Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Biomega]

A Reset would be satisfying for many fans for emotional reasons, but I'm not sure it would fix the financial future of the franchise.

That would all depend on the quality of the products going forward. I'm not privy to all the data, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney has lost a good share of the audience from how they treated the latest trilogy and the spinoff movies, and getting those people's confidence back will not be an easy task.

The Mandalorian is a good sign. Not without its flaws, for sure, it was nevertheless one of the best SW products we've seen in the new era. And it does seem to suggest that Favreau knows what he's doing; or, at least, knows it more than the other people involved with the previous new installments (like JJ "Star (Trek/Wars) Killer" Abrams).

Is that a real possibility going forward? I can't see why it wouldn't be. Comic books do that all the time. Star Trek basically did it, after the new movies alienated so many fans and are now basically shelved as "so, all this happened somewhere/sometime else"-canon.

What seems certain, though, is that Disney needs to think REAL hard about how to take SW forward. They paid a fortune for the franchise; they can't abandon it. SOMETHING will be done.

[PaladinSum]

As a person that really doesn't like the new sequel triology, not only won't this happen, it shouldn't.

This is what Disney wanted. They wanted this triology. They wanted Rey to be the only Skywalker left. They wanted none of the new characters to be worth caring about.

The only way they can move forward is by ditching the story and names they made with a time jump. They deserve their fate for sloppy movie making. But I do love the idea of the rumor. Like all the bad will would vanish by doing this. But I do approve of Harrison Ford demanding piles of money and being killed off again before he comes back again, once more.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I very much doubt it would turn out better. The people at the top are still the same fundamentally lacking dipshits that can't even get the basics right (like actually planning for a trilogy when filming one) and only have their jobs because of nepotism and fear of bad PR.

[Ragedaug]

I very much doubt it would turn out better. The people at the top are still the same fundamentally lacking dipshits that can't even get the basics right (like actually planning for a trilogy when filming one) and only have their jobs because of nepotism and fear of bad PR.

The "people at the top" is Kathleen Kennedy. Per their agreement with Lucas, when they bought Star Wars, Disney gave Kennedy full control over the franchise. I think the Disney execs couldn't care less what's in the movies so long as it makes them rich. Because of the turmoil currently in Lucasfilm, the rumored battle is that Disney is looking to hand over the reigns from Kennedy to Jon Favreau, who many would argue has remained loyal to Lucas' story and the fandom as well as someone who generally 'gets it'.

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They can experiment with that.

The 200 years ballpark was mostly to retain world recognizable to movie fans. You'd still have various surnames of note popping up, the inevitable new Jedi order and new Sith would still be pretty young and have various growing pains and maybe things would get mixed up a tad, like that comic idea about Imperial Jedi Knights 100 years down the road and new new Empire being just one out of several superpowers and becoming much more normal under leadership of actually sane person you can get behind.

They could make a new Sith order who abolished the rule of two and took a chill pill, turning them in some sort of antiheroes or at least not full balls to the wall cackling Saturday morning cartoon villians.

They could conjure some new threat too in such a case like Rakata somehow emerging again and Jedi/Sith eventually combined struggle against them or any other new Force-sensitive species, because there are a lot aside from Jedi and Sith who are just as powerful if not more powerful even.

They could do a lot. Maybe they should do some sort of trial there with some short stories set after the trilogy just to test waters.

In order to get more than just the hard-core, die-hard Star Wars fan base (also known as 'nerds'), they would still have to find a way to tie this back to the story back to the original series if they expect to see 100+ million tickets sold. Otherwise, they are going to have to catch lightning-in-a-bottle twice and get lucky enough to create another group of characters we'll all fall in love with. You don't pay $4 Billion for a brand name if it's easy just to create new characters that 100 million people will pay to see every time you put them up on the big screen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not "the force" that most folks fell in love with, or "Sith" or "Jedi" or even "light sabers" as cool as they are. It's Han, Luke, and Leia most folks fell in love with. That's who Disney bought, when they bought the story. And that's what Kennedy pissed away seemingly having no clue what made Star Wars (at the time) worth $4 billion, and not having a clue what to do with it, figuring she could just make her own story and staple a "Star Wars" label on top of it.

[Eapoe]

Disney should just admit they messed up, leave it alone and move on. Make movies based off of new ideas and characters. Even if Disney doesn’t admit they messed up, just stop using the original storyline.
There are tons of old books (that are no longer canon) that they can draw inspiration from if they want to, as well as an entire universe to come up with new ideas for based on the groundwork.

[Biomega]

As a person that really doesn't like the new sequel triology, not only won't this happen, it shouldn't.

