Russia Constituional Vote: Putin for Life

[Pannonian]

It's not like positions of German President get much screentime abroad. Or considered to be decision-makers in broad context.

Merkel - 85 millions of google hits; Frank-Walter Steinmeier - ~6 million google hits.

Still it is only the third highest position. It may be the most important, but it is not the highest. Your google search doesn't change that fact.

Words matter.

And why does it matter? because the highest position HAS a term limit.

So your strawman is not only wrong, it is also wrongly applied.

[Pannonian]

In Estonia we have a president too. Highest position. The only thing she does is makes speeches on events. She has absolutely no power. But she has the highest position.

You seem to be stuck on technicality. For all things that actually matter, Estonian president and German president are irrelevant, highest position here is held by prime minister, in Germany (as far as I know) by chancellor.

Context matters. In this case highest = has the most power, not highest on technical hierarchy. Also language differences matter, so same words can have different meanings or interpretation and this forum is not only English people.

Use your brain and think about context instead of arguing on language technicality.

Have you actually looked at the powers of the german president? They may have been curtailed in the recent past, but they're still substantional. It IS the head of state, and while german presidents have voluntarily not used their powers, they're still there.

So its not a technicality. It is in fact the most powerful position in germany.

Your comparison with Estonia may be nice, but it doesn't matter, as this is about the GERMAN president. At least read up on it before you try to make some more wild claims: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Germany

It may take more of a backseat in day to day politics, but it is the most powerful office (heck it's the way the Nazis got to power (though back then it was even more powerful)) and there is a good reason for term limits for the most powerful office.

So no, it's not a technicality, and if you don't know the political system it may seem that way, but in fact it isn't.

He can appoint the government and also disband it (so he's the boss of Merkel) and that's why it does matter in this instance, because Merkel may have no term limits, but she holds neither the most powerful nor the highest office.

[Domcho]

Well, kind of like a choice between Trump and Biden in modern US. Similar senility, and even worse arrogance. (hell, Politburo was mostly younger - Chernenko was 73 when he died, Andropov 69, Brezhnev 75 vs Biden's current 77 and Trump's 73)

It really doesn't matter who will be chosen in the end. Most US problems will not change significantly until those upholding structure that creates them are wiped out - be it through dying out with time, economic or social upheavals that push them out of their current niches, or revolutions. And same thing was true for USSR.

I think the USA is headed towards it's own Perestroika.

[Ripster42]

Nobody on this planet who's sane supports racism. The LGBT rainbow thing, however, is different. If in USA a man wearing a dress is called progress, in Eastern Europe it's called lunacy, cultural and moral decay. Negative sentiment towards LGBT in Eastern Europe is not exclusive to far-right morons (who are also racist and violent maniacs). Other than the neo-nazis, the rest don't care about an individual's choice of whether he wants to be heterosexual or something else. What they do care about though, is that LGBT rainbow stuff is not advertised publicly, especially to children. And unlike America, in Eastern Europe this isn't about left-wing vs right-wing policy. This is common sense. If you're a political party trying to push LGBT values into those conservative societies, this will likely fire back in the form of political suicide and radicalization of the people.

This argument, as far as I can tell, is, "Our politicians are only homophobic because they have to be; since most of the people who live here are just as homophobic, believe gay people are lunatics (and are trying to fuck your kids apparently), and will vote them out of power if they stop mistreating people."

[Milchshake]

This argument, as far as I can tell, is, "Our politicians are only homophobic because they have to be; since most of the people who live here are just as homophobic, believe gay people are lunatics (and are trying to fuck your kids apparently), and will vote them out of power if they stop mistreating people."

Ironically they decriminalized most Domestic Violence just a few years ago. So you're more likely to be harmed by a family member than any queer folk.

[Shalcker]

Ironically they decriminalized most Domestic Violence just a few years ago. So you're more likely to be harmed by a family member than any queer folk.

It was quite weird when they criminalised it in the first place a year or two before de-criminalising it.

I guess you could make an argument that it sounded like good idea that was a lot more tricky then it appeared to them in practice.

[Easo]

It was quite weird when they criminalised it in the first place a year or two before de-criminalising it.

I guess you could make an argument that it sounded like good idea that was a lot more tricky then it appeared to them in practice.

I suppose that it was too hard for the cops to understand that they need to take that seriously. "Бьёт значит любит" mentality is very much alive still.

[caervek]

I voted no because I don't like him, but I also believe that if the people of Russia want to re-elect him they should be allowed to do so as many times as they see fit.

