Pelagos is horrifying, not empowering

[Thage]

It being an ism would probably be more fitting then calling it a phobia though.

Transism?

Sort of. As an example racism in itself is really most often rooted in a phobia, exacerbated and cranked up to 11 through external aggravating factors and radicalization. Homo/transphobia exists in similar lines--before it approaches -ism levels, it's usually an irrational aversion that goes unaddressed and aggrivates into a radical viewpoint.

[ClassicPeon]

Do you not understand English - you'd be okay calling someone he/she but not they? How does that even compute in your head?

As for the deer thing, why am I not surprised you'd belittle the topic with cringe level jokes

Because they are completely different things. He/she are the words we used to adress singular people with - they are used to adress a plural amount of people.

As i said - my problem is with people who think they have the right to change or make up new words to suit their needs to be special.

Every single post you make is ad hominem. Ad hominem is what people jump to when they have difficulty arguing their case.

The deer thing is a nod towards the twitch(board girl or whatever she was part of) who literally identifies as a deer. I thought that was common knowledge on these forums

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Sort of. As an example racism in itself is really most often rooted in a phobia, exacerbated and cranked up to 11 through external aggravating factors and radicalization. Homo/transphobia exists in similar lines--before it approaches -ism levels, it's usually an irrational aversion that goes unaddressed and aggrivates into a radical viewpoint.

I agree that racism can be rooted in fear(mostly because of the media) but i dont think thats the case for transphobia. Do you? I think disgust/hate/intolerance is probably closer to the root here.

[kappalol]

It's interesting you mention that, let's unpack it - why do we think trans people have higher suicide rates (though those rates are falling) - for you, clearly calling them crazy is all you need, which is fair enough - some people are lazy in their thinking and evil in their convictions, let's actually think about it

- Bullying = This thread alone is example enough of the level of vitriol transfolk face in 2020, and this is some half-dead gaming forum, imagine what it's like on bigger platforms, especially ones that don't moderate to the extent this site does, then you have actual real life bullying - which also happens

- Lack of home = Transpeople, like other LGBT, are disproportionately homeless from parents/family not accepting them

- Not being able to get treatment = Not every country offers transition/ hormone therapies, and ones that do it often it's something anyone can afford/ recieve, so that leaves people stuck in a body they don't feel is them

I like how you cite the suicide thing as proof they're crazy, when all it's proof of is how abhorrant viewpoints like yours are

- Bullying - yes because thinking being a different gender than you are is crazy so ofc you are bullied.

- Lack of Home - Yes parents don't want to accept their child twisted thinking of being a different gender and want him/her to quit screwing around with this crap and start to act like normal human being.

- Treatment - Suicidal rates are about the same after as before transition making it a waste of time and money because why? Because its a nonsense.

[Raetary]

Because they are completely different things. He/she are the words we used to adress singular people with - they are used to adress a plural amount of people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-...singular-they/
https://www.academicwritingsuccess.c...singular-they/

The usage of the singular they is dated back to the 1300s.

[Sondrelk]

- Bullying - yes because thinking being a different gender than you are is crazy so ofc you are bullied.

- Lack of Home - Yes parents don't want to accept their child twisted thinking of being a different gender and want him/her to quit screwing around with this crap and start to act like normal human being.

- Treatment - Suicidal rates are about the same after as before transition making it a waste of time and money because why? Because its a nonsense.

Now change Trans in these sentences to Chronic Depression, or PTSD and see how reasonable your arguments really are.

[Dalinos]

They are allowed that. But similarly other people are free to find your thoughts on the matter something they disapprove of. And when enouh people agree that said thoughts are not reasonable to have in conversation with others we can say that a shift has happened in society. Similarly to when it no longer became acceptable to have loud outspoken beliefs on the flogging of slaves as an acceptable form of conduct. Or when announcing that you prefer to shit behind the curtains became a preeminent social faux-pas.

Free speech does not just mean that you can say whatever without consequence, because it is similarly the prerogative of others to use their own free spech to condemn yours.

You missed my point mate. This has nothing to do with if it's right or wrong - that's another discussion. It has to do with labelling "aversion/repulsion/disgust" of 2 subsets of people a "phobia", in "Transphobia" and "Homophobia", but not calling aversion/repulsion/disgust of OTHER subsets of people phobias. There's no Hooliganophobia, there's no Lawyerophobia etc etc.

You missed the part where all these words come from my native language, Greek. You also probably missed the part that the first Lesbians in the WORLD originated from...well, the island of Lesbos (Λέσβος). In Greece. It's why they're called LESBians. Like ATHENian, CORINTHian, from Athens and Corinth, we have LESBian, from Lesbos. We also had the Sacred Legion of Thebes (Ιερός Λόχος Θηβών) - a mighty military unit that was composed of 150 couples of gay men, with the logic being that only when a man is fighting side-by-side with his loved one will he bring out his ultimate potential. Ancient Greece is the ancient capital of all LGBT people mah dude, protected by the goddess of love, Aphrodite, who revered ALL kinds of love as sacred, whether it was from a man to a man, a man to a woman or a woman to a woman. And you most certainly wanted Aunty Aphrodite on your side - persecuting ANY type of couple that was in love was considered a massive disrespect and dishonour to the goddess, and her wrath was furious.

