Baldurs Gate 3

[Akka]

If you really want something like BG2, just go play Pathfinder : Kingmaker. It is the best successor there is and it is a great game.

True that.

Kingmaker (for all its original bugs and warts and bad balance, most of which has been thankfully fixed by now) was a great, very ambitious game, and it SCREAMED of "I'm the heir of Baldur's Gate 2" all game long. If anyone wants a "modern" BG2, Kingmaker is definitely here.

[AeneasBK]

Considering the lack of connection though, could it not just as easily have been called "Neverwinter Nights 3" or w.e? They were both D&D RPGS set in the Forgotten Realms, right?

Not gonna lie I think it's a bit of misnomer calling it BG3; I'd have gone for "Baldurs Gate : XXX" if I'd wanted to capitalise on the name; simply because the connection between BG1 and BG2 was so direct I feel there is an implied connection there by calling it "3"; but then there are countless examples on both sides of the argument for naming conventions so w/e really And at any rate my complaint is with Larian for using that name not at any fans who may not have played the first 2; I mean, more strength to you guys, fill yer boots

For XXX insert whatever the most relevant buzzword for the story is, BG: Mindflayers sounds a bit derp but I'm sure once we know what's going to happen there would be a suitable title. But w/e really it's such a silly minor thing.

[ParanoiD84]

True that.

Kingmaker (for all its original bugs and warts and bad balance, most of which has been thankfully fixed by now) was a great, very ambitious game, and it SCREAMED of "I'm the heir of Baldur's Gate 2" all game long. If anyone wants a "modern" BG2, Kingmaker is definitely here.

Indeed it will also get a console release in august.

[Northern Goblin]

True but in actual D&D you could throw the cloudkills and just barricade the doors.

Not sure how effective that would be against a full sized adult or possibly ancient dragon.

[Aliven]

Not sure how effective that would be against a full sized adult or possibly ancient dragon.

Thats how you cheese Firkraag...

[Makabreska]

Thats how you cheese Firkraag...

I don't member any doors in his room.

[Aliven]

I don't member any doors in his room.

If he was in fog of war he was not reacting to actions.
Any aoe spell would do, actually you can cheese most fights in that manner both in base game and dlc.

[The Butt Witch]

I don't member any doors in his room.

Yeah you could cast it from outside his aggro range.

[Jastall]

There are people around who walk without protection from evil on them at all times???

Believe it or not, having to maintain these kind of spells was one of my biggest turnoffs in Baldur's Gate, especially 2 which just loves to make you round corners or open doors into ridiculously deadly critters that can vaporize your ass without proper protection. Feels less like a test of skill than a "gotcha!" from the devs's part forcing a reload and that is trivialized by metagaming/foreknowledge. If there's one thing I kind of hope is streamlined in BG3, it's that kind of spell and effects. Sorry not sorry D&D fans!

[Northern Goblin]

Thats how you cheese Firkraag...

In the game yes, in his suggestion of doing it in a normal DnD game? Not so much.

[Biomega]

Thats how you cheese Firkraag...

Lower Resistance -> Finger of Death; or just Feeblemind.

Lots of unfortunate oversights in the unmodded game that allow silly things obviously not possible with a living, breathing DM.

Mods fix a lot, but it's still bound by engine limitations and the mere fact it's a video game. Never a perfect representation of smart DMing.

[Aliven]

In the game yes, in his suggestion of doing it in a normal DnD game? Not so much.

In normal dnd game? Sure, ray of enfeebelment or something, 2 lvl spell, maximized and/or enlarged, dragons got 11 dex, spell deals 1d6+1/2 caster lvls max +5 dex dmg. While it would not kill the dragon per se, it will paralyze him (because at 0 dex you are paralyzed) so you can then take dagger and cut his head, or gouge his eyes, or put dead horse in his throat so he will choke to death, etc. No magic resistance, no saving throw, you just need to hit with ranged touch attack. And you will, because dragons got very weak ranged touch ac.

In live game it is even more easy to cheese and without over complicating.

- - - Updated - - -

Lower Resistance -> Finger of Death; or just Feeblemind.

