The Last of Us Part II

[Darththeo]

https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/st...73199918292992

Well now you can say that you've seen one.

Those individuals are idiots. Laura is awesome and did a good job voicing Abbie.

I don't hate Abbie ... I hate that the story is crap. Laura/Abbie and Ashley/Ellie deserved to have a better story. They are both amazing voice actors and from what I can see people. No one deserves death threats for this game ... it is a game. Play the first one and pretend the sequel doesn't exist.

And the absolute morons who are threatening to kill Laura's child don't deserve anything ... they deserve to have their PS4 taken away and have tattooed on them "I want to murder a child over a video game."

[Orby]

https://twitter.com/LauraBaileyVO/st...73199918292992

Well now you can say that you've seen one.

I will never understand internet culture... Not liking something is fine, very normal, there are loads of things that I don't like, movies, video games, film and TV, but I move on to things I do enjoy.

Now days people will get so invested in not liking something that they gather like-minded individuals to validate their opinion create toxic atmosphere and then go after people because they feel their opinion is right and feel they have a high ground.

I never played Last of Us, but I follow Laura Bailey because I think she is really cool and super talented, and she loves her work, she's probably one of the nicest people on twitter too. To have people then go after her becuase she dared voice someone in a video game you didn't like is beyond fucking disgraceful.

This weird obsessive attachment people have with media, is very scary, you could write some science fiction shit on it.

Be nice people. Focus on stuff you enjoy. If you enjoy sending death threats to people then get help.

[Mirishka]

I will never understand internet culture... Not liking something is fine, very normal, there are loads of things that I don't like, movies, video games, film and TV, but I move on to things I do enjoy.

Now days people will get so invested in not liking something that they gather like-minded individuals to validate their opinion create toxic atmosphere and then go after people because they feel their opinion is right and feel they have a high ground.

I never played Last of Us, but I follow Laura Bailey because I think she is really cool and super talented, and she loves her work, she's probably one of the nicest people on twitter too. To have people then go after her becuase she dared voice someone in a video game you didn't like is beyond fucking disgraceful.

This weird obsessive attachment people have with media, is very scary, you could write some science fiction shit on it.

Be nice people. Focus on stuff you enjoy. If you enjoy sending death threats to people then get help.

Well said.

[Rennadrel]

And this is why people can't take gamers seriously. Too many manbabies that will call for death threats on voice actors ffs

Ah yes, a few people vs the millions of gamers

Unsurprising that there's some douchebags out there who'd pull that kind of trash, they've always existed. Maybe Twitter needs to be deleted from the internet so we can have a more civil society.

Laura Bailey is also one of the most over used VAs in gaming.

[Kuja]

Is there any word on a PC release for either of the games?

[Kolvarg]

Is there any word on a PC release for either of the games?

Not that I know of, and I wouldn't hope for it since no Naughty Dog game got ported to PC.

The best we can do on the PC at the moment is play the first one through Playstation Now. I haven't used it to play any game "for real" yet. I've only tested it and iirc it looked playable, but there's going to be a noticeable input delay most likely, depending on your internet.

[Skorpionss]

Not that I know of, and I wouldn't hope for it since no Naughty Dog game got ported to PC.

The best we can do on the PC at the moment is play the first one through Playstation Now. I haven't used it to play any game "for real" yet. I've only tested it and iirc it looked playable, but there's going to be a noticeable input delay most likely, depending on your internet.

Input delay, you still need to use a PS4 controller, generally lower quality graphical fidelity due to internet stream limitations.

[Tech614]

Laura Bailey is also one of the most over used VAs in gaming.

Shocker: because she's one of the best in the world that actually does VA for games.

Just listen to the shitty ass VA in cyberpunk if you're wondering why top studios constantly use the same VAs, it's because they don't want their product to be trash in that area.

