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  1. #81
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Moving goalposts? Hold on, let me see

    My original post was, basically: It is as if we've forgotten that satire, jokes in general, or actors playing certain characters are not themselves representative of moral positions related to the situation that is being portrayed.

    The discussion with Elegiac moves on to literature that has controversial themes, and that's what I was always arguing about. Controversial works or works containing such representations shouldn't be censored.

    I don't believe that constitutes moving goal posts.
    Man, imagine living in such a bubble of privilege to be able to call all types of controversial media equally problematic, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Moving goalposts? Hold on, let me see

    My original post was, basically: It is as if we've forgotten that satire, jokes in general, or actors playing certain characters are not themselves representative of moral positions related to the situation that is being portrayed.

    The discussion with Elegiac moves on to literature that has controversial themes, and that's what I was always arguing about. Controversial works or works containing such representations shouldn't be censored.

    I don't believe that constitutes moving goal posts.
    Do you think books that have controversial themes are thought controversial because of themes alone and not because of literally EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES INTO THE BOOK and the portrayl of characters.

    Do you think huckleberry Finn is controversial because it deals with a runaway slave? No, Huckleberry Finn is controversial because it takes agency away from the slave and he forgets he was trying to fight freedom and goes on to go south to help this white boy, who then goes on later to torture him for fun and games to make his escape seem more real and exciting. It is controversial because the slave is equal to a retarded child who's only goal in life is to fawn over this white kid, and the novel is suppose to have us feeling moved for their relationship.

    Yet he literally has a wife and child of his own.. which is why he was seeking his fucking freedom to begin with.

    My god...... thinking... just thinking! Just think for a moment and consider nuance and themes and message. My fucking god....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Man, imagine living in such a bubble of privilege to be able to call all types of controversial media equally problematic, lol.
    It's such a ridiculous claim, like it is crazy.

    In his world.

    Me, a gay guy writing a novel about a gay relationship is equally as controversial as...

    a straight guy writing a gay novel about a gay relationship to show that gay relationships are inherently bad and in the end the characters are only happy when they find a woman.

    See in Grimbold21 world they're equally controversial! Context? Themes? What are those in writing, it's all about one particular little thing, like "gay".

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    Hehe, no. I dont have any republican friends I'm afraid. Whatever friends i have in America mostly vote democrats or does not give a shit and stays out of the wasps nest.

    I live in glorious socialist nation of Scandinavian utopia and I vote labor. I've walked in pride marches since 2003 and I've never discriminated anyone because of their skin color =)
    And yet you are here openly supporting racism. Then again, it's not exactly my first time hearing fascists, alt-righters and bigots claim they were for something which every action of theirs scream otherwise.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

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  4. #84
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Do you think books that have controversial themes are thought controversial because of themes alone and not because of literally EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES INTO THE BOOK and the portrayl of characters.

    Do you think huckleberry Finn is controversial because it deals with a runaway slave? No, Huckleberry Finn is controversial because it takes agency away from the slave and he forgets he was trying to fight freedom and goes on to go south to help this white boy, who then goes on later to torture him for fun and games to make his escape seem more real and exciting. It is controversial because the slave is equal to a retarded child who's only goal in life is to fawn over this white kid, and the novel is suppose to have us feeling moved for their relationship.

    Yet he literally has a wife and child of his own.. which is why he was seeking his fucking freedom to begin with.

    My god...... thinking... just thinking! Just think for a moment and consider nuance and themes and message. My fucking god....

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    It's such a ridiculous claim, like it is crazy.

    In his world.

    Me, a gay guy writing a novel about a gay relationship is equally as controversial as...

    a straight guy writing a gay novel about a gay relationship to show that gay relationships are inherently bad and in the end the characters are only happy when they find a woman.

    See in Grimbold21 world they're equally controversial! Context? Themes? What are those in writing, it's all about one particular little thing, like "gay".
    Granted, I'm failing at grasping how my remark that controversial themes shouldn't be censored is exclusive of the fact that a work can be or become controversial for a variety of reasons. I'm also having a hard time how it is indicative of dismissing context.

    Let's take your description of said story. If that is today mainstream take on it, does it suddenly become a work worthy of scorn and censorship? Or, having that in mind, be read in a different light? The controversy is still there, people may just happen to read and understand it differently.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Granted, I'm failing at grasping how my remark that controversial themes shouldn't be censored is exclusive of the fact that a work can be or become controversial for a variety of reasons. I'm also having a hard time how it is indicative of dismissing context.

    Let's take your description of said story. If that is today mainstream take on it, does it suddenly become a work worthy of scorn and censorship? Or, having that in mind, be read in a different light? The controversy is still there, people may just happen to read and understand it differently.
    You must not be aware that gone with the wind was taken down while they add context to properly show historical issues. So it isn't a pure glorification of the wonderful life of a slave.

    By trying to compare gone with the wind to 12 years a slave, you have thrown out context, and focused simply on the theme of slavery.

  6. #86
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    I am glad I could give you a giggle comrade.
    I mean, your own source says it was an idealized concept without any real grounding in reality and which did not in any respect reflect historical family trends. And we've clearly seen that it has failed to live up to any particular benefits or gains in any way whatsoever, to the extent that it's being cast aside as an anachronism that has no place in the modern era as anything to be supported or defended;.

    Somehow you thought dunking on your own net was a point in your favor, but I really don't see how.


  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurgjelme View Post
    -snip-
    And yet you are in the other thread pushing a common xenophobic narrative about "dangerous immigrants". Not hard to see who is the one actually arguing strawmen.

    I am right when I said you were one of the bigots claiming to not be bigoted contrary to all the other actions and words they have done and uttered.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanstos View Post
    Because it would be a better use of time to aim that at something that will make significant change. And you obviously didn't read my post. I make it explicitly clear that I want to know WHY this is important, NOT that it doesn't matter to me so it shouldn't to anyone else.
    It's not like it's one or the other though...society can do both. Remove the things that are representative of the broken system while making changes to try and fix the broken system.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    And yet you are in the other thread pushing a common xenophobic narrative about "dangerous immigrants". Not hard to see who is the one actually arguing strawmen.

    I am right when I said you were one of the bigots claiming to not be bigoted contrary to all the other actions and words they have done and uttered.
    person spouting racism and xenophobia, who just so happens to have a cross commonly worn by white nationalists, with a pagan symbol?! colour me shocked.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    person spouting racism and xenophobia, who just so happens to have a cross commonly worn by white nationalists, with a pagan symbol?! colour me shocked.
    Bigot with openly bigoted narratives gets offended when called bigot - literally the only archetype of bigot I have encountered since the first day I stepped into GenOT.
    "My successes are my own, but my failures are due to extremist leftist liberals" - Party of Personal Responsibility

    Prediction for the future

  11. #91
    The Lightbringer Shakadam's Avatar
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    People whose entire self-worth depends upon perceived "reputation/standing" on social media love to virtue signal about the current popular thing, actually doing something constructive about the issue takes effort so most people can't be bothered but a few select words here and there is easy and collects social capital within this bubble of people.

    Give it a few months and the masses will have moved on to the next thing to be "upset" about.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    "Solve the problem completely or do nothing, incremental change is too complicated for me to understand."

    Not impressed with this thread.
    Yeah, this.

    Was typing but realized this is all that needs to be said on this matter.

    If people cannot see why the kettle boils over, then they're sheltered from the heat.

  13. #93
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    This is closed. We have multiiple threads to discuss current events and "Do my homework for me"/"prove me otherwise" threads aren't necessary.
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