This is what Disney wanted. They wanted this triology. They wanted Rey to be the only Skywalker left. They wanted none of the new characters to be worth caring about.

Disney doesn't WANT anything other than make the maximum money they can. They thought - or, more accurately, some people in charge convinced the other execs - that going with the way they did on Rey etc. was the way to achieve that goal. It very evidently wasn't.

Disney doesn't really care about agendas, SJWing, or whatever - it's important to them, as a whole, only insofar as it translates to profit. If they really cared about being progressive they'd have made Elsa a lesbian in Frozen 2 or something like that, but it's economic suicide in China (one of their biggest markets) so that could never happen.

Their goal with Mary Ray was to create a new paradigm that reels in demographics not yet hooked on SW, while banking on the die-hard fans to basically swallow anything they come up with because it's SW. Obviously that didn't work to the degree they hoped. Mind you, it's tough to look at films with a box office of multi-$100m each and say things didn't go well, but they are operating at different levels of projections. They made a LOT less than they thought they would. And they WILL be looking for where it went wrong.

How they try to fix things is up in the air, but you can count on changes being made.

[Zuben]

The Rise of Skywalker seemed like patchwork to fix what The Last Jedi broke. Unknown whether this confusion was always part of the plan or Rian Johnson deviating from it, but the foundation Force Awakens built was far better than what they continued it with. Either way I enjoyed the in-between movies more, especially Solo.

[Gaidax]

In order to get more than just the hard-core, die-hard Star Wars fan base (also known as 'nerds'), they would still have to find a way to tie this back to the story back to the original series if they expect to see 100+ million tickets sold. Otherwise, they are going to have to catch lightning-in-a-bottle twice and get lucky enough to create another group of characters we'll all fall in love with. You don't pay $4 Billion for a brand name if it's easy just to create new characters that 100 million people will pay to see every time you put them up on the big screen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's not "the force" that most folks fell in love with, or "Sith" or "Jedi" or even "light sabers" as cool as they are. It's Han, Luke, and Leia most folks fell in love with. That's who Disney bought, when they bought the story. And that's what Kennedy pissed away seemingly having no clue what made Star Wars (at the time) worth $4 billion, and not having a clue what to do with it, figuring she could just make her own story and staple a "Star Wars" label on top of it.

I don't really think so.

You have quite a few Star Wars spin offs that are super popular, whether it's Mandalorian or Rogue One - these all had little to do, if at all, with Han, Leia or Luke. You don't see so called "hardcore fans" scream at top of their lungs how Mandalorian or Old Republic has betrayed their feelings because it does not have Skywalkers in it.

People do love the universe - yes, force is not THE most important thing, but imo it's that special sauce that adds some sort of interesting flair to otherwise plain sci-fi.

If anything, beating a dead horse further would be just poking hornet's nest for nothing. I think it's about time to put the current main movie line characters to rest and open a new page. That's where said gold mine is, not in dragging out original saga's characters out of their graves for another remake/expansion/whatever that might just both not deliver and make a whole lot of mess of the shit.


If you ask me, personally, I am not so sure what's everyone pissing steam about Force Awakens trilogy. Yes movies had their cringe and all, but overreaching story is fine to keep as is. IMO, doing a reset back would be a case of Lucas/Disney not having balls to move forward, which they absolutely can from this point.

[Gallahadd]

Technically, the Sonic movie set the precedent when it comes to fan backlash causing the final product to change and go back to the literal drawing board.

The big difference between those situations is that Sonic released a 2 mins trailer, heard the backlash and changed things BEFORE the film came out. Nothing was finalised when they changed Sonic's design.

Star Wars released three full movies, 2 prequels and a shitload of books.

For them to wipe their hands of the product after the fact, and take a second swing at making a trilogy is a far, FAR bigger deal that correcting one character design before a single film has been released.

That's why I 100% support the Sonic movie making changes, and 100% oppose Star Wars having a reset.

[minteK917]

The big difference between those situations is that Sonic released a 2 mins trailer, heard the backlash and changed things BEFORE the film came out. Nothing was finalised when they changed Sonic's design.

Star Wars released three full movies, 2 prequels and a shitload of books.

For them to wipe their hands of the product after the fact, and take a second swing at making a trilogy is a far, FAR bigger deal that correcting one character design before a single film has been released.

That's why I 100% support the Sonic movie making changes, and 100% oppose Star Wars having a reset.

