[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Beloren]

We know from former devs BElves were a response to Korean players wanting a pretty race for their girlfriends, so lore was beaten in a dark alley to make it happen.

Belves weren't initially created to fuel that animosity, although using Belves instead of high elves was expressly for the horde. the 90% population decimation was part of the TBC lore, before that we didn't know what the numbers were - it was that much to nail blood elves fully on the horde, this was the playable faction high elves would now appear as.

I thought it was for chinese players as the rumour goes.. I give up tracking these things, BElves were always going to come. high elves were the next slated alliance race, it just went horde because of the high demand for players on the horde.

We owe the horde for the reason blood elves look so good, they tried extra hard to make them appealing enough to draw players away from the alliance. Many of your blood elf fans today were initially alliance NElf and humans .

[ravenmoon]

so the "humans" in Beyond the Dark Portal Tomb of Sargeras are Farondis ghosts and Moonguard, I assume?

No, those would be human, campaign activity, not native

[Vaedan]

We know from former devs BElves were a response to Korean players wanting a pretty race for their girlfriends, so lore was beaten in a dark alley to make it happen.

Well, I've also heard that. I believe that most important reasons were
- They needed a race with connection to Outland for both factions to fit thematics of TBC
- They needed race which opened paladins to the Horde and shamans to the Alliance

Blood elves does not really serves the purpose of Alliance shaman race.

Belves weren't initially created to fuel that animosity, although using Belves instead of high elves was expressly for the horde. the 90% population decimation was part of the TBC lore, before that we didn't know what the numbers were - it was that much to nail blood elves fully on the horde, this was the playable faction high elves would now appear as.

I thought it was for chinese players as the rumour goes.. I give up tracking these things, BElves were always going to come. high elves were the next slated alliance race, it just went horde because of the high demand for players on the horde.

We owe the horde for the reason blood elves look so good, they tried extra hard to make them appealing enough to draw players away from the alliance. Many of your blood elf fans today were initially alliance NElf and humans .

The thing is, they could just add blood elves as they portrayed them in TBC to the Alliance and it would not cause that many issues. They would be the Alliance's version of the Forsaken - dangerous and mistrusted allies who are being carefuly watched by other nations. They would not have to be high elves.

I don't think they wanted to make blood elves good to draw players from the Alliance. Sure, they made them cool, but draenei were also pretty epic back in the day. I remember that some of the horde players were not happy with getting elves and were yelling they want draenei or ogres instead. Once TBC launched, you actually had problems with belf character on the Horde. I made a blood elf mage then and I was targeted by lots of mockery back then, and I was not even on RP server. I really got offended for being gay quite often, so I gave up on the Horde and got back to the Alliance. Months later, Horde began to be dominated by blood elven paladin chicks and the race started to be popular... but the initial reception was not really warm.

[Feanoro]

@EnigmAddict @Vaedan That comes straight from the TBC era devs in that recent book, The WoW Diary: A Journal of Computer Game Development. I'm linking it as proof there is such a book, not to advertise it.

[Beloren]

@EnigmAddict @Vaedan That comes straight from the TBC era devs in that recent book, The WoW Diary: A Journal of Computer Game Development. I'm linking it as proof there is such a book, not to advertise it.

You mean it is actually stated there it was for the Korean players?

I know they mentioned it was to attract players to the horde because the numbers were low, they mentioned that themselves to us, but maybe the real motivation wasn't that, it was only partial, and the incentive was for the Koreans.

But why horde though? Surely if the Koreans wanted Blood elves it wouldn't matter if it were horde or alliance as long as they came.

[Feanoro]

You mean it is actually stated there it was for the Korean players?

I know they mentioned it was to attract players to the horde because the numbers were low, they mentioned that themselves to us, but maybe the real motivation wasn't that, it was only partial, and the incentive was for the Koreans.

But why horde though? Surely if the Koreans wanted Blood elves it wouldn't matter if it were horde or alliance as long as they came.

Someone around here has the exact quote in their signature, can't recall who.

[Hellspawn]

I think this is correct

How far into development of bc did the team decide on blood elfs. At the time you where there, did they consider blood elfs as high elfs, or think of them as 2 different races?

They were distinct pretty early on - the Blood Elf starting zone was one of the earliest pieces of BC content and was highly polished by the time we rolled into testing.

I do remember a certain poor 3d artist having to chop the Silvermoon city into pieces because it was so overloaded many GPUs would overheat just loading it.

OH - one thing I vaguely remember was that Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of asian players (either korean or chinese - I can't remember which was live at that point) - where many remarked on the horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play.

