[Spoilers] Night elves new capital

[Ardenaso]

TBH, I'd love Eldre'thalas as a "highborne renaissance" center, not sure how quite the Draenei would fit there but I would love to see them too? Nonetheless, I 100% agree on a reclaimed Eldre'thalas where all the alliance elves can reclaim their arcane past.

I mean Draenei would at least some nice contributions with their artificiers and that they were at least Highborne levels of arcane expertise

[Hellspawn]

The book will get a chapter with Tyrande, Thrall and others.... at Nordrassil.
https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...shadows-rising

[Rhlor]

The book will get a chapter with Tyrande, Thrall and others.... at Nordrassil.
https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...shadows-rising

a good opportunity to see how things are there!and calia goes along with thrall and Baine as leader forsaken!

[eurojust]

The book will get a chapter with Tyrande, Thrall and others.... at Nordrassil.
https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...shadows-rising

lmao Tyrande is such an useless character.
Not only she never took back Ashenvale and went afk during Darkshore, but she still allows Thrall and Baine to come in their most sacred place after what they did to the night elves.
So much for the Night Warrior avatar.

[Hellspawn]

a good opportunity to see how things are there!and calia goes along with thrall and Baine as leader forsaken!

Maiev and Shandris will be there too, will be interesting to see what they have to say in this specific gathering of people.

[Vaedan]

lmao Tyrande is such an useless character.
Not only she never took back Ashenvale and went afk during Darkshore, but she still allows Thrall and Baine to come in their most sacred place after what they did to the night elves.
So much for the Night Warrior avatar.

Well, did you even read it? Tyrande did not allow Thrall to just waltz into Nordrassil, she wanted him to bring her what he owes, which is not clear at this point. We will most likely learn of it once the book is out. It is also stated that she is terrifying and not nice at all. I'd definitely wait for the book to judge her role in the story before making some assumptions.

Also, Thrall was not really part of the Horde at the time of Burning, and I also believe he is the only orc Tyrande and Malfurion will tolerate because of his role in defense of Hyjal during the Third War.

I'm not surprised you jump to first opportunity to spit on her, since you already showed your lack of objectivity towards her.

[eurojust]

Well, did you even read it? Tyrande did not allow Thrall to just waltz into Nordrassil, she wanted him to bring her what he owes, which is not clear at this point. We will most likely learn of it once the book is out. It is also stated that she is terrifying and not nice at all. I'd definitely wait for the book to judge her role in the story before making some assumptions.

Also, Thrall was not really part of the Horde at the time of Burning, and I also believe he is the only orc Tyrande and Malfurion will tolerate because of his role in defense of Hyjal during the Third War.

I'm not surprised you jump to first opportunity to spit on her, since you already showed your lack of objectivity towards her.

I read the spoilers : She wants him to kill Sylvanas otherwise she will not speak to him again (omg, what a threat, Thrall must be really scared). See, i told you that she only blames Sylvanas for what happened like the rest of the Alliance, which makes her anger even look more stupid.
Thrall is the one who saved the Horde and established them in Kalimdor, responsible for the invasion of Ashenvale, Azshara, putting Garrosh as warchief, allied with the Forsaken etc.
Baine was directly supporting the Horde during BFA and still supported Sylvanas even after Teldrassil.
All you got is "Tyrande is scary". Wow man, the Horde is going to suffer, no doubt! She will perhaps end up giving another nelf territory to the Horde just like she did after SoO and the Horde will never attack them again right?

[Hellspawn]

I read the spoilers : She wants him to kill Sylvanas otherwise she will not speak to him again (omg, what a threat, Thrall must be really scared). See, i told you that she only blames Sylvanas for what happened like the rest of the Alliance, which makes her anger even look more stupid.
Thrall is the one who saved the Horde and established them in Kalimdor, responsible for the invasion of Ashenvale, Azshara, putting Garrosh as warchief, allied with the Forsaken etc.
Baine was directly supporting the Horde during BFA and still supported Sylvanas even after Teldrassil.
All you got is "Tyrande is scary". Wow man, the Horde is going to suffer, no doubt! She will perhaps end up giving another nelf territory to the Horde just like she did after SoO and the Horde will never attack them again right?

