When Will The Alt Mag'har Realize That Lightforged And Lightbound Are Not The Same?

[Combatbutler]

Well, they aren't the only race to take existential threats as non issues that result in genocide of their race. Look at the High elves and the Scourge as another example.

To some degree ,but not really close, to elaborate a bit.

If the high elves had known about the scourge for tens of thousands of years,it had hunted them and forced them to relocate again and again slaughtering the people they met, then eventually settling in Quel'thalas building their society and then not having any kind of interaction with their neighbors, not telling them about the scourge and just ignoring everything.

But the thing is the high elves were always involved, they send troops to support Lordaeron during the scourge outbreak and had decent defenses when the scourge attacked them, what ultimately brought those down was an inside agent.


The sheer stupidity of the Draenei is on a whole different level compared to every other major race.

[Tripzzz]

To some degree ,but not really close, to elaborate a bit.

If the high elves had known about the scourge for tens of thousands of years,it had hunted them and forced them to relocate again and again slaughtering the people they met, then eventually settling in Quel'thalas building their society and then not having any kind of interaction with their neighbors, not telling them about the scourge and just ignoring everything.

But the thing is the high elves were always involved, they send troops to support Lordaeron during the scourge outbreak and had decent defenses when the scourge attacked them, what ultimately brought those down was an inside agent.


The sheer stupidity of the Draenei is on a whole different level compared to every other major race.

The end result remains the same. High elves didn't take the undead threat seriously enough and subsequently got their heads stomped so hard they rebranded themselves to never forget the ass kicking they got. At least the Draenei and especially Velen played a major role in ultimately defeating the Legion. Even if Velen being a pacifist and obedient Naaru puppet caused a shitton of problems along the way.

This brings up the problem with neutral factions. The Forsaken and Blood elves with Slyvanus as commander should have been the leading face of the Horde forces against the Lich King while the Knights of the Silver Hand + Jaina should have led the Alliance.

Same thing in Legion with the Orcs being at the forefront of the Horde defense against the Legion invasion and the Draenei the Alliance equivalent. The effort should have been split, Horde defends Azeroth from invasions while the Draenei take the Alliance to Argus for an offensive strategy. But blizzard is too lazy.

[Saltysquidoon]

This brings up the problem with neutral factions. The Forsaken and Blood elves with Slyvanus as commander should have been the leading face of the Horde forces against the Lich King while the Knights of the Silver Hand + Jaina should have led the Alliance.

It triggers me to this day that slyvanas, Jaina and mauradin got cucked out of the LK fight. But literallywhorion and the coldsteelbringer were included.

[Combatbutler]

The end result remains the same. High elves didn't take the undead threat seriously enough and subsequently got their heads stomped so hard they rebranded themselves to never forget the ass kicking they got. At least the Draenei and especially Velen played a major role in ultimately defeating the Legion. Even if Velen being a pacifist and obedient Naaru puppet caused a shitton of problems along the way.

Draenei dumbfuckery remains in a league on its own, even with everything considered, it is 25k years of consistent stupidity.

This brings up the problem with neutral factions. The Forsaken and Blood elves with Slyvanus as commander should have been the leading face of the Horde forces against the Lich King while the Knights of the Silver Hand + Jaina should have led the Alliance.

The problem is rule of cool and inconsistency

Same thing in Legion with the Orcs being at the forefront of the Horde defense against the Legion invasion and the Draenei the Alliance equivalent.

The draenei were at the forefront in legion, they were trampled down by the eredar, so bad they had just part of one wing in their capital left.

The effort should have been split, Horde defends Azeroth from invasions while the Draenei take the Alliance to Argus for an offensive strategy. But blizzard is too lazy.

I wouldn't trust the draenei with any crucial task, considering their track record, the Illidari should have taken charge to be honest.

[Tripzzz]

Draenei dumbfuckery remains in a league on its own, even with everything considered, it is 25k years of consistent stupidity.



The problem is rule of cool and inconsistency



The draenei were at the forefront in legion, they were trampled down by the eredar, so bad they had just part of one wing in their capital left.



I wouldn't trust the draenei with any crucial task, considering their track record, the Illidari should have taken charge to be honest.

Not really. The Draenei are pacifist and obedient Naaru followers. That they turn the other cheek and run away when the Naaru tells them does make sense.

It still cements the fact the blood elves got shit on by the Scourge and did not do anything noteworthy to get their justified revenge. Unlike the Draenei who did alot to help defeat the Legion in the end.

