Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Stormdash]

I pick up my guns this week. Already been buying whatever ammo I can get ahold of.

what you get?

[Svifnymr]

I'll actually be getting a shotgun as well next month. I'm hoping I can get an 870 express combo. it's a great shotgun

Remington is having issues right now, declaring bankruptcy again and possibly selling to Navajo. I'm not sure if they're producing right now, and what the future production might be. Navajo have said they plan on moving stuff (which killed Rem's quality for a while when Cerberus did it) and will probably be discontinuing a lot of stuff they don't like.

In any case, Mossberg and others make a fine shotgun as well, so there will be options available.

[Zan15]

Good. Sounds like you got them at the right time.

As a side note, notice how the media is referring to the recent violent death's over the July 4th weekend, as gun violence? As if the guns caused the death's instead of criminals. Why not refer to it as criminals shooting death's? Or criminals using guns to kill others?

Or how about Gun Owners using their guns?

Or are you trying to imply only people with criminal record shoot people?

When the terrorists used the airplanes to kill thousands on 9/11, they did not refer to it as airplane violence. :P

Awesome analogy then lets use the same logic and apply the same actions the govt took after 9/11 to guns.

[Kellhound]

Or how about Gun Owners using their guns?

Or are you trying to imply only people with criminal record shoot people?



Awesome analogy then lets use the same logic and apply the same actions the govt took after 9/11 to guns.

Criminals performing criminal acts, the tool used to perform the act is immaterial.

There are more restrictions on firearms than plane travel, nice try.

[Zan15]

Criminals performing criminal acts, the tool used to perform the act is immaterial.

There are more restrictions on firearms than plane travel, nice try.

Sorry but are criminals not gun owners?

Gun owners good guys till they commit a criminal act then they are disowned like they never were a legitimate gun owner to begin with. I know the pattern.

There are more restrictions on firearms than plane travel, nice try.

Good then you won't mind a no gun (no fly) database that requires no court order and no notification of why you are even on the list?
Won't mind real ID and the database attached to it for your weapons?
Won't mind an inspection and verification of ownership and permits every time you go to use your gun by a federal employee?
etc etc.

I won't even get into the things 9/11 allowed as far as the govt ability to "spy" on you in the name of airline and terroristic safety.

[Kellhound]

Sorry but are criminals not gun owners?

Gun owners good guys till they commit a criminal act then they are disowned like they never were a legitimate gun owner to begin with. I know the pattern.




Good then you won't mind a no gun (no fly) database that requires no court order and no notification of why you are even on the list?
Won't mind real ID and the database attached to it for your weapons?
Won't mind an inspection and verification of ownership and permits every time you go to use your gun by a federal employee?
etc etc.

I won't even get into the things 9/11 allowed as far as the govt ability to "spy" on you in the name of airline and terroristic safety.

Basically, you just like to give criminals a free pass based on the tools they use.

The number of people on a list that can't own a gun dwarfs the no fly list. You have to provide ID, sign a questionnaire, and go through a background check every time you buy a firearm from a commercial seller. And owning a firearm is a Constitutional right, flying is not.

Try attacking the criminals and demanding they be dealt with harshly instead of attacking an inanimate object.

[Zan15]

Try attacking the criminals and demanding they be dealt with harshly instead of attacking an inanimate object.

Or how about attacking both the user and the tool?
You know you can do more than one thing at a time right?

Just like we did after the bombing in OK City. Attacked users and the tools they used through more strict regulations.

The number of people on a list that can't own a gun dwarfs the no fly list. You have to provide ID, sign a questionnaire, and go through a background check every time you buy a firearm from a commercial seller. And owning a firearm is a Constitutional right, flying is not.

Umm, i would like to see the data on that but of course the no fly list is super secret uber no looky no looky. So you are just assuming.

Also the The right to travel is protected under your constitutional rights (tied to several different area's and amendments).

Its been tested over and over again one of the biggest test was against "communist".


But we've been over this before in this thread in length.

[Kellhound]

Or how about attacking both the user and the tool?
You know you can do more than one thing at a time right?

Just like we did after the bombing in OK City. Attacked users and the tools they used through more strict regulations.




