horrible horrific vision concept...

[vsb]

Horrific visions should have been nerfed or made non-mandatory. It's not that hard, but it's hard enough so you must pay full attention and it's repetitive enough that all the fun sucked after 50-th run and you need 150 more each taking 30 minutes.

Cloak progress should somewhat nerf those visions, so you could in the end just pull the entire zone and aoe it down along with bosses in a 5 minutes. That would be fun.

[munkeyinorbit]

Visions are horrible... but I still do a weekly 5 mask on 6 characters for 470 gear.

My biggest issue with them however, are some of the combos we face. I can 5 mask clear with no orbs used and cheat death still available... I can also get stun locked from full sanity to zero, proc cheat death, still stunlocked, zero sanity, dead by making a single mistake on trash.

It’s very class/spec dependant but some of the double madness combos, in tight areas, with the certain mobs can just be a cluster.

Yes yes, git gud. Doesn’t mean the content isn’t poorly designed.

Having large amounts of rng is poor design. Being in control of what happens isn't. You should never be in a situation that you die during a stun. If you do then that is bad play. Stop being a bad and blaming rng where it is clear that dying like that is your fault alone.

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Easy fix: failed run spawns a box that gives you back the vessel but if you take it you can't open the normal boxes.

So you want to be rewarded for failing a LFR level instance? Seems legit. An even easier fix is to top being bad.

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Just had my first 5 mask Vision wipe in Stormwind. So I use a Heroic Leap on cursor position macro, you just point where you wanna go and it leaps without needing to position and click the circle. Well I targeted a bridge with an eye on it, same thing I've done countless times.. It leaps me into the water just infront of the bridge, get into combat with the eye and also the walls are too high to jump out and I just died, unable to move away with a grasping tendril as the icing on the cake.

Stuff like this is annoying, Heroic leap goes wonky and an entire 25min run is lost, a 460 item in the bin and losing 2000+ momentos. Could never have predicted something like that in a million years.

I don't see what is annoying about bad gameplay. You fucked up. You should have the whole run binned. It's not the games fault that you don't know how to use a mouse properly.

[ymirsson]

Having large amounts of rng is poor design. Being in control of what happens isn't. You should never be in a situation that you die during a stun. If you do then that is bad play. Stop being a bad and blaming rng where it is clear that dying like that is your fault alone.

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So you want to be rewarded for failing a LFR level instance? Seems legit. An even easier fix is to top being bad.

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I don't see what is annoying about bad gameplay. You fucked up. You should have the whole run binned. It's not the games fault that you don't know how to use a mouse properly.

5 masks is LFR level? you sure are a munkeyinorbit.

Also, "using a mouse properly" has nothing to do with WoW's fucked up geography detection.

[Bigbazz]

Having large amounts of rng is poor design. Being in control of what happens isn't. You should never be in a situation that you die during a stun. If you do then that is bad play. Stop being a bad and blaming rng where it is clear that dying like that is your fault alone.

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So you want to be rewarded for failing a LFR level instance? Seems legit. An even easier fix is to top being bad.

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I don't see what is annoying about bad gameplay. You fucked up. You should have the whole run binned. It's not the games fault that you don't know how to use a mouse properly.

How did I fuck up? I jumped on to a bridge using a spell that was targeted, the game should have given me a no path but it literally leaped into the water. This isn't normal behaviour, not something that would happen in a million years normally. Normally you cannot leap from a platform into water, it would give no path available. And normal if you click the bridge and no path is available it won't leap.

Usually I make that leap every time, for some reason this time it put me in the water (as in it jumped and made a big huff of dirt on landing, but landed on top of the water). At that point I have no control over the situation, nor did I have any control over putting myself into that situation since it's not something you can predict. In hindsight I can know "don't leap there, it can bug".. This is no different from for example a mob knocking you back into terrain where you get stuck, you have no control over that.

So no, I objectively did not fuck up. The game fucked up and I got punished for it.


