Chronicle volume 4?

[Verdugo]

- but they can't alter or change events already chronicled, as it were.

Ahahahaha, you believe that.

[Aucald]

Ahahahaha, you believe that.

Well, they could, sure - they can change anything they want. But it wouldn't be very well received given that solid canon already exists for it, so there's a strong downward pressure not to change it.

[Verdugo]

Well, they could, sure - they can change anything they want. But it wouldn't be very well received given that solid canon already exists for it, so there's a strong downward pressure not to change it.

It was already mentioned that they keep the writers isolated from "the mean internet" so that they cannot be influenced. They only surround themselves with fanboys that cant wait to polish their buttcrack and any negativity is promptly deleted.

They dont give a shit about reception. They write for themselves first, rest of the peasants second.

[Aucald]

It was already mentioned that they keep the writers isolated from "the mean internet" so that they cannot be influenced. They only surround themselves with fanboys that cant wait to polish their buttcrack and any negativity is promptly deleted.

They dont give a shit about reception.

The changes and development arc of Shadowlands belies pretty much all of the above. Keeping the writing isolated from the Internet is probably a good idea, though; writing via committee is bad enough - you don't need the committee to consist of nearly everyone in the world trying to shoehorn in their own perspectives.

[Feanoro]

The changes and development arc of Shadowlands belies pretty much all of the above. Keeping the writing isolated from the Internet is probably a good idea, though; writing via committee is bad enough - you don't need the committee to consist of nearly everyone in the world trying to shoehorn in their own perspectives.

That's called management watching reactions after a failed expansion and trying to please customers. It's been explicitly stated in interviews that the writing department is isolated. I don't consider isolation from criticism a good thing, either. Sure, they're not bound to answer those criticisms, but BfA shows what happens when they largely ignore them. Expect SL to be full of fanservice like Legion was, because management isn't happy with an expansion that failed almost as hard as WoD.

Also, for once I have to agree with Verdugo, it's hilarious that you believe they can't change events. So long as it doesn't affect the bottom line, they're free to write whatever garbage they want. The minute subs start tanking and the story is mentioned, the leash gets jerked. Anyone who doesn't understand that hasn't had a job beyond flipping burgers.

[Aucald]

That's called management watching reactions after a failed expansion and trying to please customers. It's been explicitly stated in interviews that the writing department is isolated. I don't consider isolation from criticism a good thing, either. Sure, they're not bound to answer those criticisms, but BfA shows what happens when they largely ignore them. Expect SL to be full of fanservice like Legion was, because management isn't happy with an expansion that failed almost as hard as WoD.

Also known was reaction to criticism, right? It also stands that the writing team isn't fully isolated, either; they're going to have to work with the game systems developers and other aspects of the production - so while they may not be forward-facing the barrage of Internet criticism, curated criticism is still going to get back to them. Plus, almost all these individuals are somewhat active on social media, so they can certainly see criticism at any time. If anyone thinks the writing team exists on some island they've never been part of a development team before.

Also, for once I have to agree with Verdugo, it's hilarious that you believe they can't change events. So long as it doesn't affect the bottom line, they're free to write whatever garbage they want. The minute subs start tanking and the story is mentioned, the leash gets jerked. Anyone who doesn't understand that hasn't had a job beyond flipping burgers.

I've already addressed that particular aspect of exaggeration. They've retconned the story before, they could certainly do so again if they chose, but Chronicle still exerts downward pressure against it.

[Verdugo]

Plus, almost all these individuals are somewhat active on social media, so they can certainly see criticism at any time.

Have you seen Goldens twitter some time after the Big Teldrassil BBQ? That shit is more heavily moderated than r/donald when it comes to criticism.

[Feanoro]

Also known was reaction to criticism, right? It also stands that the writing team isn't fully isolated, either; they're going to have to work with the game systems developers and other aspects of the production - so while they may not be forward-facing the barrage of Internet criticism, curated criticism is still going to get back to them. Plus, almost all these individuals are somewhat active on social media, so they can certainly see criticism at any time. If anyone thinks the writing team exists on some island they've never been part of a development team before.

So you're effectively repeating back to me my own point that management will let them know the customers aren't happy, while adding a bizarre barb about being on an island. Got it.

I've already addressed that particular aspect of exaggeration. They've retconned the story before, they could certainly do so again if they chose, but Chronicle still exerts downward pressure against it.

They retconned it from being the authoritative Doylist source into a Watsonian one. Chronicle has all the pressure of a damp rag.

[Aucald]

Have you seen Goldens twitter some time after the Big Teldrassil BBQ? That shit is more heavily moderated than r/donald when it comes to criticism.

That fact that it's moderated *for others* seeing it by no means implies she isn't seeing it or it's not being related back to her. Also, I have seen Golden's Twitter and considering some of the invective that gets hurled at her daily by unhinged people I can certainly see why she would moderate it. We live in an age were voice actors and actresses get death threats because of things their characters did in video games - moderation is pretty much a requirement anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

So you're effectively repeating back to me my own point that management will let them know the customers aren't happy, while adding a bizarre barb about being on an island. Got it.

Not sure how that's a "barb," to be honest - not everyone has experience with development, after all; so they may genuinely not understand how it works. The various teams working on aspects of a developed project can't exist as islands unto themselves. That's one of the fundamentals of the project development life cycle.

They retconned it from being the authoritative Doylist source into a Watsonian one. Chronicle has all the pressure of a damp rag.

Doylist vs. Watsonian doesn't really change the authoritative gradient of a source of canon. Events still happen, plot changes still occur, etc. etc. It does give them some leeway to make certain types of changes, which is probably the very reason for the change - but completely invalidating the canon established by Chronicle would be difficult to justify, hence the pressure.