Umm, i would like to see the data on that but of course the no fly list is super secret uber no looky no looky. So you are just assuming.

Also the The right to travel is protected under your constitutional rights (tied to several different area's and amendments).

Its been tested over and over again one of the biggest test was against "communist".


But we've been over this before in this thread in length.

There is no need to attack the tool when the criminals are given a slap on the hand. Crush the criminals with an iron hand, then, and only then, look to restrict the tool. But people like you dont want to crush the criminal, you want to baby them.

There are over 6 million people on the no gun list because of felonies, 7.5 billion on the list because they do not have the residency needed.

The right to travel is protected, not the means.

[Zan15]

There is no need to attack the tool when the criminals are given a slap on the hand. Crush the criminals with an iron hand, then, and only then, look to restrict the tool. But people like you dont want to crush the criminal, you want to baby them.

There are over 6 million people on the no gun list because of felonies, 7.5 billion on the list because they do not have the residency needed.

The right to travel is protected, not the means.

Really show me one example of where I have ever said anything about not being tough on criminals, or for that matter ever attacked the current penalties on criminals in gun cases???
Don't worry I'll wait.

There are over 6 million people on the no gun list because of felonies, 7.5 billion on the list because they do not have the residency needed.

.

Cute. Well there is 7.5 billion on the no fly list because they are unable to get a Real ID.
See I can play games too!


BTW Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms, but it does prevent you from flying!! Talk about being soft on criminals huh? Can't even get the NRA and republicans to support that little change.

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The right to travel is protected, not the means.

LOL stretching Militia to everyone is ok, but travel to means is not.

[Kellhound]

Really show me one example of where I have ever said anything about not being tough on criminals, or for that matter ever attacked the current penalties on criminals in gun cases???
Don't worry I'll wait.





Cute. Well there is 7.5 billion on the no fly list because they are unable to get a Real ID.
See I can play games too!


BTW Membership in a terrorist organization does not prohibit a person from possessing firearms, but it does prevent you from flying!! Talk about being soft on criminals huh? Can't even get the NRA and republicans to support that little change.

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LOL stretching Militia to everyone is ok, but travel to means is not.

The fact you are ok with the lenient handling of gun criminals proves my point.

Nope, a passport from another country is fully acceptable for flying into, out of, and inside the US. But that is not the case to buy a firearm. The no fly list covers the entire world's population, and so do the laws governing who can buy a firearm in the US.

You have politicians declaring the NRA a terrorist organization and wonder why they don't support it

The Second calls it a right of the people, not a right of the militia, and it has been legally established that “the people” “refers to all members of the political community.” The right to travel is legally "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them." Being banned from flying does not prevent that. Plus, it is similar to the reasonable restriction against criminals owning guns.

[Zan15]

The fact you are ok with the lenient handling of gun criminals proves my point.

.

Again you keep saying this but provided no fact that i am lenient at all. Actually provided no facts on any position at all.

[Kellhound]

Again you keep saying this but provided no fact that i am lenient at all. Actually provided no facts on any position at all.

You prefer to put the emphasis on the gun not the criminal and call for more gun control but not stricter laws against the criminals. So yes, you are soft on criminals. Make any intentional attempt to offensively shoot another person a mandatory life in prison w/o parole, as well as being a convicted felon in possession life w/o parole (i.e, you touch one you go away forever) and see if that has an impact before going after the guns.

[Zan15]

The fact you are ok with the lenient handling of gun criminals proves my point.

Nope, a passport from another country is fully acceptable for flying into, out of, and inside the US. But that is not the case to buy a firearm. The no fly list covers the entire world's population, and so do the laws governing who can buy a firearm in the US.

You have politicians declaring the NRA a terrorist organization and wonder why they don't support it

The Second calls it a right of the people, not a right of the militia, and it has been legally established that “the people” “refers to all members of the political community.” The right to travel is legally "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them." Being banned from flying does not prevent that. Plus, it is similar to the reasonable restriction against criminals owning guns.

Sorry I'll decrease that down to 7.35 billion that cant get a passport either.

Pols also claim democrats and republican parties are terrorist orgs....no one takes them seriously.

