"Forced" or "Mandatory" covenants

[Fkiolaris]

Apologists: The Covenants will be balanced so you won't be screwed if you select one over the other.

Meanwhile on the front page there is an 8-min video of a prot paladin one-shotting people at 2500MMR because the current rented power system is complete bollocks and entirely unbalanced. It's ok boyz, the next expansion will fix it when Blizzard will say that they've learned their lessons (again).

[Levidor]

Apologists: The Covenants will be balanced so you won't be screwed if you select one over the other.

Meanwhile on the front page there is an 8-min video of a prot paladin one-shotting people at 2500MMR because the current rented power system is complete bollocks and entirely unbalanced. It's ok boyz, the next expansion will fix it when Blizzard will say that they've learned their lessons (again).

So true hahaha

[Specialka]

Apologists: The Covenants will be balanced so you won't be screwed if you select one over the other.

Meanwhile on the front page there is an 8-min video of a prot paladin one-shotting people at 2500MMR because the current rented power system is complete bollocks and entirely unbalanced. It's ok boyz, the next expansion will fix it when Blizzard will say that they've learned their lessons (again).

Rental power at its finest.

[Krakan]

It's just a guess, but I bet that the Agent of Chaos ability gets nerfed vs. players. Because you are right, that's insanely OP.

The problem is it isnt alone.. now it stands out the most but there are clear covenants designed for pvp. Mythic plus and raiding sure... I can see the line being blurred but this system really demands you roll two of the same toon with different covenants if you want to enjoy higher end game play in different areas of the game.

I will be honest I enjoy dipping my toes in pvp. I've never broken 2100 for a mount but it's a fun thing to fiddle around with after raids. I simply won't be able to do that in sl as I dont have the time to gear two toons and.. well it just sucks.

Sure I can still pvp and fight worse players with better spells then me but that feels more frustrating then entertaining.

[SirBeef]

The problem I have with it and many others do as well is that it's more disruptive then having a single spell given out to each race.

Trust the theorycrafters with this not the feelscrafters.

I mean to each their own. The moment theorycrafring gets tossed about I roll my eyes. I just play the game. Sure, there was a time where min/maxing was a thing with me and hitting armor pen breakpoints and hit caps and so on were something I concerned myself with. But at the end if the day doing that for me took away the fun of playing a game.

So I don't care if it was disruptive, I don't mind if things are not balanced, or equal. Nor do I care if People cannot be optimal at every facet of the game due to a choice being made.

I get that everyone is different and others may like theorycrafting, min/maxing, or not having meaningful choices. I just state my preferences. If Blizzard sticks with the covenants they way they are now then that is preferable. However, they can do what they want. If they decide to allow easy changeable covenants, then so be it. I'll still play how I like and not worry about it.

In the it's just a game. And for me it's about having fun. Part of that is making tough choices on character building/progression. I know WoW has never really had that, but that doesn't mean I don't welcome it.

- - - Updated - - -

Apologists: The Covenants will be balanced so you won't be screwed if you select one over the other.

Meanwhile on the front page there is an 8-min video of a prot paladin one-shotting people at 2500MMR because the current rented power system is complete bollocks and entirely unbalanced. It's ok boyz, the next expansion will fix it when Blizzard will say that they've learned their lessons (again).

Except, not every prot paladin is capable of doing that. Just like how every expansion since DKs came out we are a video of a DK soloing raids while they are current. Yet, There may only be a handful of players skilled enough to do so. Not saying corruptions are balanced, frankly I don't care too much if they are or not. I'm guaranteeing you only a handful if Prot Paladins are capable of doing that. I mean if it were such a problem everyone could right? But they are not.

- - - Updated - - -

That's just like, your opinion man

Dude, many if us thought that before TBC came out.

[Caparino]

Grove Invigoration
When you use your Night Fae class ability or spell, gain 10% Mastery, slowly fading over 5 min.

10% Mastery ... Wait Mastery Value is different for all Class/Speccs!