Having said that it's not like Putin has ever been a highly popular leader for them, from previous election results he's always won elections due to the lack of credible opposition more than his own merits.

[Milchshake]

Vote is in the final day.
There's reporting showing a major difference between exit polling and results so far.

[Wilfire]

I stand with Trump
I vote for Putin

[Easo]

They were selling the new Constitution even before the voting, hard to make it more obvious that the vote does not matter. Also, there was totally no voting from the car trunks, no no no, gotta be lies!
I also seem to remember Putin promising that he wont change the Constitution. Ah, how time passes

[Ihavewaffles]

Term limits are undemocratic, you prevent the people the right to decide, last constitution was undemocratic n had added lots of copy-paste from foreign, western countries no voters in Russia had a say in...

Now they get to vote on it, (who voted in US constitution? Nobody, that's who

[Gaidax]

They can do whatever they want, if they want a Tzar then they are getting one.

In the end they will themselves lop his head off and topple his symbols either during his time or posthumously, as usual, just to have another one take his place.

That's just that Magic Circle of Russian hopelessness for its citizens.

[zorkuus]

Term limits are undemocratic, you prevent the people the right to decide, last constitution was undemocratic n had added lots of copy-paste from foreign, western countries no voters in Russia had a say in...

Now they get to vote on it, (who voted in US constitution? Nobody, that's who

The arguments just keep getting better and better. Now western countries are "undemocratic". Well stupid people deserve to be ruled by strongmen who exploit them.

[ati87]

They can do whatever they want, if they want a Tzar then they are getting one.

In the end they will themselves lop his head off and topple his symbols either during his time or posthumously, as usual, just to have another one take his place.

That's just that Magic Circle of Russian hopelessness for its citizens.

It's also how you get a civil war.
A single ''strong'' leader who rules by brute strength and who can not afford a second in command that can replace him when the time comes because that person who back stab him instead.

[caervek]

The arguments just keep getting better and better. Now western countries are "undemocratic".

Most western countries don't have term limits as they only serve to impede democracy. People just assume we all have them as the USA still does and they're the poster child for the West.

Term limits are just stupid as in a democracy they only serve to undermine the will of the people and in a dictatorship they get revoked anyway.

[zorkuus]

Most western countries don't have term limits

Demonstrably untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._limits#Europe

Suck it.

[Leobald]

Demonstrably untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._limits#Europe

Suck it.

The general tradition is to have limited terms for Heads of State (Presidents). Note that in most European countries Presidents have only limited political power, often close to none.

Heads of Government (Prime Ministers and such) usually are running the country, and there are no term limits for them. (I can't think of a single example.)

Even the modified Russian Constitution recognizes that the President can only be re-elected once. This stipulation is even more strict than the previous one, which only said that a President cannot have more than two consecutive terms, which allowed Putin to return to the presidency after he passed it off two his loyal henchman Medvedev between 2008 and 2012 when his first two terms expired. (He was Prime Minister then.)

The trick this time around - which illustrates more than anything the true nature of the Russian system - is that in a last-minute change to the amendments (literally introduced a few hours before the final vote) they specifically exempted Putin personally from this limitation, saying that presidential terms that started before the changes to the Constitution don't count for the limit.

This allows Putin to run for re-election in 2024 and 2030, effectively meaning Putin can remain President for life (he will be 83 in 2036).

Note that the presidential term was already raised from 4 years to 6 years before Putin's return in 2012 so that he can stay longer in office.

[zorkuus]

Heads of Government (Prime Ministers and such) usually are running the country, and there are no term limits for them. (I can't think of a single example.)

Their "term limit" is often the ruling party or a coalition in the government. When they're out it's very difficult (often impossible) for a prime minister to get the confidence of another party.

[caervek]

Demonstrably untrue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._limits#Europe

Suck it.

Wrong.

If you had read what you Googled before posting you would have seen that that list is almost entirely monarchs (kings/queens), unelected presidents (chosen by politicians not the people) and the Pope. Most first world countries do not have a limit on the amount of times the people can elect the leader of the country they want.

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They can do whatever they want, if they want a Tzar then they are getting one.

Let's be honest, if it was just a vote to let Putin run for election as many times as he wants it wouldn't have had anywhere near this level of support (if it even passed, he's never been all that popular, his election victories are historically an example of people expressing their support for the least worst choice). It was the increased pensions and minimum wage part of the vote that had overwhelming support.