But the problem is your logic is not all there. You are thinking like the journalists that always complain about this shit, surface level. A company does not have to ever put itself in the position that a full reset or redo of a thing is a lucrative investment for the future. Mabye if Hollywood did less copy pasta from your childhood and trying to make 30 movie about the same thing back to back they wouldnt end up in this situation where fans can go, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DO X TO SOMETHING I LOVED. The laziness in Hollywood is as much to blame for things like the star wars saga or movies like ghost in the shell, artemis foul. Hollywood going for the quick cash, playing fast and loose giving a mediocre product because they think you should just eat it up all. This precedence simply help fix that, eventually if you are too tired remaking your movies because fan outrage, be fucking original and find new fucking scripts or pay respect to the books and franchises you buy to adapt, there might be a reason why you adpted them? Because you are lazy and the story you bought the rights from was already popular, if it was popular, perhaps following what made it popular is the key for why it could make you money? I think disney is the perfect candidate for showing us artistic degeneracy hollywood has become as a machine, since disney is a endless money pit and their nearing monopoly being one of the bigger problem this industry has.

[Gaidax]

But the problem is your logic is not all there. You are thinking like the journalists that always complain about this shit, surface level. A company does not have to ever put itself in the position that a full reset or redo of a thing is a lucrative investment for the future. Mabye if Hollywood did less copy pasta from your childhood and trying to make 30 movie about the same thing back to back they wouldnt end up in this situation where fans can go, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DO X TO SOMETHING I LOVED. The laziness in Hollywood is as much to blame for things like the star wars saga or movies like ghost in the shell, artemis foul. Hollywood going for the quick cash, playing fast and loose giving a mediocre product because they think you should just eat it up all. This precedence simply help fix that, eventually if you are too tired remaking your movies because fan outrage, be fucking original and find new fucking scripts or pay respect to the books and franchises you buy to adapt, there might be a reason why you adpted them? Because you are lazy and the story you bought the rights from was already popular, if it was popular, perhaps following what made it popular is the key for why it could make you money? I think disney is the perfect candidate for showing us artistic degeneracy hollywood has become as a machine, since disney is a endless money pit and their nearing monopoly being one of the bigger problem this industry has.

Wall of text aside. I think the whole "laziness" is such an overused word buzzword there.

New trilogy was not "lazy" - they did a lot of effort there clearly and a lot of attention to fanbase. It was not some watercooler job movie there for a quick buck.

Their problem was direction and leadership, they started well - Force Awakens was good, IMO. The problem was The Last Jedi really that fucked things over and pulled the sequel with it.

The overall premise of the Last Jedi was not bad, in my opinion the way it started and the way it ended was pretty good (except that for the whole illusion thing, they really should have done it in person).

What happened in-between was scuffed - you could see it was a good idea, but it was executed poorly and then the whole Palpatine thing reveal at the beginning of 3rd movie was super weird. They 100% intended it to be like that, but they should have started dropping BIG hints midway already and not just conjuring emperor out of thin air first 3 minutes of 3rd movie.

There are various failures there, but it's not laziness.

[minteK917]

Wall of text aside. I think the whole "laziness" is such an overused word buzzword there.

New trilogy was not "lazy" - they did a lot of effort there clearly and a lot of attention to fanbase. It was not some watercooler job movie there for a quick buck.

Their problem was direction and leadership, they started well - Force Awakens was good, IMO. The problem was The Last Jedi really that fucked things over and pulled the sequel with it.

The overall premise of the Last Jedi was not bad, in my opinion the way it started and the way it ended was pretty good (except that for the whole illusion thing, they really should have done it in person).

What happened in-between was scuffed - you could see it was a good idea, but it was executed poorly and then the whole Palpatine thing reveal at the beginning of 3rd movie was super weird. They 100% intended it to be like that, but they should have started dropping BIG hints midway already and not just conjuring emperor out of thin air first 3 minutes of 3rd movie.

There are various failures there, but it's not laziness.

Rise of skywalker is 100% unplanned laziness. Like someone that woke up and remembered oh shit we need a 3rd one. Wait we killed everyone, hmm revive the emperor, make a scrolling text. Shit what is the story. Ok get the thing, to find the thing that get the thing that finds the secret room. There story is done. Wait people liked Rey and Kylo togheter, but the last jedi kinda ended it as quickly as it came, quickly have them kiss. A lazy as hell movie with no ideas what so ever, just trying to do everything to please everyone complaining or praising on twitter at once. The rise of skywalker is already what you think a universe reset would be a terrible degenrate attempt to please everyone.

I think you are confusing lazy story telling, with production value. Yes i know the guys making the costumes and the guys making the CGI arent lazy at all. Even the actors arent lazy, the laziness comes from the top.