Also : Even though you didn't address me. 5 mask at low ilvl is harder than mythic raiding, at high ilvl it's easy and casual.. I mean it's pretty dumb to attribute a difficulty here when difficulty is relative to gear. If numbers were higher 5 mask would be the toughest content in game currently, on a par with high M+.

[Kehego]

How did I fuck up? I jumped on to a bridge using a spell that was targeted, the game should have given me a no path but it literally leaped into the water. This isn't normal behaviour, not something that would happen in a million years normally. Normally you cannot leap from a platform into water, it would give no path available. And normal if you click the bridge and no path is available it won't leap.

Usually I make that leap every time, for some reason this time it put me in the water (as in it jumped and made a big huff of dirt on landing, but landed on top of the water). At that point I have no control over the situation, nor did I have any control over putting myself into that situation since it's not something you can predict. In hindsight I can know "don't leap there, it can bug".. This is no different from for example a mob knocking you back into terrain where you get stuck, you have no control over that.

So no, I objectively did not fuck up. The game fucked up and I got punished for it.

Sounds like you put your crosshair in the wrong position lmao

[Bigbazz]

Sounds like you put your crosshair in the wrong position lmao

That's not possible. Leap has rules and usually only works in very specific positioning, in this case it broke the rules in a way that is difficult if not impossible to replicate. I've tried to replicate it, not been able to.

[Gaidax]

That's not possible. Leap has rules and usually only works in very specific positioning, in this case it broke the rules in a way that is difficult if not impossible to replicate. I've tried to replicate it, not been able to.

I just did it with my warrior, you have plenty of spots in Stormwind where you can leap into water and that bridge is there too.

Don't mouseover click random shit and you won't have issues. Not game's fault you spazzed out with mouse - leap will work if target is legit for it and there is no hard rule about water there either.

[Bigbazz]

I just did it with my warrior, you have plenty of spots in Stormwind where you can leap into water and that bridge is there too.

Don't mouseover click random shit and you won't have issues. Not game's fault you spazzed out with mouse - leap will work if target is legit for it and there is no hard rule about water there either.

I hate when people do this, that is they tell other people what they did. "Tellin you bro, it's your own fault".. Yet you also have no idea what I'm talking about, where in SW it happened, haven't seen any footage and don't know my route. You can't take my word for it? I somehow have my mouse targetting a mob that is on a bridge, doing a leap I've done dozens of times and I leap into the water?

I can't replicate it, tried it loads of times at worst it leaps me to the edge of the bridge or doesn't leap at all. The only way to leap into the water is to clearly click on the water, from a very specific spot and angle and where you land nowhere near where I landed (which was mid-air, with a huff of dirt as if I'd landed on land, but above the water, right at the edge of the bridge).

I did not come to the thread with any doubt in my mind what just took place, so I'm definitely not looking for anyone who is going to take my misfortune and use it to say "yeah fuck you noob".

[Gaidax]

I hate when people do this, that is they tell other people what they did. "Tellin you bro, it's your own fault".. Yet you also have no idea what I'm talking about, where in SW it happened, haven't seen any footage and don't know my route. You can't take my word for it? I somehow have my mouse targetting a mob that is on a bridge, doing a leap I've done dozens of times and I leap into the water?

I can't replicate it, tried it loads of times at worst it leaps me to the edge of the bridge or doesn't leap at all. The only way to leap into the water is to clearly click on the water, from a very specific spot and angle and where you land nowhere near where I landed (which was mid-air, with a huff of dirt as if I'd landed on land, but above the water, right at the edge of the bridge).

I did not come to the thread with any doubt in my mind what just took place, so I'm definitely not looking for anyone who is going to take my misfortune and use it to say "yeah fuck you noob".

I mean... breh...

There are not million bridges with eyebois on them there. I went to 2 of them and in 1 of them I was easily able to reproduce it - the one on the way to Mage Tower. You can leap into water there just fine. I literally did it just now, want a video?

You stated that it should be impossible, but it clearly is possible to do. It's not some "bug" or "game hates me and does things" - you were careless and unfortunately for you leap was valid for wherever you mouseover clicked, which was off.

