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  1. #21
    seems like a great thing, but I'm incredibly sceptical of our governments ability to actually pull it off. I suspect it's more a case of someone advising boris that some good publicity would help distract from the arguments over "one metre plus", state of the economy and threats to fine parents

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    so you would there for also be happy to see it basically de-populated? i mean, if you take 3 million people out of a city of only 7.... that's a big ass hit to that city's economy and ability to function.
    Helping the Hongkongers or damaging china's access to that dirty dirty black money are kind of separate to my point. As is ol' uncle winnie not honouring china's agreement about hong kong's status.

    I was merely observing that hong kong effectively functions some sort of post-Randian cyberpunk hellscape faciliatting the flow of and laundering the sickest dirtiest money on earth which has unjustly enriched a great many billionaires and lead to the institution of a pseudo slave class.

    You know as opposed to the rhetoric of the poster in question implying Hongkongers are the 'good' kind of immigrant (and all the baggage that comes with that discourse).
    Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2020-07-02 at 03:24 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Judging by the past few months and years, nope, they fuck this up royally and haven't thought this through at all.

    "We're in the midst of a housing crisis, a pandemic, and are going to lose most if not all of our trade deals, any ideas?"

    "How about we make it easier for people to live here?"

    "That, that, that does nothing for our problems."

    "I know, so, what do you think?"

    "Yeah, let's do this first and worry about our problems later."

    "Brilliant."
    Unfortunately crisis and problems don't like comming lne at a time like a video game or story. We do have all those problems but we do also have an obligation to the people of Hong Kong, like it or not we forced those people against the majority will under China with the promise that we would defend there freedoms under the agreed deal, China has torn that up so we must make bold actions to help them, and that's not gonna wait till its convenient for us.

    I think any one with at least half a functioning brain knows the sin-British joint declaration was just putting off a problem for the next generation to solve, kind of the Mo for the people in power in the 80s at this point tbh but now the time has come and we need to decide, are we nation that keeps it's promises and obligations or are we one that stands by whilst people who were are citizens that we forced under China in the name of avoiding a diplomatic headache 3 decades ago are opressed in the very litteraly old sense of the term.

    We are responsible for this, we all knew this would happen eventually, but we decided to capitulate to communist china's demand to be seen as the successor of imperial China and thus should get Hong Kong over Taiwan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    If all of the bankers leave, the China is fucked pretty much as they cant launder money any more via Hong Kong.

    China currency is wortless in rest of the world. You are not allowed to use it to buy any housing, land, businesses or anything else of economic value with yuan.

    Well if every person from Hong Kong leaves and burns down the city after, its defeat for China.
    Worst case scenario now for China is Hong Kong becomes the detroit of China in 5 years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Hong Kong has slid from no. 18 in the World Press Freedom Index in 2002 to no. 80 in 2020.

    The UK's role in the world changed hugely from 1945 onwards following decolonisation and the decline of the British Empire.

    Yes, it's right to criticise the British for our actions in the mid 20th C but, no, Hong Kongers have less freedoms now, post the new security law, than they did in 1997 pre handover.

    In short: attempting to justify modern day Chinese repression on the basis of behaviour by the British, 60 years ago, is disingenuous.
    There just a China shill, they will defend anything China does simply because it stands opposed to the west, and justify it by pointing to things the west did, even thing that they did generations ago, there whole thought process and alliance is built on dishonesty.

    There the kind of person that even if you attacked them from a Marxist position they would argue winnie the poo is the true communist.

    Tovthem China is a shining example of a far-left, communist state, and the concentration camps, excessive money laundering, massively rich upper political class, oppression of the people and workers as well as there hyper focus on military power and projection are just lies of the west.... And even if true calling them out is us having double standards.... Almost like they forget we also called out our own bad acting sovthe only double standard would be giving them a pass...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The UK, itself planning to become a tax haven post Brexit, is looking to import millions of people from the main money laundering center of the Triads and really of most criminals in Southeast Asia. What could possibly go wrong.
    lol... c'mon... at least Boris is trying to do the right thing, no? This is what's surprising: that the initiative is being taken by a government stuffed full of politicians renowned for their anti-immigration views.