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You prefer to put the emphasis on the gun not the criminal and call for more gun control but not stricter laws against the criminals. So yes, you are soft on criminals. Make any intentional attempt to offensively shoot another person a mandatory life in prison w/o parole, as well as being a convicted felon in possession life w/o parole (i.e, you touch one you go away forever) and see if that has an impact before going after the guns.

AGAIN..... where have i stated that i don't support stricter laws against criminals?

You are making blanket statements on assumptions out the ass.

oh right because i am not a hard core 2a republican, must be your basic theory on life.

[Kellhound]

Sorry I'll decrease that down to 7.35 billion that cant get a passport either.

Pols also claim democrats and republican parties are terrorist orgs....no one takes them seriously.

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AGAIN..... where have i stated that i don't support stricter laws against criminals?

You are making blanket statements on assumptions out the ass.

oh right because i am not a hard core 2a republican, must be your basic theory on life.

It does not need to be a US passport, but you are just upset you are wrong in this case.


I have seen no push from you to crack down on criminals, but you are very vocal about guns. It is not a very big stretch to see which you are more concerned with.

[Coolthulhu]

Sorry but are criminals not gun owners?

Gun owners good guys till they commit a criminal act then they are disowned like they never were a legitimate gun owner to begin with. I know the pattern.

You seem to bundle together legitimate gun owners who then turn criminals with people who are criminals in the first place and procure themselves guns, either illegally or due to flaws in the system. These were never legitimate gun owners to begin with.

[the game]

Remington is having issues right now, declaring bankruptcy again and possibly selling to Navajo. I'm not sure if they're producing right now, and what the future production might be. Navajo have said they plan on moving stuff (which killed Rem's quality for a while when Cerberus did it) and will probably be discontinuing a lot of stuff they don't like.

In any case, Mossberg and others make a fine shotgun as well, so there will be options available.

That must be why they're sold out everywhere I look then.

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Sorry but are criminals not gun owners?

Gun owners good guys till they commit a criminal act then they are disowned like they never were a legitimate gun owner to begin with. I know the pattern.




Good then you won't mind a no gun (no fly) database that requires no court order and no notification of why you are even on the list?
Won't mind real ID and the database attached to it for your weapons?
Won't mind an inspection and verification of ownership and permits every time you go to use your gun by a federal employee?
etc etc.

I won't even get into the things 9/11 allowed as far as the govt ability to "spy" on you in the name of airline and terroristic safety.

That's called innocent until proven guilty. That's how the law works. I know liberals like to think everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Probably why you're confused.

[Zan15]

It does not need to be a US passport, but you are just upset you are wrong in this case.


I have seen no push from you to crack down on criminals, but you are very vocal about guns. It is not a very big stretch to see which you are more concerned with.

well at least you admitted you assumed the hell out of my criminal justice stance... sigh.

BTW feel free to check out my comments on political criminals in the current administration and see how soft on criminals i am.
Also on terrorist, mass shooters, gun owners, corporate and financial fraud...etc etc.


they day i get upset at being wrong on a computer forum is the day i walk into the woods and never come back out

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That's called innocent until proven guilty. That's how the law works. I know liberals like to think everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Probably why you're confused.

good old generalizations and assumptions.

Funny the current non liberal administration and the republican party have been very fast to chant "lock them up" on how many hundereds of people and orginizations with no proof of guilt (even after 12 investigations in some cases).

But you know, Lubrals.

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You seem to bundle together legitimate gun owners who then turn criminals with people who are criminals in the first place and procure themselves guns, either illegally or due to flaws in the system. These were never legitimate gun owners to begin with.

so you got a breakdown already on how many of those people were legitimate gun owners and whom were not?
Because i sure have not seen anything released to that matter yet on the recient violent weekends/weeks in a few cities.

a "flaw in the system" does not make them an illegitimate gun owner just like tax loopholes do not make you a illegal tax dodger.

i make the point that anyone who owns the gun can end up killing someone.
You are only good, till you are not and unfortuntaly when you become "not good" adding a gun to the mix only makes it worse.