That's my point. They Draenei were at the forefront for both factions when they should have been Alliance exclusive.

[Selastan]

They aren't confusing the two, they just know that the only good naaru is a naaru is a dead naaru.

[Combatbutler]

Not really. The Draenei are pacifist and obedient Naaru followers. That they turn the other cheek and run away when the Naaru tells them does make sense.

Which makes them a brain-damaged society, undeserving of survival, all stakes considered.

It still cements the fact the blood elves got shit on by the Scourge and did not do anything noteworthy to get their justified revenge

They helped by almost destroying the lich king, just after their homeland had been devastated, forcing Arthas to jump through quite a few hoops to make it in time, so they did try and almost succeeded.

.Unlike the Draenei who did appt to help defeat the Legion in the end
That's my point. They Draenei were at the forefront when they should have been Alliance exclusive.

You mean the pitiful rest of them, the whole district? The Draenei played a crucial role true, they provided the taxi, the heavy lifting was done by someone else.

[Nnyco]

Different universe, same nutjobs tbh.

[Tripzzz]

Which makes them a brain-damaged society, undeserving of survival, all stakes considered.



They helped by almost destroying the lich king, just after their homeland had been devastated, forcing Arthas to jump through quite a few hoops to make it in time, so they did try and almost succeeded.




You mean the pitiful rest of them, the whole district? The Draenei played a crucial role true, they provided the taxi, the heavy lifting was done by someone else.

Not really, they eventually learned(at least Velen did) to not just blindly follow others. Literally a major point in Legion was Illidan confronting Velen about it. It explains their previous demeanor and inaction but no longer binds them.

When did the blood elves "almost" defeat Arthas? You mean when Slyvanus poisoned him and let him escape? Almost isn't good enough.

Yeah, sure. I'm sure the Lightforged Warframes that literally melt demons and legion spaceships like butter didn't contribute anything to the Legion's defeat. LMAO!!!

[Combatbutler]

Not really, they eventually learned(at least Velen did) to not just blindly follow others. Literally a major point in Legion was Illidan confronting Velen about it. It explains their previous demeanor and inaction but no longer binds them.

Learning to barely think for themselves after 25k years of sheer dumbfuckery is not really an argument in their favor, not to mention they go right back to being such awesome people, by literally leaving their neighbors to burn, who had gifted them the Islands they currently live on. Such awesome and wholesome folks

When did the blood elves "almost" defeat Arthas? You mean when Slyvanus poisoned him and let him escape? Almost isn't good enough.

No I mean Arthas racing to literally save the Lich King, from the blood elf and Naga army that had conquered Outland previously.

Yeah, sure. I'm sure it the Lightforged Warframes that literally melt demons and legion spaceships like butter didn't contribute anything the the Legion defeat. LMAO!!!

Those are lightforged, you know Naaru technology.

[Tripzzz]

Learning to barely think for themselves after 25k years of sheer dumbfuckery is not really an argument in their favor, not to mention they go right back to being such awesome people, by literally leaving their neighbors to burn, who had gifted them the Islands they currently live on. Such awesome and wholesome folks




No I mean Arthas racing to literally save the Lich King, from the blood elf and Naga army that had conquered Outland previously.



Those are lightforged, you know Naaru technology.

You know that was 100% bullshit. That's why the Vindicaar does not even have a lore reason for not helping the NEs and Danuser himself said it was because they don't know what to do because Danuser is a fucking pinhead. But I'll give you that.

"Almost" still isn't good enough.

Lmao. You're trying too hard. The Naaru chose the Draenei as their followers. Why is it that when the Naaru tell the Draenei to run away it's the Draenei fault for listening, yet when the Naaru tell the Draenei to fight the Legion and give them the tech to do so, it's now the Naaru's credit. Draenei were chosen by the Naaru to pilot the Warframes. Stop with the pretzel logic. Naaru do not pilot the warframes.

[Combatbutler]

"Almost" still isn't good enough.

Well at least they seriously tried, which is the core argument, something the Draenei did not. Ultimately they just love to sit on their hands and ignore the world burning around them, it is a very consistent character trait.

Lmao. You're trying too hard. The Naaru chose the Draenei as their followers. Why is it that when the Naaru tell the Draenei to run away it's the Draenei fault for listening, yet when the Naaru tell the Draenei to fight the Legion and give them the tech to do so, it's now the Naaru's credit. Draenei were chosen by the Naaru to pilot the Warframes. Stop with the pretzel logic. Naaru do not pilot the warframes.

