[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Val the Moofia Boss]

its a shame that this game is headed by that guy, I pledged a while ago for the avenger titan, I guess I'm happy to sit and wait for it to become a more rounded game and actually have something that could be called a full loop.

at the same time i've read a good portion of this thread and I'm not sure what the actual point of the argument is..

to me if someone else came out with a space game that was even a fraction of what this game hopes to one day be, I'd be all over it, so would everyone else. but that game does not exist. star citizen does and its most ppl best hope of a game of this scope in the shortest amount of time. if information about another game or a competitor to star citizen was released tomorrow it would still be years behind this project. elite dangerous is likely the closest title but look at how long its taken them to get to where they are, their walking around expansion doesn't release until next year, they still haven't done atmospheric planets. both games are taking an inordinate amount of time to reach a 'completed' state. no amount of whining is going to change much.

in other words you can shit on SC as much as you want, but until someone comes along with a game that can compete with it, its the game that there is. rather than the game that there is not. its the idea that there is some sort of better game 'why waste your time on this game when there is this other game' except in the case of SC, there is no other game.

^^^

Star Citizen exists because there is a massive untapped audience that demands for something like it to exist. That audience has hardly been catered to over the past two decades. Freelancer was the last big space sim and it was incomplete. Up until the first alphas of Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous launched in 2014 and 2015, Freelancer servers had the largest multiplayer population of any space sim. It's very telling that the space sim community clung to a 2003 game for over a decade. There just wasn't simply anything else.

The Star Citizen kickstarter embodies hope for the space sim audience. None of the big studios bothers with the space sim genre and Microsoft left the space sim audience standing in the cold when they booted Chris off of his project. The space sim audience has always wondered for over a decade what they completed game would be like. Then this kickstarter comes along, at a time when there is literally no other hope to see anything like it. 7 years have passed since the initial kickstarter and there is still nothing like what the audience wants... except that kickstarter. It's no wonder then why Star Citizen remains so popular despite the many failings of the project.

[Pohut]

So is the SQ42 beta out today as promised?

[Cracked]

its a shame that this game is headed by that guy, I pledged a while ago for the avenger titan, I guess I'm happy to sit and wait for it to become a more rounded game and actually have something that could be called a full loop.

at the same time i've read a good portion of this thread and I'm not sure what the actual point of the argument is..

For me, the point of the argument is that I believe what they are doing is highly immoral, borderline fraud. Milking gullible customers, probably with zero intention to deliver, as shown by the blatant lies such as "it will be feature complete and more by the end of the year" made 5 YEARS AGO. They screech that they can burn their money any way they see fit, like a 16 year old girl throws a tantrum to her parents about her 35 year old boyfriend. At some point, there needs to be a 3rd party that says enough is enough, you've done enough damage.

[Gorsameth]

Microsoft left the space sim audience standing in the cold when they booted Chris off of his project. The space sim audience has always wondered for over a decade what they completed game would be like.

Your assuming Freelancer would have released by now if Chris had been allowed to remain in charge.

[Aliven]

Your assuming Freelancer would have released by now if Chris had been allowed to remain in charge.

He was unable to complete the project thats why he get kicked out of it. Rightfully so.

[kenn9530]

He was unable to complete the project thats why he get kicked out of it. Rightfully so.

For one he didnt get kicked out of anything it was his company and he knew it would be hard to create freelancer, the game was pretty damn good just think how much better it would be if it was actually completed, he sold it to microsoft so the game would be completed and he would of got a fair amount of money for the company.

Like chris or hate him he actually has the balls to go for it and develop a game for the space community that no other develop would even attempt.

So is the SQ42 beta out today as promised?

Even if the beta was launched today its not going to be an open beta, at the very most the evocati are the only players that will have access to it, players will not be able to play SQ42 until its full release.

[Gorsameth]

For one he didnt get kicked out of anything it was his company and he knew it would be hard to create freelancer, the game was pretty damn good just think how much better it would be if it was actually completed, he sold it to microsoft so the game would be completed and he would of got a fair amount of money for the company.

Like chris or hate him he actually has the balls to go for it and develop a game for the space community that no other develop would even attempt.

He had wild idea's, ran out of money and was forced to sell his company. Microsoft had been involved well before they bought the company, they were already listed as the publisher in 1999.

Whether or not Chris was 'forced' out is debatable but considering the game was his brainchild and he wasn't kept on for the development could be seen as telling (and no the consulting role doesn't count. George Lucas had a 'consulting role' in the new SW's and Disney ignored him.

The most telling fact to me is the simple fact that it took 3 years for Microsoft to turn whatever they bought from Chris and Digital Anvil into an actual game that is only a shell of what Chris Roberts wanted.