Case in point, i am sure this guy's been good for the 8 decades he's been alive
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pictured.html

Girl, 11, who was gunned down with her father, 55, after their 82-year-old neighbor grabbed his two pistols and opened fire because he was angry his dog was declared dangerous

[Kellhound]

well at least you admitted you assumed the hell out of my criminal justice stance... sigh.

BTW feel free to check out my comments on political criminals in the current administration and see how soft on criminals i am.
Also on terrorist, mass shooters, gun owners, corporate and financial fraud...etc etc.


they day i get upset at being wrong on a computer forum is the day i walk into the woods and never come back out

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good old generalizations and assumptions.

Funny the current non liberal administration and the republican party have been very fast to chant "lock them up" on how many hundereds of people and orginizations with no proof of guilt (even after 12 investigations in some cases).

But you know, Lubrals.

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so you got a breakdown already on how many of those people were legitimate gun owners and whom were not?
Because i sure have not seen anything released to that matter yet on the recient violent weekends/weeks in a few cities.

a "flaw in the system" does not make them an illegitimate gun owner just like tax loopholes do not make you a illegal tax dodger.

i make the point that anyone who owns the gun can end up killing someone.
You are only good, till you are not and unfortuntaly when you become "not good" adding a gun to the mix only makes it worse.


Case in point, i am sure this guy's been good for the 8 decades he's been alive
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pictured.html

Girl, 11, who was gunned down with her father, 55, after their 82-year-old neighbor grabbed his two pistols and opened fire because he was angry his dog was declared dangerous

It is clear you see all gun owners as criminals. I also see you did not bother to include "normal" murders in your "hard on crime stance", but seem to put terrorism, gun ownership, mass murder and white collar crime at the same level.....

"I make the point that anyone who owns (insert a wide range of physical objects) can end up killing someone." You really are more concerned about the weapon than the intent.....


A study by the Department of Justice on violent felony convictions in the 75 largest counties in the US between 1990 and 2002 found that 58% of convicted murders had a prior conviction and 67% had a prior arrest.

[Coolthulhu]

so you got a breakdown already on how many of those people were legitimate gun owners and whom were not?
Because i sure have not seen anything released to that matter yet on the recient violent weekends/weeks in a few cities.

a "flaw in the system" does not make them an illegitimate gun owner just like tax loopholes do not make you a illegal tax dodger.

i make the point that anyone who owns the gun can end up killing someone.
You are only good, till you are not and unfortuntaly when you become "not good" adding a gun to the mix only makes it worse.


Case in point, i am sure this guy's been good for the 8 decades he's been alive
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pictured.html

Girl, 11, who was gunned down with her father, 55, after their 82-year-old neighbor grabbed his two pistols and opened fire because he was angry his dog was declared dangerous

A breakdown? Your analytic capabilities are comparable to your knowledge (or rather lack thereof) about this topic. If someone who isn't supposed to for one reason or another ends up with his hands on the gun, then he isn't a legitimate gun owner by mere definition. The only difference is whether to fault the system, which I suppose accounts for the minority of cases, or the black market.

As to the brilliant point you make, I'll just point out that anyone can end up killing someone period. A gun, a hammer, a chemical, a car, your bare hands, a kitchen knife, a broken glass bottle, a shank, a syringe, a rope... your bare hands. And I hate to break it to you further because it must come as a shocking revelation to you but everyone is good till they are not. It's what our legal systems are based on.

[Stormdash]

Remington is having issues right now, declaring bankruptcy again and possibly selling to Navajo. I'm not sure if they're producing right now, and what the future production might be. Navajo have said they plan on moving stuff (which killed Rem's quality for a while when Cerberus did it) and will probably be discontinuing a lot of stuff they don't like.

In any case, Mossberg and others make a fine shotgun as well, so there will be options available.

There was a 1911 I wanted very much.. the Para Ordnance Black Ops Recon. came in 14.45 or 9.18 double stack. It vanished from the market long before I had the money to actually spend on it. Then Remington, having acquired Para, basically started making it again as the R1 Recon. And pretty much right as I was ready to buy it you could never find them anymore. I don't know if they made like 20 each or if it's just the most in-demand damn pistol ever but I kind of irrationally dislike Remington for that little tease.

My shotgun is a Mossberg 500, can't go wrong.