Pelagos is horrifying, not empowering

[VinceVega]

Goodness, not sure why I have to state the obvious. This conversation obviously stopped being about the game the moment the first reply made it about trans issues. That's why I'm here instead of lurking, because this is a discussion beyond the game already; get your head out of the sand.

If no one was offended, Blizzard wouldn't have changed anything. People obviously made a big deal about it; Twitter probably.



At some point we need to figure out that "offensive" can't be endlessly subjective or else everything can be subject to the "This is offensive!" hammer and nothing is left untouched. The world is being shaped by loud mouthed morons.

Opinion. From my perspective the loud mouthed morons are the ones thinking they can't say anything anymore when in fact they can. Just that bashing on minorities is not ignored anymore and people will talk back. Blizz changed that maybe preemtivly just cause it fits better.

There is a difference between beeing offensive (jimmy carr) and just being an asshole because you hate some people (antiSJW crowd)

No one is cancelling comedians for jokes. If you go the extra mile and use the n word bash on trans poeple (who are under constant ridicule by society anyway) that expect people not beeing happy.
Why should i just roll over and accept your insults? Being offended is human. Just like you are offended about people not liking the way they are treated.

[Wilfire]

This was about trans issues when the op started an incoherent rant about the one trans character being added to the game, just because they're not shouting about the character being trans they're clearly using the idea of a trans person being happy in their afterlife as fear mongering and it's so fucking tiring to deal with transphoiba in this community like trans people are a tiny group of people so why do y'all care so fucking much about their existince or inclusion in games

Also it's not the "evil she's forcing their narratives" it's cuz it's an ezpz storyline to tell in the bastion plot devices like blizzard has been working on adding more lgbt representation for years now and having one minor reference to one character having trans feelings is not forcing any ideaology on you, even tho it would make the game and community 100000% better if blizzard started being heavy handed with hate speech bans

They're NOT happy though. The brainwashing rituals are the entire reason the Forsworn exist and the quests want you to emphasize with the Forsworn. Pelagos is a terrifying edge case where Kyrians are a little too successful with their brainwashing. There's a reason Pelagos is one of the first Kyrians you are introduced to and he is all super happy and stuff - you are supposed to start feeling uneasy once you discover what Kyrian cleansing rituals entail and how Pelagos came to be what he is.

I'm going to take this on good faith for a moment.

So basically, this guy was highly vocal when they made a Blue post about it. He's not genuinely talking about the game, he's concern trolling to stoke the fires of an issue that's inextricably about the community being up in arms at a trans character (with a side-helping of semi-legitimate grievances about it being pandering by Blizzard rather than earnest).

That's why the topic deviated - he's just finding a new way to bitch about it under the guise of an "innocent" thread to dredge it up again.

Again, I am informing you because I am taking it on good faith that you're legitimately not aware. But. They are.

If Pelagos was happily delivering souls to be judged and assigned to one of possible hells because Kyrians let him be a blue dragon I'd still be making this thread. Kyrians as a whole are more unsettling than the obvious torture afterlives of the Maw, Maldraxxus and Revendreth. The only reason you think this thread is about trans people is because you can't take your agenda-colored goggles off.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Is this what WoW lore is now? Yikes! I'm glad i jumped ship years ago...

[Super Kami Dende]

Again, you're all just upset that you have to acknowledge us trans people exist. We're real people.

Don't worry, we get you guys exist. Most People just question why we have to care anymore than anyone else also existing.

[Dalheim]

They're NOT happy though. The brainwashing rituals are the entire reason the Forsworn exist and the quests want you to emphasize with the Forsworn. Pelagos is a terrifying edge case where Kyrians are a little too successful with their brainwashing. There's a reason Pelagos is one of the first Kyrians you are introduced to and he is all super happy and stuff - you are supposed to start feeling uneasy once you discover what Kyrian cleansing rituals entail and how Pelagos came to be what he is.

So you think the brainwashing made him want to be male instead of a female?

Don't worry, we get you guys exist. Most People just question why we have to care anymore than anyone else also existing.

Pretty much, I've never cared if someone is an LGBTQ+, unless they're being a fucking twat about it.

[Devonitar]

I, for one, wonder why would an afterlife race that is created solely to carry on a specific afterlife duty even need genders.

[Dalheim]

I, for one, wonder why would an afterlife race that is created solely to carry on a specific afterlife duty even need genders.

Afterlife Snu-Snu?

[Verdugo]

I, for one, wonder why would an afterlife race that is created solely to carry on a specific afterlife duty even need genders.

Because Blizzard has to slap tits on everything even hinted at being female.

[matrix123mko]

Is nothing sacred anymore? What's next, trump hate quests?

Gallywix was deposed already.

- - - Updated - - -

Trolls became that way because Elune made them that way.

This is the night elf perspective. The truth is that arcane magic made them elves.