Just like the ghost in the shell movie, nobody in the film is lazy, except who ever wrote that garbage and who accepted it thinking it was ghost in the shell, evil corporate guy, BECAUSE EVIL.

[NineSpine]

I don't really think so.

You have quite a few Star Wars spin offs that are super popular, whether it's Mandalorian or Rogue One - these all had little to do, if at all, with Han, Leia or Luke. You don't see so called "hardcore fans" scream at top of their lungs how Mandalorian or Old Republic has betrayed their feelings because it does not have Skywalkers in it.

People do love the universe - yes, force is not THE most important thing, but imo it's that special sauce that adds some sort of interesting flair to otherwise plain sci-fi.

If anything, beating a dead horse further would be just poking hornet's nest for nothing. I think it's about time to put the current main movie line characters to rest and open a new page. That's where said gold mine is, not in dragging out original saga's characters out of their graves for another remake/expansion/whatever that might just both not deliver and make a whole lot of mess of the shit.


If you ask me, personally, I am not so sure what's everyone pissing steam about Force Awakens trilogy. Yes movies had their cringe and all, but overreaching story is fine to keep as is. IMO, doing a reset back would be a case of Lucas/Disney not having balls to move forward, which they absolutely can from this point.

The sequel trilogy retcons the entire point of the original trilogy and the prequels. Vader’s sacrifice at the end was rendered moot. His fulfilling of the prophecy was retroactively undone.

It’s not just that the movies were poorly coordinated and lacked cohesion. They undid the main thematic thread of the other movies.

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Wall of text aside. I think the whole "laziness" is such an overused word buzzword there.

New trilogy was not "lazy" - they did a lot of effort there clearly and a lot of attention to fanbase. It was not some watercooler job movie there for a quick buck.

Their problem was direction and leadership, they started well - Force Awakens was good, IMO. The problem was The Last Jedi really that fucked things over and pulled the sequel with it.

The overall premise of the Last Jedi was not bad, in my opinion the way it started and the way it ended was pretty good (except that for the whole illusion thing, they really should have done it in person).

What happened in-between was scuffed - you could see it was a good idea, but it was executed poorly and then the whole Palpatine thing reveal at the beginning of 3rd movie was super weird. They 100% intended it to be like that, but they should have started dropping BIG hints midway already and not just conjuring emperor out of thin air first 3 minutes of 3rd movie.

There are various failures there, but it's not laziness.

When most people say “lazy” in this context, I think they mean “arrogant”. Yes, going through the motions took a lot of work, but it was clearly not done by people who had any sense of humility and did not have any introspection about what they were creating.

[Gaidax]

Rise of skywalker is 100% unplanned laziness. Like someone that woke up and remembered oh shit we need a 3rd one.

Rise of Skywalker main issue is that it did not have a proper setup in The Last Jedi. That's why I say The Last Jedi had a good start and end, but scuffed middle.

Emperor's clone should have been a thing all along, it was a thing even before Disney. They just should have started dropping hints in the second movie, if not first. This is why this sudden first minutes reveal is so weird in 3rd movie.

As a whole, the story went the way it was supposed to (mostly), but the pacing, staring 2nd movie got fucked.

[PaladinSum]

Disney doesn't WANT anything other than make the maximum money they can. They thought - or, more accurately, some people in charge convinced the other execs - that going with the way they did on Rey etc. was the way to achieve that goal. It very evidently wasn't.

Disney doesn't really care about agendas, SJWing, or whatever - it's important to them, as a whole, only insofar as it translates to profit. If they really cared about being progressive they'd have made Elsa a lesbian in Frozen 2 or something like that, but it's economic suicide in China (one of their biggest markets) so that could never happen.

Their goal with Mary Ray was to create a new paradigm that reels in demographics not yet hooked on SW, while banking on the die-hard fans to basically swallow anything they come up with because it's SW. Obviously that didn't work to the degree they hoped. Mind you, it's tough to look at films with a box office of multi-$100m each and say things didn't go well, but they are operating at different levels of projections. They made a LOT less than they thought they would. And they WILL be looking for where it went wrong.

How they try to fix things is up in the air, but you can count on changes being made.

I don't even care about "SJW" shenanigans from Disney. As you said, it's a cheap marketing ploy in this day and age. (Oh look, a lesbian kiss that's extremely tame and can be safely cut out for the foreign market. Worship us!)

This is what they wanted. If they didn't want this, they would have exercised some control early on. Get JJ to write a bit more of his trilogy Skeleton. Slap Rian for going rogue in the middle of a Trilogy. The only reason I liked them trying to "fix" everything with TROS because it was doomed to fail miserably. Kylo's red glue helmet is the perfect metaphor for modern star wars.

