Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Bigbazz]

I remember when Overwatch was in beta and I criticised the whole idea of using random rewards from lootboxes and how I hated it, because traditionally games had rewarded you for feats, predictable milestones or overcoming challenges... I said how it was going to lead from one thing to another and I got criticised and ridiculed by some people as overexaggerating.

Turned out that Overwatch was one of the biggest influencers in the industry going that direction on the large scale. I mean by comparison to other games Overwatch is more tastefully done, but one thing leads to another and one thing did lead to another. Finally lootboxes are considered gambling, and people are acknowledging these skinnerbox mechanics and companies rinsing players through gambling strategies.

Question is, what worse thing will they replace it with when regulations change?

[Saltysquidoon]

Loot boxes you can buy directly are gambling. Loot boxes you get access to through the (probably intentionally legal) obfuscation of a 'season pass' are at least predatory business practices.

[Zeek Daniels]

Loot boxes you can buy directly are gambling. Loot boxes you get access to through the (probably intentionally legal) obfuscation of a 'season pass' are at least predatory business practices.

Trading cards are gambling. Claw machine is gambling. Suprise boxes for kids are gambling. All of these are predatory business practices.

[Saltysquidoon]

Trading cards are gambling. Claw machine is gambling. Suprise boxes for kids are gambling. All of these are predatory business practices.

Yes, but also, yes.

[Stormdash]

Parenting just isn't an option here, huh?

[Elim Garak]

As someone who works in gamedev I can say that loot boxes are a predatory business practice but it's not gambling.

[Saltysquidoon]

Parenting just isn't an option here, huh?

Seeing as gambling is a behaviour usually reserved to adults I'm not sure how parenting factors in here.

[Okacz]

As someone who works in gamedev I can say that loot boxes are a predatory business practice but it's not gambling.

Why wouldn't they be gambling? If you can pay real money for a chance for a desired result, well, that does seem like gambling to me. Same mechanism as any other in that category.

But I agree about the scummy business practice. Those things can shift the balance of a game, since they are designed to be purchased, redirecting some of the game flow from, well, gameplay, to the lootboxes themselves. And 99% of the time they are targeted at either kids or people addicted to throwing dice.

[ldev]

Trading cards are gambling. Claw machine is gambling. Suprise boxes for kids are gambling. All of these are predatory business practices.

Either me is getting /r/whooosh or you are /r/selfawarewolves

[Elim Garak]

Why wouldn't they be gambling? If you can pay real money for a chance for a desired result, well, that does seem like gambling to me. Same mechanism as any other in that category.

You always get something and you know beforehand what you might get and it's not money, you don't buy lootboxes to get more money. It's a mystery bag. You buy it not knowing what you get exactly but you do know it's not money and you do know you won't get anything worth more than what you have paid and it won't be money.

In gambling, you lose money if you don't win and your possible reward is money and you gamble to gain MORE money. That's the hook. Easy money. Lootboxes don't give you anything that has any worth in real life.

[Aliven]

Parenting just isn't an option here, huh?

Thats why those games should be labeled as intended for 18+ audience, so parenting could be easier due to better informent parents.

[AeneasBK]

Have a bigger issue with the "discount bundles" than lootboxes in and of themselves. Buy one for a quid, no harm no foul, but when they tempt you to spend £50 so that you get 60 lootboxes, or spend £200 for 250! or £1000 and get 1500 Lootboxes!!!!! is where it gets shitty.

I'm probably totally wrong but I always figured it was those options that allowed for some twat to spend $XXX XXX of their parents money on a video game.

[Aliven]

You always get something and you know beforehand what you might get and it's not money, you don't buy lootboxes to get more money. It's a mystery bag. You buy it not knowing what you get exactly but you do know it's not money and you do know you won't get anything worth more than what you have paid and it won't be money.

In gambling, you lose money if you don't win and your possible reward is money and you gamble to gain MORE money. That's the hook. Easy money. Lootboxes don't give you anything that has any worth in real life.

