Masks

[Zantos]

You’re still talking about the effectiveness of protecting yourself, which is not the purpose of the masks they’re advocating for.

No, im talking about the effectiveness of protecting others. The studies were all done about stopping or slowing the spread of a virus.

And.....helping reduce is bad? I’m not understanding what point you’re trying to make.

CDC website says to wear a mask, and goes in to specifics of why and what types. What part of their website is giving you the impression that their stance is “only wear good masks, otherwise don’t bother.”

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...recent-studies

That is the part of the website that they use to give "evidence" that cloth mask mandate is good. The very last few studies are what you're after. Read em. Very enlightening. That is where you find the information that they need Multiple layers or a filter, as well as to be tight fitting, to really have any impact of helping to slow the spread.

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Again they did?
Where?

I keep hearing this from multiple people and postings yet no where does the CDC say that from what I can see of their web pages.


at best they tell you:
Cloth face coverings should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.


Everything I have read and all advice from doctors so far has been to try the mask and try to find one that works for your current level of asthma if possible.


individuals who may regularly experience difficulty breathing due to conditions including asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or emphysema are nonetheless encouraged to wear face coverings upon leaving their homes, despite the potential difficulties they pose, because of their increased vulnerability to the coronavirus.


Funny thing is if you search google for asthma mask and make the date 2019 you will find thousands of articles and places selling mask to help asthma sufferers during allergy and flu season...but now its all of a sudden a great excuse not to wear one.

As you stated on your own, if you have difficulty breathing, you are advised Not to wear one by the CDC. Then you say you should, nonetheless, wear one? Not how it works. You get a mask that lets someone who has issues breathing that is made of a material that lets them breath, you have a mask that is different in its effective levels.

Just doing a quick google research, the mask types I see recommended for someone who can't breath are a gator neck one, and a bandana. You'll find both of these types Highly ineffective to prevent the spread since they are loose fitting and not capable of blocking the virus well, if at all.

I get it. People are angry that those who can hardly breath don't want to wear a mask. That being said, we need to be realistic. Anything that will allow them to breath well is not going to be effective at stopping them from spreading covid if their sick. That is the reality of it. Wear one. By all means. However, regardless of having a mask, I am not going to pretend their some catch all or even that great at reducing it. Its basically a situation of throwing everything they can at it, even if it helps Just a little, because our country can't manage to get it under control while the rest of the world is returning to normal and blocking us from going there.

They need a lot more than masks to get this under control. Even if a study I can find, they only help by Maybe 2% reduction. A point thats moot with the opening up and lessening of other restrictions.


Video is very informative. Highlights that masks are useless if you still wont social distance. Testing that shows most masks will still allow you to spread to within a foot. These are meant to be used with social distancing. Not alone. A point a lot of people don't grasp.

[Gaidax]

I bought a bunch. Gave them away. Never wore one myself. I'd rather get sick and build immunity to it.

You, of course, realize that dying is the least of the problems there?

Nobody posting in these forums would die from it, but complications with long lasting consequences can happen. For example there is a 24 years old guy locally who caught it, it ended up being moderately severe, got through it, but for some reason as a consequence his blood pressure went up and he is now on blood pressure pills like some 70 years old and nobody can tell him whether that will go away or stay forever.

It's really dumb to risk it. I also for the moment in the beginning thought "lulz bring it on, I'll go over it and be immune", but then the reports of consequences and side effects started piling in and it increasingly became a dumb idea - last thing I need is damaging my health to the point where I need to chug gramps pills to go on with my day.

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So yeah, I'd rather inconvenience myself with masks and other measures the next half a year to 9 months until vaccine is available, instead of fucking myself over for the rest of the 60 years or however I have left.

[PosPosPos]

I would never get that far. I'm basically never sick and I doubt a bit harsher cold would do much damage to me. Which I most likely already had, just that the antibody test couldn't find any antibodies since I had a very mind condition.
I did develop a nasty pollen allergy after that which lasted for a couple of weeks.
Back to being healthy as a horse as they say.