    I've spent the last couple of years arguing from a pro-immigration viewpoint, I'm not going to change now on that basis that 0.000x% of 3m Hong Kongers may be Triads.

    This initiative is the right course of action to take and could be beneficial for those whose liberties are actively being stripped by the Chinese who are in flagrant breach of the 'one country, two systems' principle outlined in the Sino-British Joint Declaration.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    lol... c'mon... at least Boris is trying to do the right thing, no? This is what's surprising: that the initiative is being taken by a government stuffed full of politicians renowned for their anti-immigration views.

    I've spent the last couple of years arguing from a pro-immigration viewpoint, I'm not going to change now on that basis that 0.000x% of 3m Hong Kongers may be Triads.

    This initiative is the right course of action to take and could be beneficial for those whose liberties are actively being stripped by the Chinese who are in flagrant breach of the 'one country, two systems' principle outlined in the Sino-British Joint Declaration.
    opposition for the sake of opposition is a complete cancer in modern politics.

  6. #26
    It's the right thing to do and credit where credit is due to Johnson for his swift action but I fear this will turn out to be an empty gesture as China will not allow Hong Kong residents to leave for the UK.

  7. #27
    Jolly good idea, I'd take Hongkongers anytime if I had a say in immigration policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Chinese cities such as Shenzen can't disagree with the Chinese government because the top leaders of the city are also a part of the one-party government(well paid yes-men). What they do is silence dissent at the level of 'individuals' which means they never need to silence dissent at the level of cities or provinces. By "silence" I mean they make them disappear.
    I've been in Shenzhen (and Guangzhou) a number of times and the people I hanged with weren't particularly shy of badmouthing the government. Granted, that was in clubs and not official work environments, but it wasn't a DDR-like climate. Of course no city in mainland China gets to "disagree" with the government, and I do not doubt that the Chinese government disappears people, but from the inside, the situation didn't seem dire. The locals I interacted with didn't perceive it as such at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    What surprises me is how brainwashed people are.

    HK gets law that every single other country has? China bad!!!! Meanwhile every single country that whines about China already has the same law.
    Please, do elaborate. I'm particularly curious about how every single country has the same laws (and enforces them in the same way, presumably) as China does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    What surprises me is how brainwashed people are.

    HK gets law that every single other country has? China bad!!!! Meanwhile every single country that whines about China already has the same law.

    Russia interfering in western countries? Russia bad!!!! US/UK interfering in China's business and China trying to stop them? China bad!!!! Because US/UK are above the law, they have right to interfere wherever they want, right?

    It is double standards from UK to whine about anything. HK didn't even have basic freedom of press when it was under UK control, everything published was required to be approved by the Brits. Now they suddenly whine about great HK freedoms when they themselves denied same freedoms to HK population for a century?

    US/UK and their puppets in HK are the bad guys here, not China.
    China made a treaty with the UK. Their actions are violating the terms of that agreement and so the UK is offering affected former subjects the option to emigrate to the UK with a pathway to become citizens.

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    lol... c'mon... at least Boris is trying to do the right thing, no? This is what's surprising: that the initiative is being taken by a government stuffed full of politicians renowned for their anti-immigration views.

    I've spent the last couple of years arguing from a pro-immigration viewpoint, I'm not going to change now on that basis that 0.000x% of 3m Hong Kongers may be Triads.

    This initiative is the right course of action to take and could be beneficial for those whose liberties are actively being stripped by the Chinese who are in flagrant breach of the 'one country, two systems' principle outlined in the Sino-British Joint Declaration.
    Is it enacted already or could it be used as a bargaining chip for a UK-Chinese trade agreement? I am a bit reserved in believing Boris would actually do the right thing, for once.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Is it enacted already or could it be used as a bargaining chip for a UK-Chinese trade agreement? I am a bit reserved in believing Boris would actually do the right thing, for once.
    You know what... that didn't even cross my mind and I'm a pessimist! Umm... not sure:

    Updating MPs on the details, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said there would be no limit on numbers or quotas and the application process would be simple.