Lots of unfortunate oversights in the unmodded game that allow silly things obviously not possible with a living, breathing DM.

Mods fix a lot, but it's still bound by engine limitations and the mere fact it's a video game. Never a perfect representation of smart DMing.

DnD is a cheese galore in living game. And also faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar easier.

Sure, the gm can "ban" things but if he "bans" because he dont want to be bothered then it is a crap gm.
There are combos, builds that are so overpowered it is silly but also legitimate strong builds that should NEVER be banned because they are only overpowered if gm is not very smart.
And on the side of the gm, there is so easy to screw entire party with even low challenge rating monsters it is silly.

[Endus]

In normal dnd game? Sure, ray of enfeebelment or something, 2 lvl spell, maximized and/or enlarged, dragons got 11 dex, spell deals 1d6+1/2 caster lvls max +5 dex dmg. While it would not kill the dragon per se, it will paralyze him (because at 0 dex you are paralyzed) so you can then take dagger and cut his head, or gouge his eyes, or put dead horse in his throat so he will choke to death, etc. No magic resistance, no saving throw, you just need to hit with ranged touch attack. And you will, because dragons got very weak ranged touch ac.

You mean in 2e, like in Baldur's Gate 1/2? Ray of Enfeeblement is defeated by magic resistance, and they absolutely get a saving throw, and the only effect it would have on a dragon is to give them a -2 on attack rolls and -1 on damage rolls per die.

In 5e, the current edition? Ray of Enfeeblement is an attack roll so magic resistance doesn't apply, but it only reduces damage by the targets Strength-basesd attacks by half. No dex damage. They get a save at the end of their turn to end the effect, too, which is where Magic Resistance comes in.

Even if you're talking about 3.X, Ray of Enfeeblement reduces Strength, not Dex, and spell resistance absolutely applies.

So I have to ask; what game are you even talking about?

[Aliven]

You mean in 2e, like in Baldur's Gate 1/2? Ray of Enfeeblement is defeated by magic resistance, and they absolutely get a saving throw, and the only effect it would have on a dragon is to give them a -2 on attack rolls and -1 on damage rolls per die.

In 5e, the current edition? Ray of Enfeeblement is an attack roll so magic resistance doesn't apply, but it only reduces damage by the targets Strength-basesd attacks by half. No dex damage. They get a save at the end of their turn to end the effect, too, which is where Magic Resistance comes in.

Even if you're talking about 3.X, Ray of Enfeeblement reduces Strength, not Dex, and spell resistance absolutely applies.

So I have to ask; what game are you even talking about?

My mistake, i was refering to DnD 3.5, never played 2nd on that ridiculous level, and was not interested in 5e in that regard (not interested in cheesing system).

Do a little digging, because could not find that spell (actually found it later, Ray of Clumsiness, but indeed there is SR checked and it cant reduce below 1) and found what was i talking about. Spell is Shivering Touch, it is 3rd lvl, allow SR and just reduce dexterity by 3d6 without save , its a cold suptype so can be changed to any energy.

But the part which bothered me was SR. So with a little more digging there is another spell, 4th lvl, Assay Spell Resistance, which gives us + 10 to next SR check. Also a swift action. There is True Casting on lvl 1 which gives another +10 and then you take Arcane Mastery feat which let you take 10 on SR check. So you basically make a SR null even for last age category dragons.

You can also go for dweomer keeper prestige class which lets you cast a spell as a supernatural ability once per day, and those ignores SR.

Yes, it is more complicated than i remembered but still, one shooting dragons is pretty nice on low lvls as a wizard. While the base spell is a touch spell (not ranged touch) it can be extended to a ray via Reach Spell feat or Metamagic Rod, which would cost like 3k gold (if dm allow custom magic items).

And we are talking about low lvl spell and combos which are absolutely universal (making your wizard bypass SR is a huuuuge benefit) not even talking the absolute cheeses with polymorph spells, etc.

[Endus]

My mistake, i was refering to DnD 3.5, never played 2nd on that ridiculous level, and was not interested in 5e in that regard (not interested in cheesing system).