[Mace]

I think this is correct

Ah, this quote, people exaggerate if they think it was only for them, it may be what nailed it, or gave them the idea to give blood elves to the horde. That was unthinkable back them, because, you dont get more alliances and human like than Thalassian elves - the far opposite of the horde, the perfect human type.


These elves were even more alliance than humans in my mind. You could imagine a human group might join the horde, especially aggressive bandit types or code of honour mercenary types, or turncoat types like Alterac and even undead types, but not righteous, noble high elf types.

But it happened

[A Dark Knight]

a nelf capitol on kalomidor? near the horde capitol???

B U R N I T

[Ardenaso]

Yep, pretty much this. Blizzard want the factions hating each other and wanting to fight each other, therefore if you are on one faction this really means you are opposed to the other.

The position has sort of softened and strengthened at the same time, races on the same faction are closer than previously - like blood elves seem a lot closer to orcs and others now, meanwhile I would imagine night elves and high elves get along much more, as seen by some high elves fighting with the night elves in Stonetalon mountain in cata remake.

In WC3, it seems she did. I guess that animosity between elves was invented to strenghten blood elven position in the Horde, since it was most highlighted during TBC era.

We know from former devs BElves were a response to Korean players wanting a pretty race for their girlfriends, so lore was beaten in a dark alley to make it happen.

if the Night Elves were Horde in the first place at least the lore of them regarding the Blood Elves wouldn't be butchered as much

[Hellspawn]

if the Night Elves were Horde in the first place at least the lore of them regarding the Blood Elves wouldn't be butchered as much

But if night elf were horde, the Korean Horde "girlfriends" would already have a non-creepy femme race to play

On a more serious note, the night elf - blood elf relations was by far not the worst bit of lore they butchered with the Kaldorei back then.

[Mace]

if the Night Elves were Horde in the first place at least the lore of them regarding the Blood Elves wouldn't be butchered as much

Surely the first butchering is actually blood elves on the horde? They don't fit there, they are even further away fromt eh hrode than humans are.. yet..

The horde would have been more popular with Night elves on it for sure in the start, but it would have been more wrong to put them there. They should have had either multiple factions or a neutral races group.

Night elves and Forsaken would have been on the neutral races group. Later Draenei and Blood Elves - and these would have been fairly independent groups.

Worgen and Goblin would have added to the horde

Pandaren would have gone to neutral

Void elves and Nightborne netural.


Neutral races would not have interfered with the faction dichotomy. Horde and alliance would have kept their identity and you could decide which faction's wars to take part in.

Places like WSG would be a racial war, rather than faction. I think that would work.

[Feanoro]

if the Night Elves were Horde in the first place at least the lore of them regarding the Blood Elves wouldn't be butchered as much

Night Elves shouldn't have been Horde or Alliance, but definitely not Horde after Grom killed Cenarius.

[Ardenaso]

Surely the first butchering is actually blood elves on the horde? They don't fit there, they are even further away fromt eh hrode than humans are.. yet..

The horde would have been more popular with Night elves on it for sure in the start, but it would have been more wrong to put them there. They should have had either multiple factions or a neutral races group.

Night Elves shouldn't have been Horde or Alliance, but definitely not Horde after Grom killed Cenarius.

the Night Elves have more resonance with spiritual tauren, and shamanistic orcs and trolls than let's say... human mages, human paladins and priests who will see the night elves as heathens and dwarves who like to destroy nature for the lulz

the pre-WC3 status with the Alliance wasn't better either, the Night Elves killed Alliance too and they brought magical arcane High Elves with them, and who knows their Dwarves have been digging and exacavting Kal'dorei shrines that time too; the only reason why the Night Elves became Alliance was that the Warsong Clan continued to harass them post-WC3 which shouldn't have happened in the first place

[Mace]

the Night Elves have more resonance with spiritual tauren, and shamanistic orcs and trolls than let's say... human mages, human paladins and priests who will see the night elves as heathens and dwarves who like to destroy nature for the lulz

the pre-WC3 status with the Alliance wasn't better either, the Night Elves killed Alliance too and they brought magical arcane High Elves with them, and who knows their Dwarves have been digging and exacavting Kal'dorei shrines that time too; the only reason why the Night Elves became Alliance was that the Warsong Clan continued to harass them post-WC3 which shouldn't have happened in the first place

I can see how it appears that way from their intro in wc3 as a forest dwelling group, but that was only a part of them, their other equally important and very away from the horde sides just not given screentime.

But they could have been shown like the Nightborne and been on the horde...after all the Nightborne are that very other side of them and they're horde.

For da horde!!

[Ardenaso]

No, those would be human, campaign activity, not native

but there's no reference about any Alliance chasing Gul'dan and Cho'gall

- - - Updated - - -

I can see how it appears that way from their intro in wc3 as a forest dwelling group, but that was only a part of them, their other equally important and very away from the horde sides just not given screentime.

pardon my poor reading comprehension but, what?