Hook is randomized reward, propably the reward with highest value = value not need to be monetary, just something the person playing want. That could be skins, money, in game money or really, whatever, even bragging rights to siblings. Problem is that the system is designed the way to keep playing using psychological tricks and, quite frankly, abusing human psyche.

Sadly, people are emotional and irrational bunch and we act according to that, we are not rational and logical.

- - - Updated - - -

Have a bigger issue with the "discount bundles" than lootboxes in and of themselves. Buy one for a quid, no harm no foul, but when they tempt you to spend £50 so that you get 60 lootboxes, or spend £200 for 250! or £1000 and get 1500 Lootboxes!!!!! is where it gets shitty.

I'm probably totally wrong but I always figured it was those options that allowed for some twat to spend $XXX XXX of their parents money on a video game.

Not really, people love discounts, so, if you want to have them spending you create awesome "discount" (not really bu hey) and then they buy because hey, it is a discount after all, even if the value of said discount/price/items is completly abstract.

Discount is discount - we love them, if you dont believe google JC Penny effect.

[Saltysquidoon]

In gambling, you lose money if you don't win and your possible reward is money and you gamble to gain MORE money. That's the hook. Easy money. Lootboxes don't give you anything that has any worth in real life.

I mean isn't that the exact situation with CS:GO that opened this pandora's box (pardon the pun).

[AeneasBK]

Not really, people love discounts, so, if you want to have them spending you create awesome "discount" (not really bu hey) and then they buy because hey, it is a discount after all, even if the value of said discount/price/items is completly abstract.

Discount is discount - we love them, if you dont believe google JC Penny effect.

Yes. I think they are using that 'love of discounts' to get people to spend a vast amount more than they need to, in order to get their "gamble fix" or w/e the psychological reaction is; by making the discount bundles exponentially large. I think that's shitty.

[Stormdash]

Seeing as gambling is a behaviour usually reserved to adults I'm not sure how parenting factors in here.

Well the way gambling interacts with adulthood is called "consent", for one thing. For another thing, parenting is how you control kids doing it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Huh... I wonder how this'll affect GW2 and their Black Lion chests... o.O

[Saltysquidoon]

Well the way gambling interacts with adulthood is called "consent", for one thing. For another thing, parenting is how you control kids doing it.

But outlets who purvey age-restricted goods or activities have an active duty to ensure they don't sell to underage people. No one blames parenting when it comes out the local liquor store hasn't been abiding by id requirements.

[Mardux]

I remember when Overwatch was in beta and I criticised the whole idea of using random rewards from lootboxes and how I hated it, because traditionally games had rewarded you for feats, predictable milestones or overcoming challenges... I said how it was going to lead from one thing to another and I got criticised and ridiculed by some people as overexaggerating.

Turned out that Overwatch was one of the biggest influencers in the industry going that direction on the large scale. I mean by comparison to other games Overwatch is more tastefully done, but one thing leads to another and one thing did lead to another. Finally lootboxes are considered gambling, and people are acknowledging these skinnerbox mechanics and companies rinsing players through gambling strategies.

Question is, what worse thing will they replace it with when regulations change?

You probably werent ridiculed for that seeing as it's been pretty common knowledge since the inception of loot boxes of what they would lead to.

[Elim Garak]

Hook is randomized reward, propably the reward with highest value = value not need to be monetary, just something the person playing want. That could be skins, money, in game money or really, whatever, even bragging rights to siblings. Problem is that the system is designed the way to keep playing using psychological tricks and, quite frankly, abusing human psyche.

We are not talking about hooks of lootboxes but rather if they are gambling - they are not. Gambling requires a monetary or a valuable (an asset that can be converted into money) reward, reward that is valuable in real life. When people buy a loot box to get an in-game item - they know they are not getting anything worth anything in real life. They want it - but they are not expecting it to be worth anything. They want it for vanity.

This is not gambling. The hooks of lootboxes are not different than "sale" and "discount" hooks or simple ads. They are psychological and predatory - but not gambling.