No she does not only only blame Sylvanas, but the Horde aswell, thats pretty obvious when you read the part when Maiev speaks.
Even besides that, Tyrande blames the entire Horde and not just Sylvanas. As you already noticed, Sylvanas head is no redemption of the Horde.
And yes Thrall is scared enough that he does not ever turn his back on Tyrande.

[eurojust]

No she does not only only blame Sylvanas, but the Horde aswell, thats pretty obvious when you read the part when Maiev speaks.
Even besides that, Tyrande blames the entire Horde and not just Sylvanas. As you already noticed, Sylvanas head is no redemption of the Horde.
And yes Thrall is scared enough that he does not ever turn his back on Tyrande.

Then why is she obsessed over Sylvanas? Why would Thrall bring Sylvanas head if he knows that she will want her revenge on the Horde anyway? It's just words, just like SoO. Meanwhile she just let Baine, the dude whos people slaughtered and genocided her people, come to Hyjal?

[Vaedan]

Then why is she obsessed over Sylvanas? Why would Thrall bring Sylvanas head if he knows that she will want her revenge on the Horde anyway? It's just words, just like SoO. Meanwhile she just let Baine, the dude whos people slaughtered and genocided her people, come to Hyjal?

She is after Sylvanas because it was her who is directly responsible for the idea of War of Thorns, that is obvious. For that, two persons were major players - Sylvanas and Saurfang. She does not trust the Horde anyway, as they were instrument of Sylvanas' campaign. She expresses it at Stormwind Embassy in 8.3:

Shandris: The Banshee Queen no longer leads the Horde. Those who do seem more inclined toward peace than war.
Tyrande: If the wolf is rabid, it matters not who rides it. Sooner or later, the beast will bare its fangs.


Right now, both Alliance and Horde are after Sylvanas for obvious reasons and both faction wants to put her down. I believe we don't have to explain to you why Tyrande wants to do so.

As for letting Thrall and others go to Nordrassil... well, if you want to find someone so elusive as Sylvanas, it's logical to share information to increase your chance on success. I also find logical that Tyrande would like to observe and gather as much information about this new Horde council as possible for her to be prepared and know what to expect. Thrall and Baine are the most ideal candidates for this, since they are two most friendly Horde leaders on the board. We will find out more about this once the book is online and we'll find out what this conversation is about and how it concludes.

[ravenmoon]

And I keep being wary of any self proclaimed True Night Elf Fans that completely disregard and dismiss what the Night Elves are socioculturally and aesthetically in favor of what they just want them to be.

The argument "Suramar was their city first" when it was 10.000 years ago, and evolved changed under Nightborne ownership, will never be a good argument.

This whole tedious talk is about your utter refusal to accept that the Night Elves are not the same people culturally than they were 10k years ago, and it's downright absurd we have to keep proving this to you and your ilk at this point. "It has ever right to look like Suramar" or be that city itself, that's the sort of statement of someone that completely disregard the cultural context of a people in favor of what you find more pleasing.

Also the whole implication that disagreement on this means one must favor the Horde is so basic. It's like you are unable to accept that someone that also likes Night Elves would disagree with you. Then again, your actual view on what Night Elves actually are is so warped I'm not surpised.

I don't think even High Elves should have a city looking like Silvermoon. Because even in a couple of decades they have already diverged culturally, it shouldn't have the same sensibilities than Silvermoon as High Elves on the alliance have inextricably being affected by their assimilation into humanity, or their own isolation. Why would they rebuild their cities as a copy of Silvermoon? The only reason would be a purposeful traditionalist reclaiming.

But again, Night Elves have spent the last freaking Ten Thousand Years moving away from their Imperial Past, living in harmony with nature, and you presume to know better and say they would like to live on a city as ostentatious as Suramar?

Like what even is this nonsense?

Well,let's just agree to disagree. I don't htink the ngiht elves past is going toshackle them or the developers from doing incredible stuff.

And i also disagree with your assessment too, you are conflating a number of things to support your outcome which i don't believe at all are necessarily hinderances to having a gorgeous night elven city with great architecture.

Mooving away from imperialism does not mean they can't or won't build goregeous buildings
Night elves are quick to adapt too = quickly shifting cultural stance and lifestyle when the situation demadns it and it's the right thing to do

This means that staying in the long vigil lifestyle mode by does not mean they can't ever go back to civilziaiton or live in cities or build them at all.