[Beloren]

I think, night elves should share a capital with void elves.

Move em to some new zone like Thal'dranath that never made it, and make it joint capital, then they can go fighting g for Kalimdor, swinging from trees like monkeys and void elves can go chill in Stormwi d via a portal to it

[Ardenaso]

Surely the first butchering is actually blood elves on the horde? They don't fit there, they are even further away fromt eh hrode than humans are.. yet..

The horde would have been more popular with Night elves on it for sure in the start, but it would have been more wrong to put them there. They should have had either multiple factions or a neutral races group.

Night elves and Forsaken would have been on the neutral races group. Later Draenei and Blood Elves - and these would have been fairly independent groups.

Worgen and Goblin would have added to the horde

Pandaren would have gone to neutral

Void elves and Nightborne netural.


Neutral races would not have interfered with the faction dichotomy. Horde and alliance would have kept their identity and you could decide which faction's wars to take part in.


Places like WSG would be a racial war, rather than faction. I think that would work.

kinda realized another reason why Night Elves were thrusted into the Alliance because if they were Horde the Alliance wouldn't have enough races

Vanilla:
Alliance: Stormwindian Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Gnome
Horde: Orc, Darkspear Troll, Night Elf, Tauren

The Burning Crusade
Alliance: Broken Draenei*
Horde: Blood Elf**

Cataclysm
Alliance: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Horde: Ogre, Forsaken***

*no Eredar retcons, etc.
** Tyrande would've sent her Night Elves as goodwill to Kael'thas and they help the Blood Elves recover, the saboteurs would be High Elf exiles instead
*** the Forsaken would be neutral like an evil Argent Dawn until the end of WotLK because they have no more purpose after getting their vengeance on Arthas

but anyway, now that we're here; the Ogres and Furbolgs are pretty much long past due

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I think, night elves should share a capital with void elves.

well yeah, now that the Legion threat is over; Tyrande and Malfurion should've allowed Mordent, Vereesa, and their people to bask in their Well of Eternity

other than that, Eldre'thalas should be a new hub for Highborne, High Elves, and Void Elves

[Beloren]

kinda realized another reason why Night Elves were thrusted into the Alliance because if they were Horde the Alliance wouldn't have enough races

Vanilla:
Alliance: Stormwindian Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Gnome
Horde: Orc, Darkspear Troll, Night Elf, Tauren

The Burning Crusade
Alliance: Broken Draenei*
Horde: Blood Elf**

Cataclysm
Alliance: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Horde: Ogre, Forsaken***

*no Eredar retcons, etc.
** Tyrande would've sent her Night Elves as goodwill to Kael'thas and they help the Blood Elves recover, the saboteurs would be High Elf exiles instead
*** the Forsaken would be neutral like an evil Argent Dawn until the end of WotLK because they have no more purpose after getting their vengeance on Arthas

but anyway, now that we're here; the Ogres and Furbolgs are pretty much long past due

- - - Updated - - -



well yeah, now that the Legion threat is over; Tyrande and Malfurion should've allowed Mordent, Vereesa, and their people to bask in their Well of Eternity

other than that, Eldre'thalas should be a new hub for Highborne, High Elves, and Void Elves

I think void elf should be the highborne factor for alliance elves, and integrate them with night elves. You can have a token shen'dralar, utmost night elves in a forest, and maybe a night elf temple and void elf/high elf homes.

Mace made an excellent point for why night elves shouldnt have a capital, because they likempure forest, so you can only justify one with void elves. The night elves do the temple and that's it.

But then again, a temple doesn't really fit the night elf vibe to be fair, why all of a sudden need a temple after 10k years without one? Let it be a void temple, and the priesthood could join the druids in the trees and caves, I think it would be really cool to have night elves swinging down on ropes from trees, with war paint faces, cat like snarls, and ripping their opponents to death with their long claw like nails and fangs.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The whole issue with a NE "capital" is that they never had one, not during the Long Vigil at least. They spent all that time dwelling in the forests of Ashenvale, Darkshore, and what would later be Felwood. Darnassus worked quite well in that sense, since it provided all the amenities of a major city, while being geographically isolated enough as to discourage players to gather massively in it. In Vanilla, it was the polar opposite to Ironforge... And I love those little details.

But part of the culmination of the Long Vigil is reuniting with the world, forming part of it once again as more than sentries to a foretold invasion, so it makes sense for them to have a capital city then, and try to have one again now. Even if it's for morale rather than the actual need of a centralized power infrastructure. They could go without a capital, but a capital makes sense in terms of re-establishing themselves as part of the world.