Originally Posted by
Kolvarg
That's a fair take, and I definitely see where you're coming from.
I guess the crux of my thought process is: how much of that (players not liking what happens to Joel and being unable to get "into" the story as a consequence) is the story's fault, and not just the player's? Can't this be a case of this story/game just not being for everyone, and not that the premise behind is broken?
I don't think going against what the players want is a bad/broken premise by itself. And as much as I think about it, I haven't been able to come up with, or see anyone giving any valid objective reason for that death being in any way bad storytelling.
Could they have done the same story with new characters? Technically yes, but they would have never been able to achieve what they actually wanted to do, which is to challenge the player over their own feelings towards a character they love. And would it even be a "The Last of Us" game, if they did it with new characters?
I have no trouble at all with anyone disliking the game, or the story. Like you say ultimately no matter how objective one tries to be, there's always a big degree of subjectivity to any game or story. Especially when one is only talking about whether they liked something or not, and not any sense of "objective" quality that something might have. It's entirely possible to like something "objectively" bad, as is it possible to dislike something "objectively" good. The problem I have is that the negative buzz as a whole tends to conflate their subjective opinion with the game being bad, or even horrible/terrible.
I think to me at least it's kinda similar with what happened with Death Stranding, where a lot of people were crapping on a game that simply wasn't for them. And in the same way it's not like that game didn't have its problems, simply that apparently we live in a world where any media must be able to entertain everyone, and quality-wise is either a 0 or a 10 for many people.
To be fair, I think the game is heavily oriented (at a fault) towards people who have played the first, or at least are fairly familiar with the story. The emotional impact that death is supposed to have just can't be realistically expected from what little you know about the characters from this game alone. So the "meta" goals the writing has can't really work much. I believe this is why the game is very specifically titled "Part 2", it's supposed to be experienced as a direct continuation of the original's story.
The gameplay discrepancy with the story is definitely another big flaw with the game, I think, and a very valid complaint. I do think it was somewhat expected, since an issue present in any Naughty Dog game, but it's particularly bad in this game because of the theme.
"but I was too vengeful to leave anything standing". Overall what I'm saying is that this, in my humble opinion, is part of the problem that caused you to not like the story very much. In my eyes the story is not supposed to be about Ellie seeking revenge, but about Ellie dealing with Joel's death, and various stages of grief and the general feeling of purposelessness and her survivor's guilt. The ending of the game is not supposed to be about Ellie "forgiving" Abby, but about forgiving Joel, and coming to terms with the fact that he's gone and she'll never have the opportunity to mend their relationship anymore, no matter what happens to Abby