That's it. Get over your horrible "misfortune".

[Kehego]

That's not possible. Leap has rules and usually only works in very specific positioning, in this case it broke the rules in a way that is difficult if not impossible to replicate. I've tried to replicate it, not been able to.

I do it on my warrior and I never fucked it up, so I dunno.
I just kill the eyestalk too, cus being pepega and failing < taking 5 secs to burst a mob

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I mean... breh...

There are not million bridges with eyebois on them there. I went to 2 of them and in 1 of them I was easily able to reproduce it - the one on the way to Mage Tower. You can leap into water there just fine. I literally did it just now, want a video?

You stated that it should be impossible, but it clearly is possible to do. It's not some "bug" or "game hates me and does things" - you were careless and unfortunately for you leap was valid for wherever you mouseover clicked, which was off.

That's it. Get over your horrible "misfortune".

I didn't fuck up, the game bugged out!

[Bigbazz]

I do it on my warrior and I never fucked it up, so I dunno.

Well prior to that run I could say the same, and I've been clearing 5 masks on 2 Warriors (I use one for sockets, one for mount) several times a week for a while now. And I literally have my mouse clicked on the mob since I target the mob at the same time as I leap... Man I just hope one day it happens to you and then you can come to MMO champ and someone can tell you how wrong you are and you get to feel like "oh thanks for the support".

This isn't the first time either, I remember dying to a raid boss a few years back and being asked why I fucked up while I was 100ft underground clipping through the floor dying slowly from dots.. Yep my bad guys, wasn't prepared for the game to break but I appreciate your support in blaming it on me. Of course that was a guild run so nobody cared, we laughed it off.

[Kehego]

Well prior to that run I could say the same, and I've been clearing 5 masks on 2 Warriors (I use one for sockets, one for mount) several times a week for a while now. And I literally have my mouse clicked on the mob since I target the mob at the same time as I leap... Man I just hope one day it happens to you and then you can come to MMO champ and someone can tell you how wrong you are and you get to feel like "oh thanks for the support".

This isn't the first time either, I remember dying to a raid boss a few years back and being asked why I fucked up while I was 100ft underground clipping through the floor dying slowly from dots.. Yep my bad guys, wasn't prepared for the game to break but I appreciate your support in blaming it on me. Of course that was a guild run so nobody cared, we laughed it off.

if it happened to me I'd laugh it off and just run another vision because it aint that serious. def not gonna cry about failing a vision on the internet

[Bigbazz]

if it happened to me I'd laugh it off and just run another vision because it aint that serious. def not gonna cry about failing a vision on the internet

It's a thread about the visions? We're on the forums to talk about the game, our opinions and experiences? I've had a lot of annoyances in visions, getting stuck in terrain/scenery after the hot foot thing and having the camera spaz out, or the annoying combinations of RNG (specifically with the knockback mobs in orgrimmar). But that was actually my first death/wipe, imagine your first fail is you die in a fucking canal with an eyeball shooting at you, helpless.

If visions were tuned to be difficult I can tell you people would be absolutely furious regularly, but Blizzard tuned them to be clearable in low ilvl and so they are just this annoying content you gotta grind every week. Either way, I have done a bunch more visions since then, I no longer leap to the bridge.

[Kehego]

It's a thread about the visions? We're on the forums to talk about the game, our opinions and experiences? I've had a lot of annoyances in visions, getting stuck in terrain/scenery after the hot foot thing and having the camera spaz out, or the annoying combinations of RNG (specifically with the knockback mobs in orgrimmar). But that was actually my first death/wipe, imagine your first fail is you die in a fucking canal with an eyeball shooting at you, helpless.