How little did they produce in those 3 years that it took another 3 to make Freelancer into what it was?

As for the 'one one else has even attempted'.
No one has ever swam in a volcano. Should we applaud the man who wants to try it while covered in a plain blanket just because no one else has ever done it before? Or would we call him an idiot?

Anyone can imagine a wonderful paradise fairy-tale. Even an amateur designer recognises he has to consider the practical possibilities.

[kenn9530]

He had wild idea's, ran out of money and was forced to sell his company. Microsoft had been involved well before they bought the company, they were already listed as the publisher in 1999.

Whether or not Chris was 'forced' out is debatable but considering the game was his brainchild and he wasn't kept on for the development could be seen as telling (and no the consulting role doesn't count. George Lucas had a 'consulting role' in the new SW's and Disney ignored him.

The most telling fact to me is the simple fact that it took 3 years for Microsoft to turn whatever they bought from Chris and Digital Anvil into an actual game that is only a shell of what Chris Roberts wanted.

How little did they produce in those 3 years that it took another 3 to make Freelancer into what it was?

As for the 'one one else has even attempted'.
No one has ever swam in a volcano. Should we applaud the man who wants to try it while covered in a plain blanket just because no one else has ever done it before? Or would we call him an idiot?

Anyone can imagine a wonderful paradise fairy-tale. Even an amateur designer recognises he has to consider the practical possibilities.

Its fairly common for a game to take 5-6 years so they were only half way through development of freelancer.

Microsoft wouldnt of bought the company if there was not much game already completed, Chris has already proven he can deliver a good space game with all the games he has made in the past and with star citizen. Microsoft didnt even start talks until 2000 which was the halfway point.

[1001]

Its fairly common for a game to take 5-6 years so they were only half way through development of freelancer.

Fairly common indeed and yet Roberts said his "widly ambitious" game could be done in just 3 years, 1997 start, 2000 release. By the time those 3 years were up it was still a long way from completion requiring another 3 years just to get a much more tamed version of the game released. Had Roberts not needed MS to step in and assume control he would probably still be working on Freelancer now.

[Cracked]

Its fairly common for a game to take 5-6 years so they were only half way through development of freelancer.

Microsoft wouldnt of bought the company if there was not much game already completed, Chris has already proven he can deliver a good space game with all the games he has made in the past and with star citizen. Microsoft didnt even start talks until 2000 which was the halfway point.

It was NOT "fairly common" for games to spend 6 years in development in early 2000s. The common times in the industry were 18 to 24 months depending on the size of the project, go ask anyone who did game dev in the 90s. Heck, WoW took about 4.5 years to develop and that was seen as a gargantuan project that pretty much no one could replicate at the time.

For AAA games, even today 6 years isn't "the norm". Average would be somewhere around 3-5 years. I can acknowledge that multiplayer games usually take somewhat longer due to the added difficulty of netcode. The thing is, you have to have a specification to develop proper netcode, which SC clearly lacks.

There is no way around saying that SC has been in development for far longer than even the most technically challenging games released. SWTOR took around 5 years for example, that's start to release, it doesn't mean the time "maximum number of people have been working on it" as some of you like to throw around the excuse that the studio was smaller. SC development time overshoot is just a fact. There is no emotion about it, because it can be shown to be true.

[Odeezee]

^^^

Star Citizen exists because there is a massive untapped audience that demands for something like it to exist. That audience has hardly been catered to over the past two decades. Freelancer was the last big space sim and it was incomplete. Up until the first alphas of Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous launched in 2014 and 2015, Freelancer servers had the largest multiplayer population of any space sim. It's very telling that the space sim community clung to a 2003 game for over a decade. There just wasn't simply anything else.

The Star Citizen kickstarter embodies hope for the space sim audience. None of the big studios bothers with the space sim genre and Microsoft left the space sim audience standing in the cold when they booted Chris off of his project. The space sim audience has always wondered for over a decade what they completed game would be like. Then this kickstarter comes along, at a time when there is literally no other hope to see anything like it. 7 years have passed since the initial kickstarter and there is still nothing like what the audience wants... except that kickstarter. It's no wonder then why Star Citizen remains so popular despite the many failings of the project.

but why would you want to introduce nuance into the mix here? this thread has turned into nothing but unjustified criticisms without evidence, conspiracy theories about CR, the devs, the backers and the game, misinformation and just outright lies to push a negative narrative of the game. the very idea of comparing a game in alpha development to any fully released title is in and of itself disingenuous and bad faith af, but that is the currency of this thread. and even though i agree with most of what you said it will fall on deaf ears in this thread as they do not want to debate things on the merits, they would just rather create Strawmans out of others' arguments and attack those instead.