Do a little digging, because could not find that spell (actually found it later, Ray of Clumsiness, but indeed there is SR checked and it cant reduce below 1) and found what was i talking about. Spell is Shivering Touch, it is 3rd lvl, allow SR and just reduce dexterity by 3d6 without save , its a cold suptype so can be changed to any energy.

Also a touch attack. And since most dragons that pose a threat are big enough to have a Reach of 10', that means you either had to end your last turn inside its reach and somehow survive without it flying away, or get hit by an attack of opportunity for rushing the dragon. Or used yet another resource to get around that.

But the part which bothered me was SR. So with a little more digging there is another spell, 4th lvl, Assay Spell Resistance, which gives us + 10 to next SR check. Also a swift action. There is True Casting on lvl 1 which gives another +10 and then you take Arcane Mastery feat which let you take 10 on SR check. So you basically make a SR null even for last age category dragons.

You can also go for dweomer keeper prestige class which lets you cast a spell as a supernatural ability once per day, and those ignores SR.

You've now bumped this from something a level 3 wizard could do as a single action from range, to requiring;
Pre-casting True Casting
Casting Assay Spell resistance (minimum character level 7, for 4th level spells)
Closing to melee range with a dragon
Casting Shivering Touch
Praying you roll average or better on Shivering Touch, because the other 45% of the time, you just pissed the dragon off.

And all this time, the dragon lets you do all this rather than, say, taking wing because fuck you I'm a dragon.

The Dweomerkeeper option just adds a ton of complexity (you need to be able to cast divine and arcane magic, and have two specific feats, and have created a magic item, just to qualify for the prestige class) and all that probably doesn't get you there any faster.

Yes, it is more complicated than i remembered but still, one shooting dragons is pretty nice on low lvls as a wizard. While the base spell is a touch spell (not ranged touch) it can be extended to a ray via Reach Spell feat or Metamagic Rod, which would cost like 3k gold (if dm allow custom magic items).

Of course, the problem is you're now building your entire character around trying to one-shot one particular enemy, at huge risk, rather than making them generically effective against most enemies.

And we are talking about low lvl spell and combos which are absolutely universal (making your wizard bypass SR is a huuuuge benefit) not even talking the absolute cheeses with polymorph spells, etc.

You've pulled stuff in from;
Complete Mage
Complete Divine
Frostburn

And really, 3.5 had an acknowledged power creep problem, for precisely this reason. And I'm not sure why you're even bringing it up, since 3.5 has no relevance to Baldur's Gate in any way whatsoever; the first two games were built on 2nd Edition, and 3 is being built on Fifth Edition.

[Northern Goblin]

Also in 5e, even if you land ray of enfeeblement, chances are they'll shrug it off with legendary resistance.

[Northern Goblin]

Regardless, BG 1 and 2 wasn't exactly loved for its combat system, more in spite of it to be frank.

I'm excited to see what Larian does with 5e, the majority of it should translate to video games well.

[Makabreska]

BG2 was broken as hell. It's not just that high level play in AD&D never worked well, they actually added some of the most busted spells and kits that existed to the mix.

Those ToB class abilities were bonkers.

[Dreyen]

suffice to say I enjoyed bg2 I didn't like the mind flayer portion of the game that much, It seemed like they would be a prominent part of bg3 I just remember going through the areas with them was a save/load fest. random one shots from mind blast. I'm sure you could do something to prevent your dudes getting one tapped by them but its been a while since I went through it. I have the extended from gog so I really should try and actually finish it one day. its just a long game going through amn and then into tob.

Mind flayer were definitely bullshit, but there's an equally bullshit way to deal with them. Just summon creatures with no brains such as skeletons and mordenkainen swords... buff and send them to kill mindflayers off screen. None of their psychic spells work on them and they can't leech their intellect to kill them fast either.

[Northern Goblin]

Mindflayers were bullshit, if they could hit you.

Having a tank with a crazy armour class meant they simply never landed. Free action ring or spell so they couldn't be stunned and watch them go to town.

Alternatively, Gate. Pit fiend is immune to +2 and lower weapons.