[Kyphael]

Sorry, the Titans can't offer us their POV as they get angry when the writers retcon stuff

Lol was my first thought. Chronicles became a joke after Blizzard said that. Talk about shooting yourself in the face.

[Combatbutler]

T
Doylist vs. Watsonian doesn't really change the authoritative gradient of a source of canon. Events still happen, plot changes still occur, etc. etc. It does give them some leeway to make certain types of changes, which is probably the very reason for the change - but completely invalidating the canon established by Chronicle would be difficult to justify, hence the pressure.

The lore was a convoluted mess, due to their pitiful approach of consistency. By reducing chronicles standing to basically just another book, instead of the very lore foundation, they just kept going with the same old shit, meaning the lore is just as chaotic as it used to be and chronicle was meaningless.

[Aucald]

The lore was a convoluted mess, due to their pitiful approach of consistency. By reducing chronicles standing to basically just another book, instead of the very lore foundation, they just kept going with the same old shit, meaning the lore is just as chaotic as it used to be and chronicle was meaningless.

Chronicle still organized the lore from any number of individual sources into an easy-to-use reference, especially the lore from older sources like WC1 and WC2, as well as introducing the previously unknown creation-myth of the Warcraft cosmos and any number of heretofore unknown elements. That's a lot of mileage for something you claim as "meaningless."

As I said above, I didn't like the perceived downgrade either - but as a resource the Chronicle volumes are still important, still canon, and still needed.

[Combatbutler]

Chronicle still organized the lore from any number of individual sources into an easy-to-use reference, especially the lore from older sources like WC1 and WC2, as well as introducing the previously unknown creation-myth of the Warcraft cosmos and any number of heretofore unknown elements. That's a lot of mileage for something you claim as "meaningless."

As I said above, I didn't like the perceived downgrade either - but as a resource the Chronicle volumes are still important, still canon, and still needed.

Chronicle is meaningless in the sense, that it will be retconned by anything that follows after and contradicts it, as any other book. While Chronicle had streamlined the lore, it is already in the process of becoming obsolete, the return of blizz typical chaotic lore mess is the consequence, contradicting the very reason these books were printed to begin with, getting the lore in order for good.

[Aucald]

Chronicle is meaningless in the sense, that it will be retconned by anything that follows after and contradicts it, as any other book. While Chronicle had streamlined the lore, it is already in the process of becoming obsolete, the return of blizz typical chaotic lore mess is the consequence, contradicting the very reason these books were printed to begin with, getting the lore in order for good.

It could be retconned, sure; it would be unfortunate but it is possible. It hasn't been yet, and nothing in Shadowlands really stands to do so on its face, either. It sounds like you're presaging doom without any real evidence, simply relying on jaded cynicism in place of any actual contradictions.

[Combatbutler]

It could be retconned, sure; it would be unfortunate but it is possible. It hasn't been yet, and nothing in Shadowlands really stands to do so on its face, either. It sounds like you're presaging doom without any real evidence, simply relying on jaded cynicism in place of any actual contradictions.

You mean like the spirit healers, that were explicitly stated to be Val'kyr in chronicle, but have turned out they were Kyrians all along? Call it jaded cynicism, I call it realism due to blizz undeniable track record and piss poor handling of their overarching stories.

[Aucald]

You mean like the spirit healers, that were explicitly stated to be Val'kyr in chronicle, but have turned out they were Kyrians all along? Call it jaded cynicism, I call it realism due to blizz undeniable track record and piss poor handling of their overarching stories.

That's not necessarily a retcon, either. The Val'kyr who split with Odyn were said to "vanish into the Shadowlands," and they may well have joined the Kyrians and been reborn as Ascended. It remains that physically speaking the Val'kyr and Spirit Healers seem quite different in form, and the transition from Val'kyr of Odyn to Kyrian Spirit Healer may well account for that change.

Those two aspects of their story aren't mutually exclusive and may well be explained in Shadowlands.

[Combatbutler]

That's not necessarily a retcon, either. The Val'kyr who split with Odyn were said to "vanish into the Shadowlands," and they may well have joined the Kyrians and been reborn as Ascended. It remains that physically speaking the Val'kyr and Spirit Healers seem quite different in form, and the transition from Val'kyr of Odyn to Kyrian Spirit Healer may well account for that change.

Those two aspects of their story aren't mutually exclusive and may well be explained in Shadowlands.

Pff yeah right, keep telling yourself that.

Blizz was just lazy as usual

[Aucald]

Pff yeah right, keep telling yourself that.

It's simply that we don't know what we don't know, the story of Shadowlands hasn't been fully told yet. You can cynically think it won't be touched on, or you can hope that it is - all depends on how you want to go about it, really.

[Combatbutler]

It's simply that we don't know what we don't know, the story of Shadowlands hasn't been fully told yet. You can cynically think it won't be touched on, or you can hope that it is - all depends on how you want to go about it, really.

I will take the same approach I did with BFA, an xpack I called out for having a garbage story early on and was right in the end.

[sillag]

They're still canon - the same as every other novel, short story, or comic told from a given perspective.

As for the OP, I'm pretty sure there will be a fourth volume, as well. Probably post-Shadowlands so as to have enough material to cover.

this is incorrect, chronicles are not canon. there also will never be a 4th chronicles, but there will eventually probably be a new lore bible book you all get suckered into buying before yet again blizzard decides that actually the freedom to retcon everything at will is more important than any kind of consistency in wow's miserable excuse for lore.

how much money do you think you will spend on the next series of wow lore books? $50? $100? at least they will have cool pictures in them of events that may or may not be retconned within the same book in which they appear.