If visions were tuned to be difficult I can tell you people would be absolutely furious regularly, but Blizzard tuned them to be clearable in low ilvl and so they are just this annoying content you gotta grind every week. Either way, I have done a bunch more visions since then, I no longer leap to the bridge.

there is no rng in visions

[Bigbazz]

there is no rng in visions

Split Personality - It is telegraphed, but the exact timing and position is not. You never know where the opening is going to be, and unless you stand around a lot and waste time you can never be sure you're going to have an exit. You're lying if you tell me you've never been trapped next to a wall due to split. It's not a problem by itself because you can just stand still. On some terrain some of them don't animate (either at all or they are invisible) example mage tower spiral, or when placed over bridges (orgrimmar).

Haunting Shadows - It's a fear, it randomly spawns under you and telegraphs... Which is fine and easy to avoid, unless of course you are trapped or stunned, it can and does happen at the same time as split personality.


The Void Hulk in Orgrimmar that does a knockback and then leaps to the position? It's possible for the Void Hulk to do his knockback the very instant your split personality comes up and you get knocked into it. On top of that you could also get a haunted shadows. Infact you could even get knocked next to the building, have a split personality drop on top of your head with the exit blocked off by the building and then have a fear drop on top of that so you'd eat it all without an immune (like bladestorm) to escape.

The pack of mobs before Rexxar... Sometimes you just dps them down, sometimes you get knocked back instantly as soon as you touch the mob, or sometimes towards the end. Either way that pack of mobs has a knockback, if you happen to be fighting them and a knockback happens at the same moment as split personality, well then you're gonna be eating it.

Edit : Dark Imagination spawns - There seems to be an internal cooldown, but the spawn time is not consistent. I've been out of combat, leaped to Alleria just about to drop an orb and realise I'm in combat... Run back out of combat range and then 10 seconds later here he comes.. You can't predict when he's gonna come, only that he probably will eventually and that varies a lot.


I mean there are so many instances of "if all these mechanics happen at the same time we're gonna be in trouble" and the only reason it's not a bigger problem is because the dungeon is balanced to be clearable on an ilvl440 and where eating mechanics mostly doesn't matter. Saying there is nothing random is silly because mechanics are only predictable when they are by themselves.

[Kehego]

Split Personality - It is telegraphed, but the exact timing and position is not. You never know where the opening is going to be, and unless you stand around a lot and waste time you can never be sure you're going to have an exit. You're lying if you tell me you've never been trapped next to a wall due to split. It's not a problem by itself because you can just stand still. On some terrain some of them don't animate (either at all or they are invisible) example mage tower spiral, or when placed over bridges (orgrimmar).

Haunting Shadows - It's a fear, it randomly spawns under you and telegraphs... Which is fine and easy to avoid, unless of course you are trapped or stunned, it can and does happen at the same time as split personality.


The Void Hulk in Orgrimmar that does a knockback and then leaps to the position? It's possible for the Void Hulk to do his knockback the very instant your split personality comes up and you get knocked into it. On top of that you could also get a haunted shadows. Infact you could even get knocked next to the building, have a split personality drop on top of your head with the exit blocked off by the building and then have a fear drop on top of that so you'd eat it all without an immune (like bladestorm) to escape.

The pack of mobs before Rexxar... Sometimes you just dps them down, sometimes you get knocked back instantly as soon as you touch the mob, or sometimes towards the end. Either way that pack of mobs has a knockback, if you happen to be fighting them and a knockback happens at the same moment as split personality, well then you're gonna be eating it.

I mean there are so many instances of "if all these mechanics happen at the same time we're gonna be in trouble" and the only reason it's not a bigger problem is because the dungeon is balanced to be clearable on an ilvl440 and where eating mechanics mostly doesn't matter. Saying there is nothing random is silly because mechanics are only predictable when they are by themselves.

lol, there is absolutely no randomness in visions.

there are mechanics you deal with, or dont deal with

the pack of mobs before rexxar has a mob that does a cast called "headbutt" the big black beetle that detects stealth... stun it or kill it before it gets the cast off
you can stand in positions to make the voidcrazed hulk never punt you
haunted shadows is a free affix

so yeah anyway there is no rng in visions. bad players do use rng as an excuse for dying, though

[Bigbazz]

lol, there is absolutely no randomness in visions.