Also there are certain aspects of the previous civilziation they certainly have let go, but for you to think this means buildings or it means everything is ofc your opinion, but to me, that doesn't mean they can't live in or build cool stuff.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well,let's just agree to disagree. I don't htink the ngiht elves past is going toshackle them or the developers from doing incredible stuff.

And i also disagree with your assessment too, you are conflating a number of things to support your outcome which i don't believe at all are necessarily hinderances to having a gorgeous night elven city with great architecture.

Mooving away from imperialism does not mean they can't or won't build goregeous buildings
Night elves are quick to adapt too = quickly shifting cultural stance and lifestyle when the situation demadns it and it's the right thing to do

This means that staying in the long vigil lifestyle mode by does not mean they can't ever go back to civilziaiton or live in cities or build them at all.

Also there are certain aspects of the previous civilziation they certainly have let go, but for you to think this means buildings or it means everything is ofc your opinion, but to me, that doesn't mean they can't live in or build cool stuff.

The core of your problem is that you think their current aesthetic/building style is lesser than the imperial style. Which is entirely just your subjective opinion.

You keep conflating the imperial style with a higher level of civilization, which is entirely wrong. They could build even more gorgeous, bigger cities on their modern style; the imperial architecture is irrelevant of that.

[ravenmoon]

The core of your problem is that you think their current aesthetic/building style is lesser than the imperial style. Which is entirely just your subjective opinion.

I don't think that's a problem, and I also don't think that aesthetic is suitable for a city. It has its place.

I just don't see the point of designing yet another city version for night elves based on what is not meant for a city, when theya lready have perfectly good and really beautiful architecture for a city. I don't htink oor feel they should be abanodning that to bring the forest homes to the city. But rather, have your beautiful kaldorei pre-sundering city but fill them with nature, that's the way to go, not redesign yet another template for a race that has already had 1 initial, then 1 makeover, and has the most detailed style pattern, comparable only to humans.

You keep conflating the imperial style with a higher level of civilization, which is entirely wrong. They could build even more gorgeous, bigger cities on their modern style; the imperial architecture is irrelevant of that.

If you did that it would no longer be the Auberdine buildings - which I keep telling you are NOT modern, they are pre-sundering too (check Winterspring), and they are rural elven. They're not even restricted to night elves, high elves used and built those type of lodges too (check hinterlands and Loch Modan)

[Tanaria]

I don't think that's a problem, and I also don't think that aesthetic is suitable for a city. It has its place.

I just don't see the point of designing yet another city version for night elves based on what is not meant for a city, when theya lready have perfectly good and really beautiful architecture for a city. I don't htink oor feel they should be abanodning that to bring the forest homes to the city. But rather, have your beautiful kaldorei pre-sundering city but fill them with nature, that's the way to go, not redesign yet another template for a race that has already had 1 initial, then 1 makeover, and has the most detailed style pattern, comparable only to humans.


If you did that it would no longer be the Auberdine buildings - which I keep telling you are NOT modern, they are pre-sundering too (check Winterspring), and they are rural elven. They're not even restricted to night elves, high elves used and built those type of lodges too (check hinterlands and Loch Modan)

A city to suggest that they are ferocious, angry savages is the way to go.
Most of the new features and scarring are based around what happened to Teldrassil and what happened there is far bigger than anything that night elf mages could have ever brought to the table.

Besides, new architecture is in for a reason...it's time to actually make something good and not just a clone of Silvermoon or Suramar (Don't start with your BS about Suramar being there home, it's impossible. They have no methods to ever take it from the Horde. Suramar's defense in the Shal'dorei, Sin'dorei and HMT is absolute.)

[Vaedan]

A city to suggest that they are ferocious, angry savages is the way to go.
Most of the new features and scarring are based around what happened to Teldrassil and what happened there is far bigger than anything that night elf mages could have ever brought to the table.

Besides, new architecture is in for a reason...it's time to actually make something good and not just a clone of Silvermoon or Suramar (Don't start with your BS about Suramar being there home, it's impossible. They have no methods to ever take it from the Horde. Suramar's defense in the Shal'dorei, Sin'dorei and HMT is absolute.)