[Stormdash]

Game Sins has put out its mark-up of The Last of Us Part II, and was definitely worth watching. The final sin was worth transcribing for direct reference, though. Note the lack of incel, the lack of misogyny, the lack of hating LGBT characters, the lack of being "sophisticated enough to understand the story". Just a well placed press-triangle-to-grab-press-triangle-to-shiv take down of the game's central fallacy -

Subverting expectations isn't the same thing as disappointing people, which seems to be the new trend in popular entertainment. Finding a razor blade in my salad is subverting my expectations, but isn't exactly something I'm going to applaud you for.

This game took a risk betting everything, every element of its narrative, that it could make you sympathize with Abby and care about her as much as the first game did with Joel. Abby's half of the game is less dark - more about stopping people from being harmed rather than inflicting harm upon them. She plays fetch with dogs instead of killing them, she gets to grow and change her outlook on the Scars and save children. She even has the better gameplay sections, with more combat and better pacing.

But even with all of that in my case it was a complete failure. Abby never did anything that redeemed her murder of Joel in my eyes, and the devs could only come up with pairing her with a cute kid and hope that the first game's magic would rub off on her.

Forgiving someone who loved you and you loved back over a lie is a far cry different from forgiving someone you never knew who showed up one day and tortured someone you loved to death, destroyed your entire world and who never once sought forgiveness or showed remorse. All the epilogue does is punish Ellie even further, since Dina leaves her along with the baby and Ellie loses two of her fingers, making her unable to play guitar, her only remaining connection to Joel.

I understand the game's message that revenge is bad, but it really only comes across as bad when Ellie is the one seeking it. Abby got her vengeance, it was practically served up to her on a silver plate; she was never once sorry for it and wasn't punished for it to the same degree, and will now get to have a life bonding with Lev just like Ellie would have had with Joel if not for her. To me, Abby is a fundamentally horrible person that did nothing to earn mercy from Ellie, and certainly didn't earn this ending.

[everydaygamer]

Game Sins has put out its mark-up of The Last of Us Part II, and was definitely worth watching. The final sin was worth transcribing for direct reference, though. Note the lack of incel, the lack of misogyny, the lack of hating LGBT characters, the lack of being "sophisticated enough to understand the story". Just a well placed press-triangle-to-grab-press-triangle-to-shiv take down of the game's central fallacy -

I understand the game's message that revenge is bad, but it really only comes across as bad when Ellie is the one seeking it. Abby got her vengeance, it was practically served up to her on a silver plate; she was never once sorry for it and wasn't punished for it to the same degree, and will now get to have a life bonding with Lev just like Ellie would have had with Joel if not for her. To me, Abby is a fundamentally horrible person that did nothing to earn mercy from Ellie, and certainly didn't earn this ending.

Abby objectively loses more than Ellie by the end of the game as her entire world slowly falls apart after getting her revenge both as a result of Ellie's actions and Abby's own after realizing how hollow getting her revenge turned out to be. They say they get revenge is bad yet fail to understand how none of Ellie's problems would be solved by taking her revenge on Abby and that her forgiving Abby is meant to show how Ellie is finally able to break free of her grief over Joel and start to move on and unlike Abby, she still has a chance to pick up the pieces of her shattered life.

Honestly, this isn't that complicated but it's amazing how little thought people end up putting into it.

[Stormdash]

Abby objectively loses more than Ellie by the end of the game as her entire world slowly falls apart after getting her revenge both as a result of Ellie's actions and Abby's own after realizing how hollow getting her revenge turned out to be. They say they get revenge is bad yet fail to understand how none of Ellie's problems would be solved by taking her revenge on Abby and that her forgiving Abby is meant to show how Ellie is finally able to break free of her grief over Joel and start to move on and unlike Abby, she still has a chance to pick up the pieces of her shattered life.

Honestly, this isn't that complicated but it's amazing how little thought people end up putting into it.

The person who still demonstrably has something to live for did not lose more than the one without, sorry. Talk about putting little thought into it, jeez.

[everydaygamer]

The person who still demonstrably has something to live for did not lose more than the one without, sorry. Talk about putting little thought into it, jeez.