there are mechanics you deal with, or dont deal with

the pack of mobs before rexxar has a mob that does a cast called "headbutt"... stun it or kill it before it gets the cast off
you can stand in positions to make the voidcrazed hulk never punt you
haunted shadows is a free affix

so yeah anyway there is no rng in visions. bad players do use rng as an excuse for dying, though

I just explained to you where there is RNG. I literally explained to you exactly how RNG exists and you ignored it and said there is no RNG. That's like me saying "it's not raining outside, because I'm wearing a coat".. And bad players using RNG as an excuse for dying is a funny one since most of the people complaining about these mechanics are clearing it with ease. I've never wiped in Orgrimmar, yet I'm using it as an example.

You realise the mob before Rexxar that does the knockback is the large elite, it's an instant cast and he can use it as his very first ability? The stun is a separate ability from taking 5 stacks of the poison (which you often will if you get knocked back)... When the elite does the knockback is the important part, since if your dps isn't high enough to kill it before the split personality well guess what, you can headbutted into your split. And guess what, if you're not overgearing you're probably not instagibbing this pack.

Seems you don't even know the mechanics yet you're confident about there being no RNG. I'd love to see how skillful your runs look and compare them with my own too.

[Kehego]

I just explained to you where there is RNG. I literally explained to you exactly how RNG exists and you ignored it and said there is no RNG. That's like me saying "it's not raining outside, because I'm wearing a coat".. And bad players using RNG as an excuse for dying is a funny one since most of the people complaining about these mechanics are clearing it with ease. I've never wiped in Orgrimmar, yet I'm using it as an example.

You realise the mob before Rexxar that does the knockback is the large elite, it's an instant cast and he can use it as his very first ability? The stun is a separate ability from taking 5 stacks of the poison (which you often will if you get knocked back)... When the elite does the knockback is the important part, since if your dps isn't high enough to kill it before the split personality well guess what, you can headbutted into your split.

Seems you don't even know the mechanics yet you're confident about there being no RNG. I'd love to see how skillful your runs look and compare them with my own too.

the red mob only charges you if you start attacking it and aren't in melee range
the stun only happens when you take 5 stacks of the poison
the black beetle (there are 2 of them) headbutts you

You don't know the mechanics lol. there's no rng in visions

[Bigbazz]

the red mob only charges you if you start attacking it and aren't in melee range
the stun only happens when you take 5 stacks of the poison
the black beetle (there are 2 of them) headbutts you

You don't know the mechanics lol. there's no rng in visions

Ok man cool - https://www.wowhead.com/spell=298488/headbutt - There is the spell, from the bonecrusher (the large one).. But cool you know the mechanics.. Yeah come back to me when you can explain how there isn't RNG in the RNG.

[Very Tired]

I just explained to you where there is RNG. I literally explained to you exactly how RNG exists and you ignored it and said there is no RNG. That's like me saying "it's not raining outside, because I'm wearing a coat".. And bad players using RNG as an excuse for dying is a funny one since most of the people complaining about these mechanics are clearing it with ease. I've never wiped in Orgrimmar, yet I'm using it as an example.

You realise the mob before Rexxar that does the knockback is the large elite, it's an instant cast and he can use it as his very first ability? The stun is a separate ability from taking 5 stacks of the poison (which you often will if you get knocked back)... When the elite does the knockback is the important part, since if your dps isn't high enough to kill it before the split personality well guess what, you can headbutted into your split. And guess what, if you're not overgearing you're probably not instagibbing this pack.

Seems you don't even know the mechanics yet you're confident about there being no RNG. I'd love to see how skillful your runs look and compare them with my own too.

The trick for that pack is to put your back up against a wall. No distance traveled from the headbutt equals no stun from split personality. Also pop whatever defensive abilities you have because, yeah, that's actually the most dangerous pull in Org. You don't need defensives for Rexxar, health isn't an issue in that fight.

On top if that, if you're worried about split personality being a hassle during the mobs, you can just wait until it procs then pull the pack. Should be plenty of time to at least kill the smaller adds and secure your safety.