Tank Druid 144 Points for 1% aka 10%moreHp/Healing Value 1440 Points in Stats
Arms Warrior 6.43 Points per 1% aka 10% more bleed Damage 64,3 Points in Stats

Why talk about Utility or flavor when you can see this?
I dont need Min Maxers or Theorycrafters to see thats this Soulbind is awful unbalanced.


A big problem is that Soulbinds interact with Convenant Class Abilities (when used) and have the same effect but the Cooldown is very different. Some classes have maybe 30s CD other 3 Minutes but the Soulbind Effect is identical on use. Balancing impossible.

[taishar68]

Grove Invigoration
When you use your Night Fae class ability or spell, gain 10% Mastery, slowly fading over 5 min.

10% Mastery ... Wait Mastery Value is different for all Class/Speccs!

Tank Druid 144 Points for 1% aka 10%moreHp/Healing Value 1440 Points in Stats
Arms Warrior 6.43 Points per 1% aka 10% more bleed Damage 64,3 Points in Stats

Why talk about Utility or flavor when you can see this?
I dont need Min Maxers or Theorycrafters to see thats this Soulbind is awful unbalanced.


A big problem is that Soulbinds interact with Convenant Class Abilities (when used) and have the same effect but the Cooldown is very different. Some classes have maybe 30s CD other 3 Minutes but the Soulbind Effect is identical on use. Balancing impossible.

I’d be more concerned if your example showed 2 DPS Specs with such a wild disparity. HP is a completely different animal than DPS.

[Caparino]

Fire Mage 96 Points per 1% Mastery or Marksmanship 115 Points.

Tank Venegance with 28.8 Points per 1% aka 288 Points Value vs 1440 Points.
And Demonhunter "The Hunt" has 3min CD vs 2min Druid which means the Average Mastery disparity is bigger because the 5min decay.

[Krakan]

I mean to each their own. The moment theorycrafring gets tossed about I roll my eyes. I just play the game. Sure, there was a time where min/maxing was a thing with me and hitting armor pen breakpoints and hit caps and so on were something I concerned myself with. But at the end if the day doing that for me took away the fun of playing a game.

So I don't care if it was disruptive, I don't mind if things are not balanced, or equal. Nor do I care if People cannot be optimal at every facet of the game due to a choice being made.

I get that everyone is different and others may like theorycrafting, min/maxing, or not having meaningful choices. I just state my preferences. If Blizzard sticks with the covenants they way they are now then that is preferable. However, they can do what they want. If they decide to allow easy changeable covenants, then so be it. I'll still play how I like and not worry about it.

In the it's just a game. And for me it's about having fun. Part of that is making tough choices on character building/progression. I know WoW has never really had that, but that doesn't mean I don't welcome it.

- - - Updated - - -



Except, not every prot paladin is capable of doing that. Just like how every expansion since DKs came out we are a video of a DK soloing raids while they are current. Yet, There may only be a handful of players skilled enough to do so. Not saying corruptions are balanced, frankly I don't care too much if they are or not. I'm guaranteeing you only a handful if Prot Paladins are capable of doing that. I mean if it were such a problem everyone could right? But they are not.

- - - Updated - - -



Dude, many if us thought that before TBC came out.

The problem is you create the most poisonous environments imaginable in the game and break it with your " math is for nerds" mentality.

We currently are set to see a 3 team of pallys stacking infinite stars to be one of the only viable comps in arena now that the cat is out of the bag.

So if you really,really don't care can you go and I don't know do something else rather then actively encourage the game be broken because you want a derpy rpg?

Any protection pally with 465+ ilv can do that it just requires a large time investment to get the corruptions.

[taishar68]

Fire Mage 96 Points per 1% Mastery or Marksmanship 115 Points.

Tank Venegance with 28.8 Points per 1% aka 288 Points Value vs 1440 Points.
And Demonhunter "The Hunt" has 3min CD vs 2min Druid which means the Average Mastery disparity is bigger because the 5min decay.

Fire vs Marks isn’t that bad, but that tank one is a big difference. But aren’t Druids given really large health pools because they have less mitigation tools?