That's certainly the most shallow take you could have but sure whatever's easier for you.

[ZazuuPriest]

I understand the game's message that revenge is bad, but it really only comes across as bad when Ellie is the one seeking it. Abby got her vengeance, it was practically served up to her on a silver plate; she was never once sorry for it and wasn't punished for it to the same degree, and will now get to have a life bonding with Lev just like Ellie would have had with Joel if not for her. To me, Abby is a fundamentally horrible person that did nothing to earn mercy from Ellie, and certainly didn't earn this ending.-

Why should she be sorry? If someone shot my dad and arguably hundreds of other people I knew and grew up with in the face I wouldnt feel bad about killing him either, she shouldn't feel bad about the act of killing Joel. Perhaps the aftermath of the action but not the action itself. This synopsis of Abby's character is garbage from someone who wants to hate her character no matter what, probably for the obvious reasons.

[Stormdash]

Ellie and Tommy do the exact same thing and the great and perfect Joel would have done it as well.

Ellie and Tommy did it... right now, within days. Abby stewed on it for four years with no demonstrable sign it wasn't always foremost on her mind. Ellie, after the first failed attempt, at least attempted to move on with life. Taking the point about ludonarrative tension out about all the gameplay mass murder, when Ellie learns she's killed a pregnant woman - in self-defense! - she's stricken by it. When Abby wants to kill a now-incapacitated pregnant woman, it's with delight.

Abby is not shown to suffer any turmoil about either the acts of seeking or of taking revenge; Ellie is shown to be beaten down hard by both, to the point where she can't even go through with the latter. Anybody that thinks it's Abby that comes off seeming the healthier or more well-adjusted in that distinction is a damnable fool. If it says anything about Abby, it's that she has the same zealous moral relativism and compromise of her father and their whole sect - once she's decided she's right about something, it's forever and can bend against all incoming information if she chooses.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should she be sorry? If someone shot my dad and arguably hundreds of other people I knew and grew up with in the face I wouldnt feel bad about killing him either, she shouldn't feel bad about the act of killing Joel. Perhaps the aftermath of the action but not the action itself. This synopsis of Abby's character is garbage from someone who wants to hate her character no matter what, probably for the obvious reasons.

Why should she be sorry? Because the whole point of the game, per its author, is that the cycle of violence and revenge is bad and irredeemably corrosive...

... except for Abby, as the critics rightfully point out, because nothing bad happens to her character, to her peace of mind, her sense of self, from either obsessing about murdering Joel for four years or ultimately doing so even after he'd saved her life out of mere kindness literally minutes earlier. Hell, she doesn't even reckon with Ellie's vengeance in terms of the "cycle", it's just an extrinsic bad thing happening, nothing that she has sown and is now reaping. Well, other than thinking she was too nice, I guess.

EDIT: Like I said way upthread, this is a much less sophisticated take on the cycle of revenge and justice for unrepentant killers than Kill Bill was 16 years ago. At least in that, the Bride's targets understood that she deserved her vengeance, even if she probably deserved anything she had coming too. In TLOU 2, Ellie is the only one of these two women who ever thinks the bad she gets is anything she might have had coming, which is a pretty shitty and incomplete way to contemplate a CYCLE (picture me air-drawing a circle as I say it) of revenge.

[Jastall]

Ah yes, a few people vs the millions of gamers

Unsurprising that there's some douchebags out there who'd pull that kind of trash, they've always existed. Maybe Twitter needs to be deleted from the internet so we can have a more civil society.

Laura Bailey is also one of the most over used VAs in gaming.

She's used a lot because she'a a phenomenal VA with great range. Even in products with fairly poor writing like WoW her voice acting always manages to shine through. Great VAs are hard to come by for games and animation, there's a reason you see the likes of Troy Baker, Nolan North, Laura Bailey, Steve Blum and Jennifer Hale over and over and over again; because it's a hard and fairly thankless job and the best VAs are just head and shoulders above the rest.