And this is Disney. They killed Disney Infinity for making money, but not enough. Each one making less money is making them shit a brick. But it's too late for meaningful change. Anyone that would care about something like this either

1. Knows it's only about recouping loses, not actually having a story they want to tell
2. Has no good will left after Lucasfilm decided to be outright hostile

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Wall of text aside. I think the whole "laziness" is such an overused word buzzword there.

New trilogy was not "lazy" - they did a lot of effort there clearly and a lot of attention to fanbase. It was not some watercooler job movie there for a quick buck.

Their problem was direction and leadership, they started well - Force Awakens was good, IMO. The problem was The Last Jedi really that fucked things over and pulled the sequel with it.

The overall premise of the Last Jedi was not bad, in my opinion the way it started and the way it ended was pretty good (except that for the whole illusion thing, they really should have done it in person).

What happened in-between was scuffed - you could see it was a good idea, but it was executed poorly and then the whole Palpatine thing reveal at the beginning of 3rd movie was super weird. They 100% intended it to be like that, but they should have started dropping BIG hints midway already and not just conjuring emperor out of thin air first 3 minutes of 3rd movie.

There are various failures there, but it's not laziness.

Blood. Palpatine being back is 100% an asspull because Smoke was dead and Kylo was too lame to be the final boss. This was never the plan. You can tell by the fact

1. The movie can't decide if he's a clone or never died
2. Snoke wanted Rey dead in the second movie. Which fucks up his "Real" plan
3. They think he can ever really be dead now because of what he survived to be alive

They didn't plan this one. It's completely a "Hey guys! Remember Palpatine?!".

[Rennadrel]

I don't think erasing the new trilogy is worth the trouble. Just move on with their high republic idea. Redoing the trilogy won't really work with Carrie Fischer gone, Harrison Ford is done, and Mark Hamill is past his time to carry a franchise.

And the High Republic idea will fail too because it's more of the same bullshit that the current trilogy idea was. Frankly, anything outside of the existing timeline will be very difficult to get people hooked on. They should have used the extended universe as it existed originally and followed some of those stories.

[Ihavewaffles]

Almost as dumb as quoting a huge post, only to add one line as your reply...

Back on topic:

I REALLY hope they don't reboot the trilogy. This has nothing to do with my opinions on the Disney Wars movies. Personally. I think they're deeply flawed, but I can watch them. Don't hate them anywhere near as much as many do, but I don't love them either. The biggest problem, IMO, was a lack of leadership and planning.

The reason why I don't want a reset, is because that will give every sad bastard that has spent every waking moment since these films came out railing against them every justification the need to KEEP doing shit like this. The moment that one company caves, and remakes a movie because the "Fans" complain enough, suddenly it becomes a valid way to act/react, and then no company will ever be safe again.

How awful, companies catering to its own fanbase instead of a few sjw lunatics virtueing on twitter...
It would make financial sense too

All unvalid reasons for u?..

[Lahis]

tl;dq

As hilarious as that would be, there is no way Disney would ever do that.

[PaladinSum]

How awful, companies catering to its own fanbase instead of a few sjw lunatics virtueing on twitter...
It would make financial sense too

All unvalid reasons for u?..

They haven't learned anything. There is no reason to respond positively to this if it weren't a crazy rumor.

What, you think Kathleen Kennedy headed Lucasfilm will actually call the movies they championed bad by calling a do over?

[Jastall]

My problem is creating alternate timelines. Like Gaidax noted, you can never undo that once you do it. And once you do it, nothing means anything and we'll just see story after story pumped out with absolutely no continuity to anything as they constantly create new timelines.



The problem with doing a 200 year time jump, is that Star Wars doesn't have a massive following beyond the original trilogy. So if you want to tap into that "auto-billion $$" box office, you have to use the characters people are vested in and will pay to watch, regardless of what the story is about.

IMO, do a reset, put the Disney created stories in Legends, and start over. To be honest, I don't know how they would do it. We lost Carrie, and I can't imagine how much money it would cost to get Harrison back. So we'd have Mark, that seems a given, and I'm not sure who else. That said, I'd welcome a George Lucas created story, with a good screenwriter & director who know how to honor source material and fandom.

Do you? The Mandalorian was very successful and featured no characters from the trilogy whatsoever. Sure, it featured character archetypes like Mando himself who is clearly a nicer Boba Fett, but Star Wars doesn't have to be about the original trilogy forever to work.