You don't seem to understand it's not just about you, it's about those around you.

But then again, I have seen enough sociopaths to know about them and what they think about others for a long time now.

[MCMLXXXII]

Don't wear them since I never use public transportation which is the only place they are mandatory.

[Strawberry]

You don't seem to understand it's not just about you, it's about those around you.

But then again, I have seen enough sociopaths to know about them and what they think about others for a long time now.

Developing immunity to it IS HOW YOU DEAL WITH IT.
You don't go around protecting yourself and then you catch it without knowing what it is and then infect everyone around you. Dumbass.
Covid-19 can be found anywhere from food to various things and air droplets.

[Aucald]

I wear a 2-layer cloth mask when I go out, which is as seldom as possible given the current conditions. Basically it's just to get groceries or deliveries, as I'm currently working from home. I try to observe social distancing as much as possible as well. We have several cases of COVID-19 in and around my area though the central metro area is still pretty much a no-go zone.

[formerShandalay]

For the relevance of masks I have seen a nice video about it




I wear a mask when I go to public places, like a grocery store or to see a doctor. I personally don't see a problem with masks and it seems most people around here don't either.

[shadowmouse]

I got the KN95 masks today and found them much more comfortable than the old 3M masks I had been using.

[Katchii]

No, im talking about the effectiveness of protecting others. The studies were all done about stopping or slowing the spread of a virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...recent-studies

That is the part of the website that they use to give "evidence" that cloth mask mandate is good. The very last few studies are what you're after. Read em. Very enlightening. That is where you find the information that they need Multiple layers or a filter, as well as to be tight fitting, to really have any impact of helping to slow the spread.

First, two of the sources you're trying to cite directly contradict what you're trying to say.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/

and

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....19.20071779v1

Both say that wearing masks, both surgical and basic cloth masks (between the two studies) are effective at preventing the spread of droplets and therefore effective at spreading the spread of the virus.

So, what source are you looking at that says the cloth masks are simply ineffective at helping to prevent the spread of the virus? I'm not talking about filtering the virus itself, most masks can't do that, the virus is too small and requires insane levels of filtering the vast majority of masks don't do. The good thing though is that the virus isn't being spread alone, it has to ride on droplets of water and duct particles, which are EASILY filtered by simple masks, even basic cloth with with a single layer.

The one you seem to be citing:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/

Just seems to be saying that loose cloth is less effective than tight knit cloth and that certain combinations of cloth are more effective due to differences in mechanical and electro-static properties of the materials. Nowhere in that article does it advocate for NOT wearing a mask or say that wearing one of these less effective masks is just as bad or worse than not wearing one at all.

You are still not answering the question though. Nowhere on their website are they advocating to NOT wear a mask unless the mask is a good one, with a filter, multiple layers, or whatnot. So why are you trying to cite the CDC site as a source to support your stance of not wearing one because they aren't as effective as "real" masks.

The stance the CDC has is "every little bit helps" and provide sources for that specific stance. You're stance is, if it's not going to help by "X%" it's not worth it so I won't wear one. Sorry, but I'm going to side with the CDC on this one.

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I bought a bunch. Gave them away. Never wore one myself. I'd rather get sick and build immunity to it.

Do some research about it before looking like an idiot.

Wearing masks is not about protecting yourself from the virus, only very specific types of masks are designed to do that and most of those aren't even readily available to the public.

Wearing the masks being advocated by the CDC, WHO and others is about helping prevent and reduce the aerosols you give off by breathing, talking, etc.. that would be the carriers of the virus from spreading to other people.

So, it's not about protecting YOU it's about protecting others FROM you because one of the hallmarks of this virus is that people can spread it without even showing symptoms of the virus.