    "This is a special, bespoke, set of arrangements developed for the unique circumstances we face and in light of our historic commitment to the people of Hong Kong," he said.

    Speaking to ITV's Peston programme, Mr Raab acknowledged there "would be little we could do to…cohesively force" China to allow British Overseas Nationals to come to the UK.

    Downing Street said further details of the scheme will be detailed "in due course".

    In the meantime, British National Overseas Passport holders in Hong Kong will be able to travel to the UK immediately, subject to standard immigration checks, the prime minister's official spokesman said.


    Depends if due course = Soon™ ?

    But no, the way the political winds are blowing I don't see the current administration bending over for the Chinese in the way the will do for the Americans.

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I've been in Shenzhen (and Guangzhou) a number of times and the people I hanged with weren't particularly shy of badmouthing the government. Granted, that was in clubs and not official work environments, but it wasn't a DDR-like climate. Of course no city in mainland China gets to "disagree" with the government, and I do not doubt that the Chinese government disappears people, but from the inside, the situation didn't seem dire. The locals I interacted with didn't perceive it as such at least.
    Right so the way it works is that the Chinese government's likelihood of punishing a citizen for disagreeing with the government is proportional to the size of their audience. If you're a nobody with a small audience they don't really enforce speech policy because it's not practical to do so.
    Last edited by PC2; 2020-07-02 at 05:42 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Brexiters are going to be so pissed that they're replacing EU immigrants with HK immigrants. It's kinda hilarious from my PoV though.
    Hong Kong immigrants will tend to be highly educated. Most of the protesters are university students or graduates. On top of that, Britain and Australia are not the only countries trying to attract immigrants from Hong Kong.

    Hong Kong bankers get courted by Taiwan after security law

    Taiwan grants residency to Hongkongers for an investment of as little as NT$6 million ($200,000), less than half the NT$15 million needed for nationals from other countries.

    Japan looks to lure Hong Kong’s finance workers following security law

    Singapore & Malaysia are also making it easier for HK immigrants. If the US is smart, they would be doing the same. There are a lot of top-notch talents to be nabbed.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2020-07-02 at 06:26 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    Great move. Hell, the US should offer them refuge as well.

    Millions of highly educated/skilled, hard working, well-to-do, anti-communists... Any country would be lucky to have them.
    but but they will take oooourrrr juuubbbssss.

    Then trump would have to build a wall in the ocean!!
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  14. #34
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    I have very mixed feelings on this.

    In truth, I don't think it's a very GOOD idea. I don't see the UK being capable of taking an influx of that size at this point in time, and while it may be unlikely for the entire group to accept the offer, it's kinda a bad faith offer if it was made with the assumption that it would be turned down mostly. And for all that people can say "Oh, these are the good kind of immigrants, well educated!" you can't make a society of all bankers and no workers even IF your ultimate goal is to be an international tax shelter and money laundering hub.

    That all being said, I think it's a NECESSARY idea. Even if delivering on it would be difficult for the UK, promises were made, and it is the correct moral and ethical stance for the country to take. No matter what I think of the current UK government and all the craziness that has come from Brexit, I'm really hoping (and expecting!) that we support the UK in this and help ensure that it goes as smoothly as possible.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynarii View Post
    I have very mixed feelings on this.

    In truth, I don't think it's a very GOOD idea. I don't see the UK being capable of taking an influx of that size at this point in time, and while it may be unlikely for the entire group to accept the offer, it's kinda a bad faith offer if it was made with the assumption that it would be turned down mostly. And for all that people can say "Oh, these are the good kind of immigrants, well educated!" you can't make a society of all bankers and no workers even IF your ultimate goal is to be an international tax shelter and money laundering hub.