- - - Updated - - -

I like how 1st try on trans in-game is fragile and emotionally unstable being. Like trying to say being trans is mental illness. WP blizz

How would you write him/her instead?

[Wilfire]

So you think the brainwashing made him want to be male instead of a female?

It's more nuanced than that. The brainwashing completely severed Pelagos from his old life. It doesn't matter if he chose to became a blue man, a blue dragon, a blue demon, a blue tree or anything else. What matters is that Kyrians induced complete ego death in him and people are for some reason treating it as a good thing.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's more nuanced than that. The brainwashing completely severed Pelagos from his old life. It doesn't matter if he chose to became a blue man, a blue dragon, a blue demon, a blue tree or anything else. What matters is that Kyrians induced complete ego death in him and people are for some reason treating it as a good thing.

I thought the whole thing of the Kyrians was they were clean slate souls. Meaning it wasn't his choice to be a "male" Pelagos, it's just pure chance what he rolled for his reincarnation.

[Vakir]

If Pelagos was happily delivering souls to be judged and assigned to one of possible hells because Kyrians let him be a blue dragon I'd still be making this thread. Kyrians as a whole are more unsettling than the obvious torture afterlives of the Maw, Maldraxxus and Revendreth. The only reason you think this thread is about trans people is because you can't take your agenda-colored goggles off.

So it's purely coincidental that you were pissed off and inflammatory in the other thread, and you're putting a big focus on it being "horrifying and not empowering"...even though pretty much every single afterlife variation we come across sucks in one way another, hence the nature of conflict to do things in those zones for the purposes of an MMO.

Like, who said something has to be empowering to exist? Hence why the same character is uncertain about certain things later. Conflict is the nature of a game. Otherwise, we wouldn't have something like the Forsworn.

[matrix123mko]

It doesn't matter if they are man or woman. Skin color, religion, politic parties... Everyone's different

The trick is to hate everybody equally

I think the justice is when you insult everyone equally. It gives you more breathing space than not insulting anyone.

[Dalheim]

It's more nuanced than that. The brainwashing completely severed Pelagos from his old life. It doesn't matter if he chose to became a blue man, a blue dragon, a blue demon, a blue tree or anything else. What matters is that Kyrians induced complete ego death in him and people are for some reason treating it as a good thing.

I thought they were happy that they changed the pronouns from ''they/their'' to ''he/she'', and thus made Pelagos a trans (or whatever).

Didn't know people cared about the Kyrian story part.

I thought the whole thing of the Kyrians was they were clean slate souls. Meaning it wasn't his choice to be a "male" Pelagos, it's just pure chance what he rolled for his reincarnation.

I assumed they kept their old genders, but their memories and all that got wiped.

[matrix123mko]

No oblivion is the obviously better choice then an eternity of torture if those are the only choices and only a fool would think other wise.

But given that you are just making shit up and thinking people will believe it’s real lore I guess that answers why you think it is scary.

Is Maw really a torture? I don't think so.

[Devilyaki]

I would ask to be a cat girl.

[SirPaper]

An afterlife that changes who you are, completely? Can I be happy in this afterlife?
If so, sign me the f*** up.

[Apology]

I don't think anyone is denying your reality. I just don't think your reality is the reality of a woman or a man; but a transwoman/transman.

With that said, I'm out. Discussions around this always turn into scream fests and who has the most free time to continue banging their head because there's no such thing as rationality in a discussion centered around feelings.

And what point do you think you're making? That my experiences as a trans woman are different to that of a cis woman? No shit they're different. No one said they weren't. Its also irrelevant to the discussion.

Again. Minor character who happens to be trans, and the internet just loses it's shit. It's no big deal, it's not a political statement, it's not being woke or whatever the fuck, its a character that happens to be trans. Which is a real thing that people experience. The only reason this is a big deal is because it's putting a face to the minority that people like to hate on. Again, you just don't want to acknowledge we exist, because our existence offends you on a fundamental level. Pelagos isnt hurting anyone. Grow up.

[Vakir]

Is Maw really a torture? I don't think so.

Explain.

Skoldus Hall

Warden Skoldus oversees this wing of Torghast. He is a cruel warden who uses rats, dogs, and other beasts to torment his quarry.

Fracture Chambers

Prisoners from Maldraxxus are held here, their bones broken over and over again. With the player's help, they escape their cells and assault their captors.

Unless you're Bob Flanagan, please, tell me more.

[Pury]

I've seen conversations about Kyrian being secretly the most evil out of all covenants a long time a go.
It was about some NPC, I think Tauren, who was stripped completely of his personality, memories and turned into a blue human.
Now Blizzard decided to put some modern days political agenda into it. It may not work out the way they want.
Not to mention media/art with current trend propaganda in it never ages well.
Don't shoot your future in the foot for a tiny gain right now, maybe? No? Okay.