure.

Actually, that's an expansion, not a retcon. Previously, we had no idea where he got the idea from.

[TheFirstOnes]

Exactly my question to you. All of these "new" ideas are retreads of existing themes/concepts, while claiming to be what inspired those existing ideas. It's lazy, cheapens the old concepts, and is in no way original.

WoD was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet the plot was good till Blizzard gave up post 6.0.

TBC was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that was one of Blizzard's most unique expansions yet.

Cata was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that was a pretty unique expansion done by Blizzard as well.

MoP was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that was arguably one of Blizzard's best expansions lore-wise.

WoTLK was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that was arguably one of Blizzard's best expansions in general.

BFA was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that didn't stop anyone from playing, because we've used to it already, as well as the fact that each and EVERY WoW Expansion has its unique own shit despite being retreads of shit that happened in the fucking RTS games.

Legion was a "retread of existing ideas, themes, and concepts", yet that was the most expansive Expansion Blizzard has EVER done lore-wise (Good or not, Legion was the most expansive lore expansion).

Idk why you think Blizzard "taking concepts/ideas from before and utilizing them for an expansion" is a bad thing. That's what they've always done. And while doing such, they've also applied new shit into them that made each expansion feel unique, vast, and new.

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Everyone UNDERSTANDS no one CARES what the explanation is, they're still stupid "Existing X thing amped up to 11"

And instead of being COOL all they do is diminish their predecessors.

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Except NO ONE knew of the Kyrians outside of what we saw with the Spirit healer. No one really knew why KJ decided to make the Scourge the way they are outside of the fact that he wanted to use Necromancy (Still doesn't explain the buildings, necropolis' and shit. None of which are shit the LK could craft on Azeroth), no one knew about "parallels" between the Emerald Dream. No one knew about the infinite realms of the Shadowlands in general. A lot of this shit is new. Oribos is new, the zones are new, the races are new, the lore is new, etc etc.

[Mic_128]

From what I remember, EVERY other type of titan construct (MGnomes, Earthen, Tolvir, Mogu, etc) were non biological (animated stone or mechanical constructs or the like) who were basically created to serve as maintenance drones or construction forces or some other type of servitor from what the lore tells us.

I could be wrong somewhere in there, but from what I remember of all the Wrath Lore, I don't recall there ever having been an actual explanation as to what the "purpose" of the Vyrkul as Titan Constructs was supposed to be (as compared to, say, the MechaGnomes or the Earthen).

I was under the impression that they, along with Tyr, were warriors to fight against the Old Gods and the Black Empire.