    That all being said, I think it's a NECESSARY idea. Even if delivering on it would be difficult for the UK, promises were made, and it is the correct moral and ethical stance for the country to take. No matter what I think of the current UK government and all the craziness that has come from Brexit, I'm really hoping (and expecting!) that we support the UK in this and help ensure that it goes as smoothly as possible.
    I don't think Britain will need to accept all 3M HK immigrants. Most HKengrs would prefer to go to Taiwan, Singapore, Australia, Canada, and then Britain & New Zealand. In that order. The US would be ahead of Britain on that list if the Country is still open to immigrants.

  16. #36
    Banned Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Wouldn't these people be more comfortable in Taiwan though? (assuming they actually are into this emigration idea)

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Wouldn't these people be more comfortable in Taiwan though? (assuming they actually are into this emigration idea)
    From the Japan Times article that I linked previously.

    Taiwan saw a record pace of immigration and investment from Hong Kong in 2019, a trend that has continued this year. The number of Hongkongers settling in Taiwan between January and May rose 96 percent versus the same period last year, while the number of investments — mostly small-dollar amounts by individuals — climbed 25 percent. Taiwan grants residency to Hongkongers for an investment of as little as NT$6 million ($200,000), less than half the NT$15 million needed for nationals from other countries.

    The influx has been welcome news for Taiwan employers. More than 75 percent of local businesses encountered difficulties finding staff with the requisite skills in 2019, up from 45 percent in 2014, according to a survey conducted by Manpower Group that placed Taiwan alongside Japan as one of the economies with the most severe talent shortages.

    One of Taiwan’s biggest economic challenges is its rapidly declining birthrate, according to Chen Chih-jou, a sociology professor at Academia Sinica. He said the government should amend its laws to allow Hong Kong students studying in Taiwan to stay on after graduation and find work.
    The biggest problem would be salary and tax rate. University graduates make less in Taiwan than In Hong Kong. Also, tax. Tax is capped at 17% in Hong Kong while in Taiwan the highest bracket is 40%. Given the chance, I think most of them would prefer to go to the US with its more freewheeling economy which is closer to how it was in Hong Kong.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2020-07-02 at 10:13 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Wouldn't these people be more comfortable in Taiwan though? (assuming they actually are into this emigration idea)
    Yes, but also no.
    Lately China has not been exactly nice with Taiwan. Status quo with belligerent China cannot last forever, something is gonna happen. Just a question of time, if the overall political situation of the world does not change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  19. #39
    Banned Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    That's kinda like leaving a burning house to go wait it out next door.
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Yes, but also no.
    Lately China has not been exactly nice with Taiwan. Status quo with belligerent China cannot last forever, something is gonna happen. Just a question of time, if the overall political situation of the world does not change.
    If the us would push too hard to the point where China would have to abandon its Belt and Road initiative they might have to revive the East Asian co-posperity sphere initiative, but not until they are absolutely cornered

  20. #40
    For all those who think "Hong Kong people will be the *welcome* type of immigrants" in Great Britain are fooling themselves. I'm natively Indian (though I've lived in the U.S. for more than 35 years at this point), and most of my family who has left India has gone to England. Indians and South Asians also tend to be very highly educated, and yet my cousins have consistently, their whole lives, been pursued with cries of "Paki!" and worse throughout all of jolly ole England. Despite curries now somehow being the "national food" of England, Indians and Pakistanis have suffered a great deal as immigrants to England. Only now, a good 50 years after that flow of immigration started, are things normalizing for them, and that's because many of these Indian families are in their 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th generations in the UK.

    Not to mention, Indians speak better English than most of those from Hong Kong because the Indian government after Independence in 1947 prioritized English education, knowing they'd have to be world citizens sooner rather than later.

    Let's just gloss over the inherent racism of a "good type" of immigrant and how that's kind of a bullshit dichotomy.

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