I wouldn't say it's absolute. Nightborne definitely had population limits in their 10 thousand years isolation. Their population was then reduced by Elisande feeding Legion with Nightborne to fuel their magic, many of them died fighting rebellion, many of them died as part of rebellion, and don't forget we stormed the city even when Elisande was in charge and used Nightwell to protect it. Blood elves did not even managed to clear Ghostlands by now... So I guess HMT are the strongest of the defenders you mentioned.

Night elves definitely does not have numbers to lay Siege to Suramar at all, that's right.

[ravenmoon]

A city to suggest that they are ferocious, angry savages is the way to go.
Most of the new features and scarring are based around what happened to Teldrassil and what happened there is far bigger than anything that night elf mages could have ever brought to the table.

Well, we can agree to disagree, the night elves have never been angry, ferocious , savages, and there is more to them than that. But if blizzard want to go down that line, that's up to them - usually Elf is not the race you use for that, but you make enough noise about this, they'll probably listen to you, and turn the night elves more into that, then realise no one particularly wants to play that anymore, and you won't be interested ofc, becuase you never have been, you've been a blood elf fan and loved the pre-sundering, dark elf sideo f hte night elf lore as you saw in Suramar with the Nightborne. but those aren't your elves so you don't care.

Night elves would have some lovers, some hardcore ones in this savage state, but they'd be like Worgen and other alliance races, having a niche role, downgraded from the original larger vision they had.

That's entirely the developers choice.

We play now 4 elven groups, and if they don't want the night elf to run as the Zandalari for elves, but instead just be another tribe, then that's their choice... it's not as attractive a one if you ask me, and I think they're better off creating another allied race like Nelf worgen to fill that spot, and instead actually taking night elves in the direction of Children of the Stars, they original vision which is thoroughly unique - with the NElf worgen being exactly that ferocious, angry savage group.

[Tanaria]

Night Elves were never under siege from an undead warchief who sought to bring about their end and hope by the death of their Archdruid.
Also - they were savages as quoted by Grommash when he and his Orcs were fighting them for the first time.

And it's not up to me or you where Blizzard takes the night elves, but the new features are symbolic to that of the burning of teldrassil and the night elves are angry. They are pissed. That's possibly why more features are Druidic, Priest-like and Sentinel-like because these areas of night elf society are the driving force behind the Army of the Black Moon.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't think that's a problem, and I also don't think that aesthetic is suitable for a city. It has its place.

I just don't see the point of designing yet another city version for night elves based on what is not meant for a city, when theya lready have perfectly good and really beautiful architecture for a city. I don't htink oor feel they should be abanodning that to bring the forest homes to the city. But rather, have your beautiful kaldorei pre-sundering city but fill them with nature, that's the way to go, not redesign yet another template for a race that has already had 1 initial, then 1 makeover, and has the most detailed style pattern, comparable only to humans.

And again, all of this boils down to your own subjectivity that the NE's actual modern aesthetic is "unsuitable for a city."

Unreal-

If you did that it would no longer be the Auberdine buildings - which I keep telling you are NOT modern, they are pre-sundering too (check Winterspring), and they are rural elven. They're not even restricted to night elves, high elves used and built those type of lodges too (check hinterlands and Loch Modan)

How can you keep missing the point? Modern just means "currently in usage", i'm not claiming whatsoever that is newer than the imperial style, caue obviously the druidic inspirations of the modern style existed pre-sundering.

And you keep dismissively calling it "rural." Which is just so bananas. You have to delude yourself that they built 2/3 of Darnassus on a "rural" style for this to make sense. Again, 2/3 of a city on a rural style. Your logic is literally bonkers.

[Ardenaso]

ehh, the Night Elves' druidic and savage architecture like in WC3 is where they're really suited at

in the case of Eldre'thalas, Moonguard Bastion, they're better of as Highborne tokens; sure 1, 2, or 3 is enough but let's not overdo it and keep them low

[Skytotem]

ehh, the Night Elves' druidic and savage architecture like in WC3 is where they're really suited at

in the case of Eldre'thalas, Moonguard Bastion, they're better of as Highborne tokens; sure 1, 2, or 3 is enough but let's not overdo it and keep them low

I think the Sentinels ought to get a few fortified places like modern versions of Black Rook Hold, just to serve as stockpiles and control narrow passes between important places.