[Zantos]

You are still not answering the question though. Nowhere on their website are they advocating to NOT wear a mask unless the mask is a good one, with a filter, multiple layers, or whatnot. So why are you trying to cite the CDC site as a source to support your stance of not wearing one because they aren't as effective as "real" masks.

The stance the CDC has is "every little bit helps" and provide sources for that specific stance. You're stance is, if it's not going to help by "X%" it's not worth it so I won't wear one. Sorry, but I'm going to side with the CDC on this one.

I answered your question, as did you. They said if you have trouble breathing, Don't wear one. Its in English right there. Asthmatics have trouble breathing at times, shocking I know. If a mask creates a problem in breathing, the CDC says to not wear one. They offer tips as to what to do to see if you can wear a mask safely, such as practicing at home, but they do clearly say if you cannot breath well enough in them, to not wear one. Like it or not, its literally their 4th bullet point. Right at the very top. If that isn't clear enough, go to their Big, Bold section labeled "who should not wear a cloth face covering". A second time stated that if you have trouble breathing, you shouldn't wear a mask.

Second of hall, the first link you have Only covers surgical masks. Their entire study was around that type. That one does not support or go against face masks. They were studying surgical masks specifically to determine if they are effective against this type of disease.

The second link states something very key. That the way the masks are made, as well as proper use of them, is paramount. They also state that a loose mask leads to a false sense of security since the droplets can still come and go through the sides.

Not sure what else there is to say. Wearing a Proper fitting mask, using it in a responsible way, AND still following all of the other guidelines can help. However, a mask alone Will not cut it. If they are still within 2 feet of you, you can still cough it that far. As shown in the study of the video I linked. If it has a loose fit, you're still spraying it out of the sides, so anyone to your right or left is screwed. If you're fidgeting with the mask repeatedly, you're covering your hand in the viral load that has been trapped in the mask. Then you're cross contaminating everything you touch.

These are the problems with the masks. People Don't know how to use them properly. They Don't continue to follow the other guidelines. They Don't have masks that fit properly to be of any use. At that point, its just as bad as not having a mask to begin with.

Argue all you want, these are the facts that every study finds. Just as with any other protective equipment, if you're not using it right, you severely reduce its impact, if not negate it all together. Personally, I'll take my chance over the guy who stays 6 feet away and washes their hands over the guy playing with their bandana face mask.

[The Butt Witch]

Food?

- Currently, there is no evidence to suggest that handling food or consuming food is associated with COVID-19.

- The risk of getting COVID-19 from food you cook yourself or from handling and consuming food from restaurants and takeout or drive-thru meals is thought to be very low. Currently, there is no evidence that food is associated with spreading the virus that causes COVID-19.

- The risk of infection by the virus from food products, food packaging, or bags is thought to be very low. Currently, no cases of COVID-19 have been identified where infection was thought to have occurred by touching food, food packaging, or shopping bags.

- Although some people who work in food production and processing facilities have gotten COVID-19, there is no evidence of the virus spreading to consumers through the food or packaging that workers in these facilities may have handled.

- The virus that causes COVID-19 cannot grow on food. Although bacteria can grow on food, a virus requires a living host like a person or an animal to multiply.

- Currently, there is no evidence that the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads to people through food. However, it is important to safely handle and continue to cook foods to their recommended cooking temperaturesexternal icon to prevent foodborne illness.

- The virus that causes COVID-19 has not been found in drinking water. The Environmental Protection Agency regulates water treatment plants to ensure that treated water is safe to drink.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-COVID-19.html

I'm using common sense. Why would the virus not be on food? The surface of food is not a disinfectant. Sick people can sneeze on your food, can breathe on your food, can even touch your food, so why wouldn't it stay on food?

Sure, the food that is sealed in a container (like a can or bag), hot or you thermo process it yourself, is being disinfected in the process, but what about fast food? What about fruit? Basically any food or beverage that you consume as is?

[Rozz]

Continue the discussion in the mega-thread.