[Stormdash]

She's used a lot because she'a a phenomenal VA with great range. Even in products with fairly poor writing like WoW her voice acting always manages to shine through. Great VAs are hard to come by for games and animation, there's a reason you see the likes of Troy Baker, Nolan North, Laura Bailey, Steve Blum and Jennifer Hale over and over and over again; because it's a hard and fairly thankless job and the best VAs are just head and shoulders above the rest.

TLOU 2's cast is like a Scorcese film of voice acting. It was a Gideon Emery away from pure gold.

[Jastall]

TLOU 2's cast is like a Scorcese film of voice acting. It was a Gideon Emery away from pure gold.

I'd add Darin De Paul and/or Patrick Seitz to the mix myself, two of my favorites, but they may generally be a bit too bombastic for this sort of game. And Emery is great but a bit too British for a game that can only feature Americans.

[everydaygamer]

Ellie and Tommy did it... right now, within days. Abby stewed on it for four years with no demonstrable sign it wasn't always foremost on her mind. Ellie, after the first failed attempt, at least attempted to move on with life. Taking the point about ludonarrative tension out about all the gameplay mass murder, when Ellie learns she's killed a pregnant woman - in self-defense! - she's stricken by it. When Abby wants to kill a now-incapacitated pregnant woman, it's with delight.

Abby is not shown to suffer any turmoil about either the acts of seeking or of taking revenge; Ellie is shown to be beaten down hard by both, to the point where she can't even go through with the latter. Anybody that thinks it's Abby that comes off seeming the healthier or more well-adjusted in that distinction is a damnable fool. If it says anything about Abby, it's that she has the same zealous moral relativism and compromise of her father and their whole sect - once she's decided she's right about something, it's forever and can bend against all incoming information if she chooses.

Abby in a sense is a lot like Joel. She does what she feels is necessary and doesn't regret her actions after the fact. When she tries to kill Dina it's out of vengeance for Mel, she seemed happy about because it just seemed too perfect of a way to avenge her friend but Lev convinces her to stop the same way Ellie could pull Joel back from going too far. And yeah Ellie killed Mel in self-defence but there is no way Abby could no that for she knows Ellie did it intentionally and it was a lot more obvious that Mel was pregnant.

As for suffering turmoil over her actions, she absolutely does you just have to pay attention. She doesn't regret killing Joel but she does regret torturing him first which leads her to help Yara and Lev because she feels she needs to do something to balance the scales as she says.

Like I said it isn't hard to see what's going on but it definitely requires a lot more thought than some gamers are willing to give.

I recommend checking out this video for one of the best analysis of this game so far:

[Tech614]

Ellie and Tommy did it... right now, within days. Abby stewed on it for four years with no demonstrable sign it wasn't always foremost on her mind.

You make it more and more clear you didn't play the game and have no idea what you're talking about because it took those 4 years to actually track where Joel was. It wasn't a choice, and thinking mental issues go away magically cause years pass is another incorrect take if you want to go that route. There is a reason the very first time Abby is shown in the game she is waking up for a bad dream, and then later her bad dreams are shown throughout the game.

Again, this isn't subtle shit that flys over your head. It's just apparent you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Stormdash]

You make it more and more clear you didn't play the game and have no idea what you're talking about because it took those 4 years to actually track where Joel was. It wasn't a choice, and thinking mental issues go away magically cause years pass is another incorrect take if you want to go that route. There is a reason the very first time Abby is shown in the game she is waking up for a bad dream, and then later her bad dreams are shown throughout the game.

Again, this isn't subtle shit that flys over your head. It's just apparent you have no idea what you're talking about.

It took four years to track him down, yes. As in, she didn't sit around for 46 months and then google it one day, this was a constant sustained act of will for four years. My exact point.

I'm so sick of pompous dilettantes that decide to stan some completely banal story and just swan about like "oh it's too sophisticated for you" when the easily poked holes get poked.