"Forced" or "Mandatory" covenants

[Echocho]

Yes you do fine, but you would do better if you would bring the fotm than a survival hunter. That's what is said.

Yeah but if you're killing bosses at a pace you're fine with and having fun while doing it do you really need to do better if you'll hate doing it?

My mythic team would fall apart the second someone forced us to play classes, specs or build we didn't feel comfortable with or didn't enjoy playing so the cost of trying to do better would mean we wouldn't clear a single raid because everyone would just quit.

[Krakan]

I'm not sure if they have, but to a certain degree, they should. I think heroic raids and Mythic dungeons, to a point, SHOULD be doable by any combination of specs and abilities. And I'll wager a pint that is the case, even today. I don't think there is anything wrong with Mythic raids, really high keys, and Gladiator level PvP needing more specific spec/gear/enhancement combos, it is meant to be challenging.

Then why can't we make all of these derpy alternative progression systems only work in the open world and save us all the headache?

[Specialka]

Yeah but if you're killing bosses at a pace you're fine with and having fun while doing it do you really need to do better if you'll hate doing it?

My mythic team would fall apart the second someone forced us to play classes, specs or build we didn't feel comfortable with or didn't enjoy playing so the cost of trying to do better would mean we wouldn't clear a single raid because everyone would just quit.

Obviously, but then why all the mess with the covenants for ppl that like to min/max ?

[Echocho]

Obviously, but then why all the mess with the covenants for ppl that like to min/max ?

It's not made for people who like to min/max, it's made for people who like RPGs and meaningful choices in building their character.

[Krakan]

It's not made for people who like to min/max, it's made for people who like RPGs and meaningful choices in building their character.

Except its incrediblely unlikely it wont be tuned to min maxing your choices.

Of people love rpgs so much why are they playing wow?

[Echocho]

Except its incrediblely unlikely it wont be tuned to min maxing your choices.

Of people love rpgs so much why are they playing wow?

Habit? The game used to be better?

[Saltysquidoon]

That awkward moment where Preach booty blasts MMO-C into orbit.

Lo, He saw all that He had made, and behold, it was good.

[kaminaris]

That awkward moment where Preach booty blasts MMO-C into orbit.

Lo, He saw all that He had made, and behold, it was good.

Oh boy, Preach and his own bubble: "unanimously agreed" "haven't seen a single person", good lord what a load of bullshit.

First of all, yes it will only affect the very top players because at the end of the day, where rest of guilds progresses bosses they are already overgearing content by far.
For vast majority of people it won't matter unless blizzard fucks up numerical balance by more than 20%.

But this has been problem in the past with difference in classes and the only solution is to tell playerbase:
If we see something overperforming it will be nerfed within a week, so getting overly focused on what sims best is going to be your downfall

Long story release as is, do numerical balance on weekly basis. They should grow a balls and simply nerf/buff each week.

[Sephirosu]

That's the very core of the problem thou. Given blizzard's track record with borrowed power, people are worried that whatever they choose because it simed better will be nerfed by the next tier or worst case scenario mid tier. That kind of defeats the purpose of the whole "meaningful choice" if your choice becomes nullified by blizzard oversight.

[Echocho]

That's the very core of the problem thou. Given blizzard's track record with borrowed power, people are worried that whatever they choose because it simed better will be nerfed by the next tier or worst case scenario mid tier. That kind of defeats the purpose of the whole "meaningful choice" if your choice becomes nullified by blizzard oversight.

A meaningful choice doesn't automatically mean it's the choice that does the most damage. Choosing a class is a meaningful choice, are you saying that only picking the class that sims best currently is the correct one?

[Sephirosu]

A meaningful choice doesn't automatically mean it's the choice that does the most damage. Choosing a class is a meaningful choice, are you saying that only picking the class that sims best currently is the correct one?

Hmm no that's not what I meant at all. Just as how a meaningful choice for some means picking the covenant that has the best mog for them, it also can mean the covenant that makes some do the most dmg for X situation. Nerf that dmg and you have a bunch of unhappy campers that just got robbed of their "meaningful choice".

[iinverse]

But I am sure plenty of rogueless groups are getting the best gear possible by gearing those 15’s (Am I right in saying that there is no power reward for beating 16+?)

Actually rewards goes up till 25 key (weekly residuum and number of gear pieces in the completion chest).

[LorDC]

For vast majority of people it won't matter unless blizzard fucks up numerical balance by more than 20%.

Meanwhile on a front page: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...rs-DLC-731-732

[Echocho]

Lets make 3 mains so you can use the right covenant for m+ raids and pvp, sounds like fun.

You can do that if you want but it's far from necessary.

[VinceVega]

You can do that if you want but it's far from necessary.

Well Mythic+ and raids you can do in your own pace. If you are a Mythic raider you will definitely choose the raid covenant. Be at it is.
You will still be able do play and probably compete in Mythic+ but not against someone who chose the right one.

But again... your pace your choice.

But PvP... you will loose hard if you don't choose the right one. There is no right pace here. You play against other players. So for that simple reason i would like that all this rental power shenanigans should be completely disabled in PvP.

[taishar68]

So now that the beta will be out next week, and more and more people can play it and test it out, we should get a much better idea on how using the covenant abilities feel for real, especially when they open up M+ and PvP testing. I think, due to the mobility of the Venthyr ability and the concerns on how some of the utility oriented abilities will affect PvP, that those areas should be the most scrutinized. None of the specific covenant abilities struck me as being all powerful in a raid environment, but naturally we'll see theorycrafting on which class abilities do the best and how that informs many players decisions on what they will choose.

After watching the stream I am curious to see how the overall covenant experience affects player choice; say you want to choose Venthyr because your focus is M+, and you want that teleport...but then what if the Night Fae Soulbinds offer your specific class a huge boost in throughput, or mitigation? I'll say this, regardless of how much anyone likes or dislikes the system itself; Blizzard will have done well if they make it harder to choose between covenants because they all offer something worth having, as opposed to taking the path of least resistance, or put another way, the lesser of...four, I guess...evils.

[kaminaris]

Meanwhile on a front page: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...rs-DLC-731-732

And what stops you from taking 27 IS? Not to mention it's not practical.

[Alcsaar]

what a garbage OP...

I can already see the mythic+ pugs demanding certain covenants for trash skipping/etc.

[Krakan]

And what stops you from taking 27 IS? Not to mention it's not practical.

Its 90k echoes and one of the rarest corruption drops. It also scales with ilv.

So while it's by far the most practical and powerful build being a unstoppable insta win barring insanely bad rng it takes a ton of set up.

You can't do this without at minimum of full 465 gear and days of farming.

[iinverse]

And what stops you from taking 27 IS? Not to mention it's not practical.

Its not about taking. Its about Blizzard's balance of borrowing powers for the people who said "oh, borriwng powers are just 10% of your powers, blizz defilitely can balance it so choice will not matter!" So... no. They can't balance things now. Not with current dev team. And your choice will have a great impact, especially with first balance patches.