people complain the game has taken too long and should have already been out, but when you ask them how they arrived at that conclusion they start giving you estimates from the devs either before the game increased in size, scope and fidelity or after CR realized he was being too optimistic with the whole Answer The Call slogan estimates and when they decided to use procedural assisted planetary generation for both SC and SQ42. now, can you be upset at CR for his estimates? ofc, but you had until the end of 2017 to get an uncontested refund if you were tired of waiting or not happy with the direction of the game, which i will always re-iterate, they were never legally obligated to do. but to complain about dates now when there are none is kinda childish. we are seeing first hand just how difficult it is to make a game like this, otherwise why have no other dev teams that have better funding, more veteran devs, better infrastructure tried to emulate what SC is trying to produce? it cannot be a lack of interest as we see that there are many people willing to pledge to fund a game still in development and that may never actually even be finished/released.

this thread has turned into what appears to be a coping place for detractors of the game, idk if shitting on the game gives them some sort of satisfaction or what, but w/e the reason it seems to be sad af. most of the detractors, have never even played the game to begin with or have potato pcs/net that won't be able to get the most of out testing the alphas until the game is more stable, after it is feature complete. it would be cool if this place was more for actually talking about the game itself, like is anyone interested in the upcoming ROC mining land vehicle? is anyone interested in the upcoming Theaters of War? how do weapons feel, sound, look atm, etc. but nope it's just conspiracy this, conflation that, scam this and "you can't like what i don't like" that.

if anyone is down for some mercenary missions either ship or fps lmk. i am trying to gauge how it is now so i can compare it to the next patch since it should be introducing many improvements to both. just add Odeezee in-game or on Spectrum and i'll accept it next time i log on.

[Kyanion]

but why would you want to introduce nuance into the mix here? this thread has turned into nothing but unjustified criticisms without evidence

Really? No evidence at all? I guess quotes from CR himself mean jack shit to you.

- - - Updated - - -

people complain the game has taken too long and should have already been out, but when you ask them how they arrived at that conclusion they start giving you estimates from the devs either before the game increased in size, scope and fidelity or after CR realized he was being too optimistic with the whole Answer The Call slogan estimates and when they decided to use procedural assisted planetary generation for both SC and SQ42. now, can you be upset at CR for his estimates?

Duh? Hence people complained because the game has taken too long because feature creep and CR being totally wrong. And people are totally right to be upset, the game has been in dev hell for years and still has YEARS to go. Years.

[Jastall]

^^^

Star Citizen exists because there is a massive untapped audience that demands for something like it to exist. That audience has hardly been catered to over the past two decades. Freelancer was the last big space sim and it was incomplete. Up until the first alphas of Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous launched in 2014 and 2015, Freelancer servers had the largest multiplayer population of any space sim. It's very telling that the space sim community clung to a 2003 game for over a decade. There just wasn't simply anything else.

The Star Citizen kickstarter embodies hope for the space sim audience. None of the big studios bothers with the space sim genre and Microsoft left the space sim audience standing in the cold when they booted Chris off of his project. The space sim audience has always wondered for over a decade what they completed game would be like. Then this kickstarter comes along, at a time when there is literally no other hope to see anything like it. 7 years have passed since the initial kickstarter and there is still nothing like what the audience wants... except that kickstarter. It's no wonder then why Star Citizen remains so popular despite the many failings of the project.

Sustaining yourself on hope is a fragile arrangement at best, especially when hope keeps asking for thousands of dollars in pretend ships.

People can do what they please with their money, obviously. But this doesn't sound like a game one can have a healthy relationship with, to be a bit dramatic. I fucking love the RTS genre and the last really good one was basically SC2, ten years ago without counting the expansions, with Relic-made games scratching the itch as well but not completely. But I sure as hell wouldn't let that irrationally make me hope for THE perfect RTS and throw silly amounts of money at someone who promises to make it yet keeps having a shoddy track record in practice.

Star Citizen is more or less the embodiment of perfect being the worst enemy of good, if you ask me.

[kenn9530]

Sustaining yourself on hope is a fragile arrangement at best, especially when hope keeps asking for thousands of dollars in pretend ships.

People can do what they please with their money, obviously. But this doesn't sound like a game one can have a healthy relationship with, to be a bit dramatic. I fucking love the RTS genre and the last really good one was basically SC2, ten years ago without counting the expansions, with Relic-made games scratching the itch as well but not completely. But I sure as hell wouldn't let that irrationally make me hope for THE perfect RTS and throw silly amounts of money at someone who promises to make it yet keeps having a shoddy track record in practice.

