1. #1

    Ranged slots (Warrior, Rogue, etc); Melee weapons for hunters

    Do you guys like having a ranged slot for warrior/rogue? Does it feel out of place or unnecessary?

    What about melee weapons for hunters?

    Does it feel fun to get a new upgrade for the slot or best to just remove it because it's not needed?

  2. #2
    I'm not sure how to respond to this... rogue and warrior have literally no other way to tag mobs at range for some pulls... this aint live where heroic throw and shuriken toss exist and Taunt is barely farther than melee range.

    As for "fun" felt abuot upgrades? That is entirely dependent on how much of an upgrade a given item is. Yeah my rogue/warrior's first bow with stats felt awesome, but after awhile it only was cool when the next one had a series stat boost over my current or had stats tuned to what I was after.


    Also any stat stick in classic is appreciated unless yuo don't know how stats work for classic >.>

  3. #3
    Do you like having the extra slot to upgrade, and do those slots feel impactful enough to exist? In retail WOW warriors and rogues don't have ranged slots, Hunter's dont need melee weapons, and classes such as death knights, druids, paladins, etc don't have Sigils

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    THey're stat sticks. Is it nice? I suppose so, but they're effectively a piece of armor. The DPS and damage on them is irrelevant, so it's not as cool as getting a new weapon that will have more of an effect on your performance.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Do you guys like having a ranged slot for warrior/rogue? Does it feel out of place or unnecessary?

    What about melee weapons for hunters?

    Does it feel fun to get a new upgrade for the slot or best to just remove it because it's not needed?
    Optimal dps for hunters includes melee weaving. Theyre more than stat sticks.

  6. #6
    The Patient Darkynhalvos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Optimal dps for hunters includes melee weaving. Theyre more than stat sticks.
    How big of a difference is it, say, between 2 identically geared hunters where one weaves and the other does not?

    Always wondered about that.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkynhalvos View Post
    How big of a difference is it, say, between 2 identically geared hunters where one weaves and the other does not?

    Always wondered about that.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ashkandi_is_a/

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! gaymer77's Avatar
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    Melee weapons for hunters and all the casters were ALWAYS about a stat stick. Their spells & ranged attacks would not trigger from enchants on their melee weapons (ie crusader didn't proc for a hunter if he had his melee weapons enchanted with it). Melee weapons for hunters & casters were always enchanted with static amounts of a certain thing (+healing power, +frost damage, +agility, etc etc) because those enchants did not require the use of the melee weapon to trigger it. The same was said for rogues & warriors use of a ranged weapon. It was strictly for giving the player additional stats. Unless the warrior or rogue was using their ranged weapon in their rotation (which would require the opposite of the hunter's problem and the rogue or warrior would have to step OUTSIDE melee range to use their ranged weapon) any proc from a ranged weapon was wasted on the rogue & warrior. Just an FYI, druids, shaman, and paladins did have sigils even back in vanilla (and death knights had them in WOTLK when they were introduced). Some times they added an additional something to the way a spell worked (ie increase the amount rejuv healed for by 50, etc etc) and some times they just added more stats to your character. Blizzard got rid of sigils for those classes and ranged weapons for rogue/warrior in WOTLK if I remember correctly or it may have been in Cata. When that change was implemented hunters & casters could equip only a melee weapon or a ranged weapon but not both at the same time (wands are ranged weapons for casters BTW). Also as others have pointed out, unless a rogue or warrior had a ranged weapon (with the correct ammo equipped too) they had no ranged abilities. That means that warriors had no way of hitting an add that popped up unless they ran over to the add and taunted (which has a shorter than one would believe range).

    As for the question asked in the OP, I liked having those slots on characters until they were taken away. I liked how you could have a pure stat stick and not have to worry about figuring in dps increases or if a certain proc was better on weapon Y vs weapon X. It took away some thinking and number crunching to be able to look at an item and say "oh this increases X stat which is more than I have now to its an upgrade". The nice thing about these stat sticks of the olden days is unlike your "attack weapon", you could immediately equip the stat stick if you got it because you didn't have to worry about getting it immediately enchanted to be able to use it (hunters & casters would be the only exception since their enchants were static increases to their damage or healing done).

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkynhalvos View Post
    How big of a difference is it, say, between 2 identically geared hunters where one weaves and the other does not?

    Always wondered about that.
    There isn't any. If anything a hunter that tries to weave in melee is lowering his dps than a hunter that is using all ranged attacks. Hunters in vanilla used mana and even melee attacks (which required a different range to be in than the range for their bow/xbow/gun) used mana and triggered a GCD. So effectively you would have a hunter moving to be in melee range, using a GCD for an attack that wasn't as high in damage as ranged attacks, and using mana for said not as high damage dealing attack. I'm not sure where TF he got that optimal dps for hunters included weaving melee into their rotation.

  9. #9
    Stat sticks in classic are nice because despite only carrying stats, they will still have a noticable improvement on your performance, items like Drake Fang Talisman are a perfect example.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    Melee weapons for hunters and all the casters were ALWAYS about a stat stick. Their spells & ranged attacks would not trigger from enchants on their melee weapons (ie crusader didn't proc for a hunter if he had his melee weapons enchanted with it). Melee weapons for hunters & casters were always enchanted with static amounts of a certain thing (+healing power, +frost damage, +agility, etc etc) because those enchants did not require the use of the melee weapon to trigger it. The same was said for rogues & warriors use of a ranged weapon. It was strictly for giving the player additional stats. Unless the warrior or rogue was using their ranged weapon in their rotation (which would require the opposite of the hunter's problem and the rogue or warrior would have to step OUTSIDE melee range to use their ranged weapon) any proc from a ranged weapon was wasted on the rogue & warrior. Just an FYI, druids, shaman, and paladins did have sigils even back in vanilla (and death knights had them in WOTLK when they were introduced). Some times they added an additional something to the way a spell worked (ie increase the amount rejuv healed for by 50, etc etc) and some times they just added more stats to your character. Blizzard got rid of sigils for those classes and ranged weapons for rogue/warrior in WOTLK if I remember correctly or it may have been in Cata. When that change was implemented hunters & casters could equip only a melee weapon or a ranged weapon but not both at the same time (wands are ranged weapons for casters BTW). Also as others have pointed out, unless a rogue or warrior had a ranged weapon (with the correct ammo equipped too) they had no ranged abilities. That means that warriors had no way of hitting an add that popped up unless they ran over to the add and taunted (which has a shorter than one would believe range).

