Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Elegiac]

I'm still trying to figure out what "white fragility" even means, because from reading DiAngelo's work it seems to declare that people (and only white people at that) who explain or are convinced that they're not racists are actually the root cause of systemic racism. Which is a pretty dumb argument in the same vein of proving that gnomes exist because they're invisible and the fact you haven't seen any just proves that they're invisible and thus real.

The US police does need reform, and while people like to attribute this to systemic racism caused by some invisible unconscious collective will, I think the answer is a lot more straightforward than that: some of the US police force are consciously and willingly supporters or members of White supremacy groups and organizations. Let's address that first before we start asking random non-racist people to self-flagellate for their invisible sins.

You know instead of trying to ban statues or proposing 1% budget cuts, I mean, you can do those things too, but don't leave it at that allowing the KKK to be a part of your police force, allowing the police to remain militarized with a license to kill, and then distracting people with some radical theories and workshops about subconscious racism.

Giving yourself a pat on the back for your radical theory on "White Fragility" while simultaneously doing -nothing- about black people getting killed by police is perhaps the most obvious form of structural white racism I can imagine...

"White Fragility" describes a phenomenon of defensiveness when confronted with having to self-reflect and/or consider one's complicity in a greater structure of systemic racism and points out that is a symptom of the fact racism is not a function of "a few evil people" but is in fact a social system that requires buy in by both the ruling class and the greater part of society. That's all.

This might seem a 'no duh' concept, but the fact that people like Robin DiAngelo and Jane Elliot receive such severe pushback in their professional fields (Human Resources and education, respectively) for verbalising it and formulating their lesson/work plans with it as a basic assumption underlines how racism has insinuated itself in the cultural narrative to the point where it triggers such visceral, emotional reactions. Much in the same way that terms like "cultural appropriation" or "toxic masculinity" are by themselves neutral, but because they needle at certain cultural pillars it produces reactions like...Well, there's an entire genre of videos on the internet devoting to ranting angrily about Greta SarkeesiAngelo or whoever the fuck TheDonald and CTH's lurkers decide to hate on this week.

And as Endus pointed out, the behavior is similar to climate change denialists in that the bar for action or resolution is deliberately set at a nonsense level because the point is not actually to discuss the problem, it's to shut said discussion down. Much in the same way people bitching about White Fragility aren't actually interested in whether or not the concept exists and how that ties into the failure of previous reform efforts like Reconstruction - i.e. something you should ostensibly be interested in figuring out if you actually give a shit about something besides stirring the pot - they want to stop the discussion entirely. Hence the presence of bullshit arguments like "people could make money off this ergo it's not true", or "well so what, identifying it hasn't solved racism so I guess you're actually the racist".

[Elegiac]

Sure, while that all sounds great and everything, it comes across to me as a form of "white luxury" to be able to devote time to concepts such as these... instead of first actually addressing the real issues and direct consequences of racism at hand: a meaningful reform of the police force in the USA.

This is just plain old anti-intellectualism.

[Theodarzna]

Sure, while that all sounds great and everything, it comes across to me as a form of "white luxury" to be able to devote time to concepts such as these... instead of first actually addressing the real issues and direct consequences of racism at hand: a meaningful reform of the police force in the USA.

It feels like the fixation on HR Dianetics embracing, and or just the whole pantheon of "We must acknowledge institutional racism" is almost akin to say Sam Harris when he insisted we cannot fight terrorism without acknowledging its supposed Islamic nature. As if that was a precondition for doing anything at all. Like its a magic word or talisman that once used is key to the psychic war against the spiritual corruption that is the REAL ENEMY (TM, Buy my book and attend my seminars!). The public seemed pretty on board with even the rioting and looting given what was done to George Floyd, which to my eyes looked like a dragged out execution over the course of eight minutes.

Though I enjoy that Elegiac acknowledges the Robin DiAngelo's book is bogus but ignores that I pretty much name all of the major "Thought" leaders of this Corporate Consultancy racket.

When the problem seems to be that police are out of control in the USA and the goal is getting through some serious changes and radical reforms to the police force. Something pretty much everyone was on board with, even Trump buckling under pressure and at least in words saying we should do something. Cops harass the poor very badly, cops are extra cruel to black poor people, heck even the boogaloo boys have Ruby Ridge and Waco to justify being for this. And then suddenly it is very important that people acknowledge various shibboleths and cleanse themselves of their individual racist-Thetans that corrupt their soul. At best this is a bizarre distraction reflecting the peculiar pathologies and narcissism of certain class of credentialed office workers; at worst this is pernicious self-destruction and self-immolation of a potentially big united movement for police reform.