Star Citizen is more or less the embodiment of perfect being the worst enemy of good, if you ask me.

Hope has nothing to do with it, we can already see how the game is taking shape so we know the game is going in the right direction.

CiG has never asked backers to spend more than just the basic starter package, its on the backer themselves if they choose to spend thousands on backing the development of the game and should accept all risks that comes along with the project.

Without chris there would be an even larger void in the space game genre, no wing commander or freelancer, he is the only one with the balls to create this project.

[Kyanion]

Hope has nothing to do with it, we can already see how the game is taking shape so we know the game is going in the right direction.

Yeah sure if they can magically get all of this tech to work with more than 50 people which is yet to be seen. Either way your 'hoping' it all comes together and it will still be YEARS from now.

[Majestic12]

now, can you be upset at CR for his estimates? ofc, but you had until the end of 2017 to get an uncontested refund if you were tired of waiting or not happy with the direction of the game, which i will always re-iterate, they were never legally obligated to do.

That depends on where you live. CIG's TOS can never override EU or Australian consumer laws for instance. As a customer, you are bound by the laws where you reside - not by the laws of the country of whichever origin the company has.

In the EU we pay VAT. That grants us certain rights.

If CIG were to go to court in the EU or AUS for instance, they'd always lose.

If you're American, RIP.

this thread has turned into what appears to be a coping place for detractors of the game

To cope with what? I am still a backer of the game. I haven't lost anything by reducing the amount I am in for.

The only coping I see is from the supporters, who no matter what, feel the need to defend the game much like you do with nothing but hot air. You attack people instead of arguments. Kenn is literally over $1000 in and it's all he does. MrAnderson does the same, and despite saying how much he should ignore us, he just won't do it. He feels compelled to attack people over the words posted in this thread.

Yeah, I think the coping place is for you guys not anybody else.

I don't miss owning my ships, nor will I miss my meager money if they'd shut the place down tomorrow.

, idk if shitting on the game gives them some sort of satisfaction or what

It does. Immensly. The most successful kickstarter project, 9 years of development and no game.

it would be cool if this place was more for actually talking about the game itself, like is anyone interested in the upcoming ROC mining land vehicle? is anyone interested in the upcoming Theaters of War? how do weapons feel, sound, look atm, etc. but nope it's just conspiracy this, conflation that, scam this and "you can't like what i don't like" that.

You know, if you really wanted to achieve that, it'd be a lot easier if you guys actually would concede some of the points and facts that are brought up. You haven't done that, ever, no matter how excruciatingly detailed posts we write.

What you actually do is toss oil on the fire with personal attacks in return. So we never get to move forward. You are literally a part of this yourself.

All I want now is news on SQ42 so that one day I can end up playing what I expect to be an average single-player experience. Then I can compare it with Cyberpunk 2077 and show everyone how underwhelming CIG's work has been after so long.

We better hope that Chris doesn't play Cyberpunk, because if he does, he "may" get some ideas for Star Citizen which will bring further feature creep.

[Beazy]

I wonder how much longer CRobberts can keep this going.

[Cracked]

I wonder how much longer CRobberts can keep this going.

Well, 6 years later, they managed to implement half of that mechanic. So I guess it's something?

[ldev]

^^^

Star Citizen exists because there is a massive untapped audience that demands for something like it to exist. That audience has hardly been catered to over the past two decades. Freelancer was the last big space sim and it was incomplete. Up until the first alphas of Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous launched in 2014 and 2015, Freelancer servers had the largest multiplayer population of any space sim. It's very telling that the space sim community clung to a 2003 game for over a decade. There just wasn't simply anything else.

The Star Citizen kickstarter embodies hope for the space sim audience. None of the big studios bothers with the space sim genre and Microsoft left the space sim audience standing in the cold when they booted Chris off of his project. The space sim audience has always wondered for over a decade what they completed game would be like. Then this kickstarter comes along, at a time when there is literally no other hope to see anything like it. 7 years have passed since the initial kickstarter and there is still nothing like what the audience wants... except that kickstarter. It's no wonder then why Star Citizen remains so popular despite the many failings of the project.

Star Citizen doesn't exist, it only exists in your and the scammers head, wtf...

[Heathy]

but it does, ill agree that there are issues with the management of this thing and that other weird or sketchy vibes come from some of the issues surrounding this game, although, there is still a dev team, that goes to work every day, trying to make this game, whether chris roberts sole intention was to scam everyone with a promise of an epic space sim he could never deliver, the fact remains that a game is being made. if ppl are too impatient feel free to design and create you're own space epic.