Please, try again to insinuate I'm against LGBT rights when all I'm doing is arguing linguistics. Go ahead.

[ClassicPeon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-...singular-they/
https://www.academicwritingsuccess.c...singular-they/

The usage of the singular they is dated back to the 1300s.

Even the article itself is aware that its not common language. The part he is refering to is in a fictional book. I'm not sure if you are trying to convince me or if you are with me.

[kappalol]

Now change Trans in these sentences to Chronic Depression, or PTSD and see how reasonable your arguments really are.

=If you have PTSD or depressions you need a Therapist and not medical operation. the same as being trans.

[Sondrelk]

You missed my point mate. This has nothing to do with if it's right or wrong - that's another discussion. It has to do with labelling "aversion/repulsion/disgust" of 2 subsets of people a "phobia", in "Transphobia" and "Homophobia", but not calling aversion/repulsion/disgust of OTHER subsets of people phobias. There's no Hooliganophobia, there's no Lawyerophobia etc etc.

You missed the part where all these words come from my native language, Greek. You also probably missed the part that the first Lesbians in the WORLD originated from...well, the island of Lesbos. In Greece. It's why they're called LESBians. Like ATHENian, CORINTHian, from Athens and Corinth, we have LESBian, from Lesbos. We also had the Sacred Legion of Thebes - a mighty military unit that was composed of 150 couples of gay men, with the logic being that only when a man is fighting side-by-side with his loved one will he bring out his ultimate potential. Ancient Greece is the ancient capital of all LGBT people mah dude, protected by the goddess of love, Aphrodite, who revered ALL kind of love as sacred, whether it was from a man to a man, a man to a woman or a woman to a woman.

Please, try again to insinuate I'm against LGBT rights when all I'm doing is arguing linguistics. Go ahead.

I already wrote a substantial reply on that further above here.
The point is that language is in constant flux, and what is technically true is notthe same as what common parlance finds to be true.

Yes, it is absolutely true that Transphobia referring to people with an aversion to it is strictlywrong when considering the literal meaning of the words, or rather what the words would be referring to when looked at separately an objectively.
But it is also wrong to refer to telekinetic abilities as strictly being someone who moves stuff with their mind, and that doesnt stop people from using it that way.

Yes, I agree it is wrong to use it that way, but here we are, using it that way anyways. Just the same as it is plainly wrong to say "lol" when replying to something mildly amusing, or thinking that blood being thicker than water originally was written to espouse the wonders of having a biological family.

[Thage]

I agree that racism can be rooted in fear(mostly because of the media) but i dont think thats the case for transphobia. Do you? I think disgust/hate/intolerance is probably closer to the root here.

Fear of the unknown can manifest in all kinds of weird ways. Also important to note that phobias can manifest as hate/disgust/intolerance. Ask a severe arachnophobe their opinion of spiders and they'll probably be of the opinion that spiders ought to be wiped out. The brain is a complicated organism that likes patterns and predictability, things that break the pattern cause it to react poorly.

edit: Quick addendum to add, 'they' is recognized as an ambiguous singular pronoun, and used often especially in novels in order to describe someone without giving away key details (for example, if the villain in a murder mystery is a woman, but the prime suspect is a man, a handy narrative trick is to describe the villain in ambiguous terms including 'they' in order to make it harder for the reader to figure out).

[Sondrelk]

=If you have PTSD or depressions you need a Therapist and not medical operation. the same as being trans.

If you have PTSD and/or Depression you need treatment. This treatment could be limited to talks with a therapist, or it could be more invasive stuff like antidepressants.
Similarly someone with gender dysphoria could require full-on gender reassignment surgery, but they could also just need validation that crossdressing is okay, or even something as simple as having their friends and loved ones call them by a different gender.

The point is that if you find that being Trans is a mental problem then it is cruel to assume that it is oka for their peers to bully them over it, and worse still for their families to refuse to deal with it, especially when it could lead to suicide.

[ClassicPeon]

they
/ðeɪ/
Learn to pronounce
pronoun
1.
used to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified.
"the two men could get life sentences if they are convicted"
2.
used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.
"ask a friend if they could help


Literally one simply google before you replied would've proven you wrong

And nothing I've said is ad hominem, I don't think you really know what ad hominem means if you really think I'm guilty of it - I haven't said anything about your character have I?

I am aware of the twitch thing, it's a shit joke, she doesn't identify as a deer - and I will certainly use my right of free expression to call a cringe joke cringe

I'm well aware that the brittish are sadly bowing down to this. Luckily its not happening in every country though.


You have attacked my character several tiems straight from the first interaction i had with you in this conversation. I guess its such 2nd nature to you that you dont even take notice of it anymore.

I'm pretty sure the twitch thing isnt a joke. Not sure where you got that from.