    As for the question asked in the OP, I liked having those slots on characters until they were taken away. I liked how you could have a pure stat stick and not have to worry about figuring in dps increases or if a certain proc was better on weapon Y vs weapon X. It took away some thinking and number crunching to be able to look at an item and say "oh this increases X stat which is more than I have now to its an upgrade". The nice thing about these stat sticks of the olden days is unlike your "attack weapon", you could immediately equip the stat stick if you got it because you didn't have to worry about getting it immediately enchanted to be able to use it (hunters & casters would be the only exception since their enchants were static increases to their damage or healing done).



    There isn't any. If anything a hunter that tries to weave in melee is lowering his dps than a hunter that is using all ranged attacks. Hunters in vanilla used mana and even melee attacks (which required a different range to be in than the range for their bow/xbow/gun) used mana and triggered a GCD. So effectively you would have a hunter moving to be in melee range, using a GCD for an attack that wasn't as high in damage as ranged attacks, and using mana for said not as high damage dealing attack. I'm not sure where TF he got that optimal dps for hunters included weaving melee into their rotation.
    So much of what youre saying is incorrect. Its not optimal to melee weave in every fright, but theres a window, where dropping a raptor strike is far more dps than another auto shot. Average raptor strike > avg auto shot. Check this thread for the rotation: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...ashkandi_is_a/
    Last edited by Daymanmb; 2020-06-29 at 02:40 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gaymer77 View Post
    There isn't any. If anything a hunter that tries to weave in melee is lowering his dps than a hunter that is using all ranged attacks. Hunters in vanilla used mana and even melee attacks (which required a different range to be in than the range for their bow/xbow/gun) used mana and triggered a GCD. So effectively you would have a hunter moving to be in melee range, using a GCD for an attack that wasn't as high in damage as ranged attacks, and using mana for said not as high damage dealing attack. I'm not sure where TF he got that optimal dps for hunters included weaving melee into their rotation.
    With the normal melee weaving rotation you go in to use raptor strike when Aimed and Multi Shot are on cooldown and between 2 autoshots anyway, you dont have anything else to do in that timeframe and if you are good you shouldnt delay the next autoshot at all (or by very minor amount which stills nets more dps with the added raptors). There are other rotations that also inlcude melee whitehits which seem to be really strong too (especially horde with WF) if you have the right weapon setup (speed).

    But for most hunters melee weapons are indeed just statsticks and they shouldnt try melee weaving if they cant even get their normal ranged rotation right .

    If anyone is interested here is a good guide:

    https://classicwow.live/guides/1914/...-melee-weaving
    Last edited by lonely zergling; 2020-06-29 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #12
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Meh, its a stat stick and shitty ranged pull. Theres a reason they got rid of em.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Do you guys like having a ranged slot for warrior/rogue? Does it feel out of place or unnecessary?

    What about melee weapons for hunters?

    Does it feel fun to get a new upgrade for the slot or best to just remove it because it's not needed?
    There's are literal spec revolving around a hunter with melee weapons. So it feels good to have a melee weapon as a hunter.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    Hunters use melee weapons more than rogues use ranged weapons. In PvP, you'll be meleeing quite alot. Melee Weaving is also part of min-maxing dps as a hunter in raids. If you do that, you really need a strong 2hander.

  15. #15
    Blademaster
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    In the end everything is more or less stat sticks. You equip them, it gives you stats, even without you actually using it.
    Classic is how it is, what there is really to talk about it?
    In BFA atm head shoulders and chest are something that I hate. forcing some shitty grinding mechanic into item's power.

  16. #16
    I liked the flavor of it tbh. Frankly, I wished they would have added a skill or two that uses the ranged weapon similar to hunters having a melee skill. It wouldn't be something to use for optimal rotation but for pulling and getting that extra damage while moving or being kites would be neat IMO.

    I have even wished that Blizzard would allow ranged weapons to be displayed somehow (between the melee weapon and character back) with an option to toggle on/off.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by S2H View Post
    Do you like having the extra slot to upgrade, and do those slots feel impactful enough to exist? In retail WOW warriors and rogues don't have ranged slots, Hunter's dont need melee weapons, and classes such as death knights, druids, paladins, etc don't have Sigils
    The way hunters are played now they do need a melee weapon to do top DPS as the raptor strike weave. It is also use for abilities like wingclip, etc.

  18. #18
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I actually do like it because it feels more authentic than just pulling an axe out of your pocket to pull, or ranged weapons being de facto melee weapons.

    But that's because I'm in this for RPG elements and authenticity I guess, not treating it as a math puzzle to solve.
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  19. #19
    i always liked having the gun/bow animation for my ranged attack. but the item itself who cares, might as well be bracers/gloves/a libram we got later/any other random slot that's just a statstick.

    i didn't like the running out of bullets part, but one can make a good argument that that is a good way to get more invested in your character, the fact that i remember it kinda proves that.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2020-07-08 at 09:58 PM.

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