[iinverse]

Meanwhile... "not mandatory", "just 10-15% of your power" borrowed powers oneshot peeeps at arena. B-balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSfVv-oVTts

[Sephirosu]

I know a lot of yall don't like them youtube/twitch stars but preach pretty much summed it all up:



(check around the 14:50 minute mark)

People just like doing whatever they want to do even if what they chose is objectively wrong. It is their thing and they don't want to be given shit for it even if at the end of the day the overall system will "only affect the 1% of the wow population".

I just hope blizzard really REALLY takes the time to finetune all this (inb4 "it's only alpha brah").

[Echocho]

Anything is better than what we have now where the only meaningful choice you do is selecting a class. When you can completely change every single choice between trash packs there is something wrong with the game and you're no longer playing a RPG.

[Caparino]

Fire vs Marks isn’t that bad, but that tank one is a big difference. But aren’t Druids given really large health pools because they have less mitigation tools?

Sorry but is Arms warrior no DPS Specc?

6,43 vs 115

And you must understand that Druid Start with 4% ExtraHP/Healing and the Mastery is very expensive, most Druids have maybe 20% in Endgame because the Mastery Value is maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of all your secondary attributes. At the other hand Arms Warrior Start with 90% Bleed Damage the Stat is very cheap, 200 or 300% bleed Damage are no problem. Druids will kill for 10% more HP/Healing because its translate in 10% less damage against all physical and magic damage when you have a healer.

144*x=6,43*x is never Balanced. when the Soulbind gives a Fix Value like 1440 Mastery druids will have 10% more HP and Healing but Arms Warrior give it 223% Bleed Damage then its okay.

[crusadernero]

I know a lot of yall don't like them youtube/twitch stars but preach pretty much summed it all up:



(check around the 14:50 minute mark)

People just like doing whatever they want to do even if what they chose is objectively wrong. It is their thing and they don't want to be given shit for it even if at the end of the day the overall system will "only affect the 1% of the wow population".

I just hope blizzard really REALLY takes the time to finetune all this (inb4 "it's only alpha brah").

After seeing this video I cant help but think "ugh, what a utter mess". Theres so much coming in SL that you gotta keep up with. I've played this game since vanilla and my main has more or less always been a Paladin, but I have always lvld alts and played them at max level. In SL, looks like I wont bother at all. its enough just to keep up with whatever my main should have and shouldnt have. Same trend as in BfA, were I stopped playing alts during 8.2 cause I couldnt be bothered with the same grind.

Im wondering how Blizzard will make sure that people make the "right" choice in game for these covenants. One thing is the people that goes on forums and webpages to find out stuff, but how will the game tell us what to choose? If I pick X covenant, what do I miss out on? What if people decide without knowing everything thats needed to know? Is every player supposed to use third party sites in order to get the best experience from the game? What if you pick X covenant because at that time you focus on X spec, but halfway down the xpac you decide to change main spec and suddenly your covenant choice is haltering you?

with blizzards track record on balancing new features, I dont have high hopes for this. It may sound cool now, but how it works in game will be different. The shitshow next winter will be huge.

Long gone are the days of reaching max level and obtain gear. Gear at this point is just there for the sake of it. Borrowed powergain is the new thing and my god theres alot to read up in order to take the best choices for yourself.

[Sephirosu]

If these forums are any indication of what's to come (I have my doubts that some people in here still actually play) the majority will pick whatever they want and then down the line either defend their choice to their very last breath even if it is "objectively wrong" or spend the rest of the expac complaining that they chose wrong and that their friend that picked a different covenant deals "double" their dmg or doesn't have to jump thru as many hoops to reach a certain level of gameplay.

If by the time I reach 60 there isn't some spreadsheet that tells me "pick this for Frost DK", I will probably either pick vampires or woodland creatures.

[exochaft]

If these forums are any indication of what's to come (I have my doubts that some people in here still actually play) the majority will pick whatever they want and then down the line either defend their choice to their very last breath even if it is "objectively wrong" or spend the rest of the expac complaining that they chose wrong and that their friend that picked a different covenant deals "double" their dmg or doesn't have to jump thru as many hoops to reach a certain level of gameplay.