[Mayhem]

'NYC Shootings Doubled for Third Straight Week; Hundreds Injured in Gun Violence Spike'

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...spike/2500446/



Lmao what a mystery... NYC's police commissioner gave into fringe leftist political pressure and disbanded his 'elite' (described as such by Bill de Blasio himself) anti-crime unit dedicated to keeping illegal guns off of NYC's street. Literally instantly the amount of gun crime in NYC more than doubled and has remained that way every week since the unit was disbanded in the middle of June.

Another article says there haven't been this many shootings in June in NYC since twenty-four years ago back in 1996.

NYC needs more good guys with guns!!!

[Shalcker]

Seems to me the problem is hubris. I've never felt angry at being asked to question my assumptions.

People who provoke people for living generally do it much better then casual questions most of us encounter every day.

And when attacked on set as racist you are not allowed to defend yourself.

[Zython]

Weird, how you are ignoring how when the police went on strike last time crime overall went down.

Do you think spikes within a confined time speaks to a trend for the entire year?

You say doubled but you should really think about this because NYC has the lowest crime rate for any large city in the country. You know one of the most left cities has also has the lowest crimes rates of any large city.

Also you continue to fail to explain what fringe left means?

IN a world were capitulating for El Paso shooting isn't fringe, but this is... wow...

What I find most odd is why you're not talking about the mass shootings that are still happening across the country that have nothing to do with protests or police... why are you so silent those?

IN FACT ACROSS THE NATION GUN CRIMES SINCE CORONA VIRUS HAVE BEEN SPIKING

And this was BEFORE THE PROTEST so how do you explain this?

It seems as though the cause of this rise in shootings crimes may have something to do with the lock down and coronavirus.

IN fact some areas were spiking to double their normal shootings in march after lockdowns and different areas showed as lockdowns went into effect that shootings went up.

Now let's do a little thinking... why do most shootings happen? Who are the targets of most shootings? Why do you think lockdowns may lead to an increase in shootings?

This is across the entire nation and was taking place before any protest against police so explain.

Or was this another one of your little dog whistles?

You mean to say that 20% unemployment rate and no economic relief results in higher crime? SAY IT AIN’T SO!

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People who provoke people for living generally do it much better then casual questions most of us encounter every day.

And when attacked on set as racist you are not allowed to defend yourself.

What are they saying that’s offending you so much?

[Felya]

I'm just really concerned that currently the powers that be in the USA, both conservative and liberal, do everything within their power to distract and obfuscate any meaningful change happening where it's necessary.

What do you mean by addressing police reform in a meaningful way? Because that sounds a lot like distraction and obfuscation.

[Themius]

You mean to say that 20% unemployment rate and no economic relief results in higher crime? SAY IT AIN’T SO!

- - - Updated - - -



What are they saying that’s offending you so much?

"totally not racist" people feel offended when either other's racism is pointed out, or their own.

[Felya]

And when attacked on set as racist you are not allowed to defend yourself.

What’s the difference between “can’t” and “not allowed”?

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Your question sounds like distraction and obfuscation. :P

If you think asking for more info means the above, it just confirms my belief that you don’t actually know what you are talking about.

Meaningful change:
- making sure that immunity for prosecution on misconduct gets removed, holding officers accountable for their misdeeds
- budget cuts
- reforming the police force with an eye on community policing and de-escalation
- demilitarizing the police force (especially the riot police)
- stricter rules on bodycams and weakening the power/validity of police testimonies without witnesses
etc. etc.

All of those are being discussed and enacted around the country.

Instead of the usual Pelosi bullshit: "Let's remove some confederate statues and name a street after BLM!"

Oh, so you don’t know WTF you are talking about:

House passes sweeping police reform bill
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...n-house-339691

As expected, now you try to obfuscate with statues.

[Shalcker]

You mean to say that 20% unemployment rate and no economic relief results in higher crime? SAY IT AIN’T SO!

Strength of current riots (unlike multiple previous riots over similar police deaths) is also predicated on economic precariousness, not racial situation actually deteriorating.

What are they saying that’s offending you so much?

Well, you're clearly racist by not seeing how what they are saying is offensive and part of racist narrative. And any attempt to deny it would be just showing how your own racism is so ingrained and subconscious that you don't even notice it - you simply support racist beliefs as easily as breathing, all while pretending that you oppose racism.

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What’s the difference between “can’t” and “not allowed”?

Your own ability vs others having control over you?

[Felya]

Your own ability vs others having control over you?

What leads you to believe that they have the ability to defend them selfs, but others controlling them to not permit it?

[Shalcker]

What leads you to believe that they have the ability to defend them selfs, but others controlling them to not permit it?

Because as far as i see people defending themselves from accusations is not part of DiAngelo playbook. There would be no need to go into subconsciousness if conscious reflection would be sufficient.