Anyone can pilot such a warframe, they are not Draenei specific, nor their great achievement. In fact most of draenei technology isn't their own it was given to them, they hardly developed things themselves, they stagnated. Ultimately draenei are just the latest stooges for the Naaru, they were not the first servant race and won't be the last either. Not to mention Lightforged aren't the same group the whole argument is about, since these guys actually tried.

It is all about Velen and his merry band of parasites.

[Tripzzz]

Well at least they seriously tried, which is the core argument, something the Draenei did not. Ultimately they just love to sit on their hands and ignore the world burning around them, it is a very consistent character trait.




Anyone can pilot such a warframe, they are not Draenei specific, nor their great achievement. In fact most of draenei technology isn't their own it was given to them, they hardly developed things themselves, they stagnated. Ultimately draenei are just the latest stooges for the Naaru, they were not the first servant race and won't be the last either. Not to mention Lightforged aren't the same group the whole argument is about, since these guys actually tried.

It is all about Velen and his merry band of parasites.

Ok. I definitely see that. But it does make sense given the Naaru's role in their story.


All that is true, but the Draenei are the ones who have been piloting the Warframes for thousands of years. Which means the race as a whole did have members actively attacking the Legion, killing thousands of demons.

[Feanoro]

The space goats have consistently suffered some of the worst of writer laziness in WoW. After Metzen's epic screwup in their introduction, he basically didn't touch them again, leaving it at "they ran away". If I had to guess, half out of embarrassment, half out of being too busy wanking over Thrall and the Horde.

They're finally used in WoD, only for AU Velen to die in a quest, and for Yrel to have some of the most obnoxious voice acting since Sindragosa. Her story was butchered, which in no way helped, ending with best buddies with Grom, because Lord knows orcs cannot be held responsible for genocide.

Legion was full Danuser/Golden expanding Metzen's napkin notes with their usual reverence and thorough research of the existing stories. Just like Danuser likes to crow that BfA was nuanced, he probably has no idea how idiotic he made the Draenei look.

[Ielenia]

The difference is the orcs were corrupted by demon blood and weren't exactly of sound mind. The draenei were totally of sound mind when they became zealots.

As far as I know, both races were of "sound mind" until moments before their conversion (drinking demon blood for orcs, accepting "lightbound-ness" for draenei). After all, both accepted the conversion willingly, even if tricked (in case of orcs). But how do you know that the lightbound draenei still retain their "sound mind" after conversion? For all we know, the "lightbound" process may influence the AU draenei's minds and bodies just as much the "demon corruption" process did for the MU orcs.

[TheRevenantHero]

As far as I know, both races were of "sound mind" until moments before their conversion (drinking demon blood for orcs, accepting "lightbound-ness" for draenei). After all, both accepted the conversion willingly, even if tricked (in case of orcs). But how do you know that the lightbound draenei still retain their "sound mind" after conversion? For all we know, the "lightbound" process may influence the AU draenei's minds and bodies just as much the "demon corruption" process did for the MU orcs.

The way Blizzard wrote it, at least how I wrote it, it wasn't immediate. The draenei became zealots over time and began thinking it was either join or die. I didn't seem like a demon blood situation. You could be right. It could have been them being controlled but it doesn't seem like it was with what Blizzard has shown us.

[Ielenia]

The way Blizzard wrote it, at least how I wrote it, it wasn't immediate. The draenei became zealots over time and began thinking it was either join or die. I didn't seem like a demon blood situation. You could be right. It could have been them being controlled but it doesn't seem like it was with what Blizzard has shown us.

I don't think it was "being controlled", for both cases. I don't think either the orcs or the draenei were being "controlled".

The way I see it, the demon blood only amplified certain aspects of the orcs (aggressiveness and bloodlust) but didn't outright control them like "mind control" or "possession" would. It just heavily influenced their minds. In that sense, I don't find it far-fetched that the Light, that the Naaru, they do the exact same thing, amplifying certain aspects of the draenei (aggressiveness and zealotry) without outright controlling them, just heavily influencing their minds.

I believe a Lightbound draenei believes they are "in control" of their mind and actions just as much as a fel-drunk orc believed they were "in control".

What supports this idea is how the lightbound orcs turn in on their kin after being "converted'.