If by the time I reach 60 there isn't some spreadsheet that tells me "pick this for Frost DK", I will probably either pick vampires or woodland creatures.

I've stated for a long while now (and I think Preach mentioned it, too) is that reason WoW is difficult to tune/balance is because of the MMO part of being an MMORPG. If WoW and all its content was designed for single players versus groups/raids, almost none of this balancing act would be an issue nor be demanded to such an exact level. But it's not: much of the game is balanced around groups/raids, as well as the hardest difficulty content being tuned to where you have to make the 'right' choices, not the 'RPG' or 'fun' choices. The sad reality is that playing group content w/o regard for your group is not only frowned upon but makes the content artificially harder in almost every case, so player choices tend to be guided by the needs of the group if they want to maximize the chances of beating the content. This even applies to the lesser skilled players to likely a greater degree, as choices that are innately more powerful can potentially compensate for a lack of skill, having the difference between victory or defeat coming down to if they made the 'correct' choices.

[SirBeef]

The problem is you create the most poisonous environments imaginable in the game and break it with your " math is for nerds" mentality.

We currently are set to see a 3 team of pallys stacking infinite stars to be one of the only viable comps in arena now that the cat is out of the bag.

So if you really,really don't care can you go and I don't know do something else rather then actively encourage the game be broken because you want a derpy rpg?

Any protection pally with 465+ ilv can do that it just requires a large time investment to get the corruptions.

Trying to see how I create a toxic environment. I don't tell people they cannot theory craft, nor to I petition Blizzard to make the game the way I like it. I consume the game as it is made, for better or worse. I just state my opinions. Which is balance is not always good for the game in general. Uniqueness is good. Meaningful choice is good. Restrictions can be good and so on. I may be passionate about how I feel about things here, but do not conflate that with I am telling anyone how to play.

Do I think Dwarven Priests being the sole casters of fear ward was a good thing. For uniqueness yes, for overall health no. Did I try and stop Blizzard from making the change so all Priests can have it? Nope. Same for Paladins on both factions and any of the other balance or accessibility changes.

I have always been one that can see both sides of the coin but of course I have preferences. Sometimes they favor balance and accessibility, other times they favor the uniqueness aspect. I mean SMB2 would have been a boring game if all 4 characters were the same just with different skins. Sometimes you need that imbalance or uniqueness to make things interesting.

But the math guys can do what they want. I wont stop them. I used to be one. I just found it took away my enjoyment of the game as I was too busy always looking at the numbers rather than playing a game for run. I understand that is fun for some and I'm not stopping anyone from doing it. I don't need it. If they find something egregious and Blizzard fixes it and it effects my class. So be it. I'm not going to sit here and bitch about it. I just go with the flow. After all, it's just a game.

[taishar68]

Sorry but is Arms warrior no DPS Specc?

6,43 vs 115

And you must understand that Druid Start with 4% ExtraHP/Healing and the Mastery is very expensive, most Druids have maybe 20% in Endgame because the Mastery Value is maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of all your secondary attributes. At the other hand Arms Warrior Start with 90% Bleed Damage the Stat is very cheap, 200 or 300% bleed Damage are no problem. Druids will kill for 10% more HP/Healing because its translate in 10% less damage against all physical and magic damage when you have a healer.

144*x=6,43*x is never Balanced. when the Soulbind gives a Fix Value like 1440 Mastery druids will have 10% more HP and Healing but Arms Warrior give it 223% Bleed Damage then its okay.

I didn’t realize you were comparing arms to the mage/hunter examples. Fair points. So it’s safe to assume the mastery corruptions are the same issue?

[Echocho]

I didn’t realize you were comparing arms to the mage/hunter examples. Fair points. So it’s safe to assume the mastery corruptions are the same issue?

Yes, nobody lets me join groups to anything if I don't pick the mastery corruption.

/s

Or they don't care and I can raid mythic with whatever the hell I want as long as I handle the mechanics and put out decent numbers.