[Shadowferal]

House passes sweeping police reform bill
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...n-house-339691

Political theater. Sign a bill safely knowing it won't go anywhere. Were they serious this bill would still be getting hashed out.
Democrats are playing games with time.

Strength of current riots (unlike multiple previous riots over similar police deaths) is also predicated on economic precariousness, not racial situation actually deteriorating.

Okay.
Lets add the fact the one biggest difference from the past " Trayvon Martins" is the tens of millions of people out of work and bored, wanting to get out of the virus blues...

Part of the reason why we won't see many lockdowns any more.

[Jester Joe]

Political theater. Sign a bill safely knowing it won't go anywhere. Were they serious this bill would still be getting hashed out.
Democrats are playing games with time.

That's a really weird way to blame the Democrats that the Republican Senate would oppose anything the Democrats put up unless they cater it specifically to them.

You're basically saying "Do less" while criticizing them saying they're not being serious.

[Endus]

Because as far as i see people defending themselves from accusations is not part of DiAngelo playbook. There would be no need to go into subconsciousness if conscious reflection would be sufficient.

If someone accuses you of being racist, and your immediate and only thought is "how dare you accuse me of such a thing", you're acting defensively, rather than trying to understand and self-reflect. You're refusing conscious self-reflection.

The reasonable response is something like "could you explain that? I honestly don't see it and I'm worried there may be a blind spot in my thinking that I am unaware of."

The unwillingness to engage in the latter, that "conscious self-reflection" you hand-waved off, and reacting defensively instead, that's "white fragility".


And frankly, it's like all the homophobes who rail against gay rights and then get caught blowing a male hooker in a gas station. They're reacting defensively and hostile to the concept because that hostility is meant to drive away scrutiny, which would reveal that they themselves are exactly what they're railing against. And they know it, at some level. If you didn't, you'd react with confusion, not anger.

[Jester Joe]

No. The criticism is that they only seem to put up these bills whenever they know it's going to get blocked.
Whenever they hold the Senate they suddenly start playing dumb or raising other concerns. Or hanging it unto other bills for which they know there won't be any major support.

They are always very much welcome to prove us wrong, but until then... it's nothing but theater.

Again, this is a really weird way to try to shift the blame on Democrats it seems.

Explain how they're suppose to come up with something the Senate would pass AND Trump? Because at that point, it's going to be something so watered down that it's pointless anyway, or they'd have to go the route of hoping that they can get 2/3rd vote both times to override Trump.

[Jester Joe]

That isn't the criticism. The criticism is that they don't tend to pass these sorts of bills for meaningful change when they hold the Senate.

It's typical opposition party behavior. Having all these bombastic and eye-catching ideas, but suddenly when they're in the government themselves, they forgot all about it.

Which isn't really relevant because there wasn't such a culture outburst like there is now over the cops.

It's a weird sorta "gotcha" moment to try to discredit what is happening, because of some situation in the past. What's happening right now is any reform is being blocked by the Republicans, and it's going to be called out as such.

To turn around and go "Well, the democrats..." is the kinda slander that Trump uses. I'd go as far to consider it a strange form of gaslighting.

[Milchshake]

Which isn't really relevant because there wasn't such a culture outburst like there is now over the cops.

It's a weird sorta "gotcha" moment to try to discredit what is happening, because of some situation in the past. What's happening right now is any reform is being blocked by the Republicans, and it's going to be called out as such.

To turn around and go "Well, the democrats..." is the kinda slander that Trump uses. I'd go as far to consider it a strange form of gaslighting.

They also purposely ignore the fact that the Democratic Party has dramatically changed its makeup since they last time they held all branches of government.

They deny this change, mostly since they're conservative kids that backed Ron Paul until a few years ago. Their understanding of US politics calcified long ago.
They changed only slightly. Instead of just wanting legal weed, now they also want subsidizes healthcare.


Mostly to have more money to spend on weed. Since they aged out of the parent's coverage.

[Shadowferal]

That's a really weird way to blame the Democrats that the Republican Senate would oppose anything the Democrats put up unless they cater it specifically to them.

You're basically saying "Do less" while criticizing them saying they're not being serious.

It's less about catering and more about working with them.
Politics...compromise.
When one side refuses to budge you get nothing.
Both sides know how to play to the optics.
it's a "win" to their respective constituents.

[PosPosPos]

It's less about catering and more about working with them.
Politics...compromise.
When one side refuses to budge you get nothing.
Both sides know how to play to the optics.
it's a "win" to their respective constituents.

How do you compromise with an entity that refuses to compromise at all? Or are you saying the democrats are at fault...for not having the power to mind-control?