[Syegfryed]

i think people are missing the point here that this change is, apparently, more caused due to the Kyrian form of brainwash and/or messing with your head when you died, rather than him choosing something, at his own accord, just showing how awful the Kyrian afterlife truly is

We don't even know the individual before died, don't know how things were, how he felt his life, and this is just some sort of thing he decided on the spot, for whatever reasons(i don't think we do yet)

Maybe this is just blizzard trying to ride in the wave of the pride month, and did a poor job, who knows, what i know is Kyrian afterlife seem to be one of the worst and if the dude chose with his own accord, without the Kyrian intervention good for him, i always though of gender trade feature in the shop something "canon" for players with all the magic the world have

[ClassicPeon]

Fear of the unknown can manifest in all kinds of weird ways. Also important to note that phobias can manifest as hate/disgust/intolerance. Ask a severe arachnophobe their opinion of spiders and they'll probably be of the opinion that spiders ought to be wiped out. The brain is a complicated organism that likes patterns and predictability, things that break the pattern cause it to react poorly.

edit: Quick addendum to add, 'they' is recognized as an ambiguous singular pronoun, and used often especially in novels in order to describe someone without giving away key details (for example, if the villain in a murder mystery is a woman, but the prime suspect is a man, a handy narrative trick is to describe the villain in ambiguous terms including 'they' in order to make it harder for the reader to figure out).

Describing a person and adressing a person isnt the same thing though. The context does matter. Saying "They is eating icecream" is an improper constructed sentence becayse in this case, they would be refering to multiple people and as such it would be "they are eating icecream"

[Quaade]

My kids are already good people. I dont impose my ideologies on them but i do try to teach them right from wrong.

Which is literally imposing your own ideologies about what's right or wrong on them.

[Thage]

Describing a person and adressing a person isnt the same thing though. The context does matter. Saying "They is eating icecream" is an improper constructed sentence becayse in this case, they would be refering to multiple people and as such it would be "they are eating icecream"

Well, in both cases 'they are' would be the proper grammar whether you're using it singularly or collectively. 'They' is a context-sensitive word like 'read:' as an example, nobody would say "I am reading (pronounced red-ing) a book" using the past-tense pronunciation, you would understand "I am reading a book" uses the present tense through context. Similarly, "They are standing at the bus stop, alone at night and worried someone may spot the blood on their left glove," context provides clues this is a singular person.

Using it in address isn't that strange, either, especially in the digital age where I have no idea what gender the person on the other side of the screen is--while it's common to default to male, defaulting to ambiguous descriptions is often considered more polite and people will correct you if it's a big-enough deal to them.

[ClassicPeon]

In every civilised country, yes it is happening.

Please quote the times I've attacked your character, or keep lying - but going by what you've said so far you seem to be comfortable with that (and no that's not a character attack, calling someone who has lied a liar is not ad hominem)

In every civilised country, yes it is happening.

i disagree obviously

Please quote the times I've attacked your character, or keep lying - but going by what you've said so far you seem to be comfortable with that (and no that's not a character attack, calling someone who has lied a liar is not ad hominem)

Another striking example of how you know exactly 0 about anything scientific

Local crazy person

What's it like to be both morally bereft and a coward?

Do you not understand English

How does that even compute in your head?

As for the deer thing, why am I not surprised you'd belittle the topic with cringe level jokes

Varying degree of severity obviously. All of the mad hominem though. I dont mind explaining them if you are going to act like they arent

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Which is literally imposing your own ideologies about what's right or wrong on them.

right/wrong is implied to be the society's general moral codex. Not my own personal views on everything.

Be respectful/think for yourself

As opposed to:

Pinapple on pizza fucking sucks - dont eat it.

[VinceVega]

Describing a person and adressing a person isnt the same thing though. The context does matter. Saying "They is eating icecream" is an improper constructed sentence becayse in this case, they would be refering to multiple people and as such it would be "they are eating icecream"

We have in german a similar thing where a singular person can be adressed with the plural version. But that is normally reserved for kings and such. Very old speak so to say.

But to the whole they/them thing. This is just a problem in the english language normally. Is it weird? Yeah a bit. Does it somehow impose incredible difficult restrictions on you to use it? Also no. An to be fair most of us will probably never meet anyone who wants to be adressed that way. Most Trans poeple are fine as long as you use he/she whatever they identify as. And that really is not a problem.

[Quaade]

I 100% accept this. I'm not saying people dont have a right to feel the way they do. Some people think there are 42 genders. Some people think there are unlimited amount of genders. I think there are 2. I dont judge people who dont fall under my belief.

You literally used gender instead of sex. Also, you use a lot of negative explanations. Not and associated words have no opposite. Good is opposite to bad (depending on context), rich is opposite to poor. That opposition gives them meaning and we can only interpret the meaning of things based on the opposite value. "Don't have no opposite and is in the average subconscious mind non-existent, including yourself. So you might as well say: I judge people who fall under my belief.

[Aucald]

"Gender Issues" threads are not permitted topics, and the original news post already devolved into a toxic stew. Closing this.