shadow rising spoilers matthias shaw

[Cyram]

are you guys reading the same I am?

I'm not seeing confirmation that Flynn x Shaw is a canon thing. All I read is concern for Shaw being a landlubber.

No, but seriously, the author tweeted that it's canon.
And after the blandfest that was the BobxThalysra short story, this might be more interesting.
I'm glad they're giving more visibility to LGBT characters and romantic story arcs - as cringe as they might be (Thrall's wedding), WoW's always had a bit of romance sprinkled here and there.
Yay.

[Rhlor]

For anyone who's curious it's the 3 minute mark, apparently Blizzard just told Roux make them gay in the outline she was given. So even though the excerpt in OP is decidedly lacking in any sort of romantic communication and features Shaw's glaring lack of interest and actual annoyance in Flynn and his mannerisms, some point later in the novel they're banging I guess? (Although the spoiler free review says they dunno about it as it's vague) I guess grabbing someone's hand and getting soused is enough for a relationship to blossom. That is unless it's a massive bait and switch and Roux is talking about her prominent Zandalari coupling and not "FairShaws" as it's apparently called. Listened further, can confirm grabbing hands in a storm makes you a couple.

There are relationships that start when a person invites a drink to another in a bar.

[Darknessvamp]

There are relationships that start when a person invites a drink to another in a bar.

True that does happen though I think being chucked around in a storm and only one party getting drunk whilst the other doesn't have much interest in the other in the first place doesn't really scream the start of a romantic or even friendly relationship. I mean I guess Shaw appreciates not dying (although we have to question why the spymaster rogue doesn't use his rogue skills to save himself) I doubt that would spark a sudden insatiable desire to get with Flynn. Additionally when I wrote "I guess" I meant it as a joke at the time but apparently Roux actually intended for it to be a deep defining moment in their relationship and actual representation of their attraction to one and other (regardless of it actually being written) since it's one of the few moments they actually interact in the novel and spend the majority of it separated and yet are supposedly "a major lgbt couple" in her own words by the end of it during their "reunion".

[Engal]

Not to mention that in game didn't they confirm that Shaw likes a dark haired girl, when he's talking to valeera?

Wishful thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzYXGZp7Jc

https://ibb.co/Y0D0Ws8

[Aucald]

Not to mention that in game didn't they confirm that Shaw likes a dark haired girl, when he's talking to valeera?

It's Flynn who had a crush on a "raven-haired" girl (in the quest "Raise a Glass!"), who was later confirmed to be Taelia. Apparently his affections weren't reciprocated, though.

[DatToffer]

Well I'm divided.

On one hand, if you need to quote so much text to justify your ship, you're probably just reading too much into it.

On the other hand it would definitely bury the Flynn X Taelia ship.

I just don't like either Taelia or Flynn.

[Minikin]

It's Flynn who had a crush on a "raven-haired" girl (in the quest "Raise a Glass!"), who was later confirmed to be Taelia. Apparently his affections weren't reciprocated, though.

Ah the other guy . Yea Ure right

[WaltherLeopold]

Since a few years you cannot put anything gay anywhere because no matter how, people complain that is serves no purpose is only tokenism and whatnot. There is NO way to make a gay character which will find your approval or and people i discussed with here in the forums.

You are searching for something that does not exist. Because the moment a gay character appears the anti SJW crowd will them-self MAKE this character nothing else than a token and ignore anything else. Flin and Shaw WOULD be organic. It developed over time. That said IF it even happens as there is no prove whatsoever right now that it will even happen.

I think the reason why people feel that this is valid criticism (tokenism), is because it's out of nowhere, most characters in WoW do not have an assigned sexuality, as such you have to go out of your way to give them one, Mathias Shaw has been in the game since its inception and didn't get his sexuality expressed until over 15 years after his characters inception.

For 99% of the time he's existed, he's not been gay or bisexual. That's why it feels like tokenism.

[Minikin]

Wishful thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzYXGZp7Jc

https://ibb.co/Y0D0Ws8

It's flynn. He likes taelia

[Evilfish]

What has the look of someone got to do with anything?

Quite a lot actually.

[Aresk]

I think the reason why people feel that this is valid criticism (tokenism), is because it's out of nowhere, most characters in WoW do not have an assigned sexuality, as such you have to go out of your way to give them one, Mathias Shaw has been in the game since its inception and didn't get his sexuality expressed until over 15 years after his characters inception.

For 99% of the time he's existed, he's not been gay or bisexual. That's why it feels like tokenism.

He's been equally not heterosexual during that time. It seems to me he just doesn't mix the personal and professional, and given that we've really only interacted with him in a professional manner, it makes sense that we wouldn't see anything into his attractions. I really don't expect that to change and would be surprised if he starts talking about Flynn when Flynn isn't professionally relevant or around.

[WaltherLeopold]

He's been equally not heterosexual during that time. It seems to me he just doesn't mix the personal and professional, and given that we've really only interacted with him in a professional manner, it makes sense that we wouldn't see anything into his attractions. I really don't expect that to change and would be surprised if he starts talking about Flynn when Flynn isn't professionally relevant or around.

So what? I'm explaining to you why it might seem like tokenism.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Are you genuinely surprised?

On-topic, that explains why Anduin hasn't fired Shaw for fucking up the Broken Shore and WoT. He'd get sued for discrimination.

Fucking up the broken shore? Shaw was captured by Detheroc and he took his place so the Alliance weren't informed before it was too late. And for the war of the thorns they didn't know what was going on till it was too late.

[Halyon]

https://blizzardwatch.com/2020/07/07...adeleine-roux/
writer confirms it

-

bisexual people exist

Bisexual people do indeed exist.

Word of God has been brought up before. The latest Fantastic Beasts movie did make something more obvious about Dumbledore and Grindelwald, in the book is was much more ambiguous, but subtly hinted at. The premise of the debate is that; Does Word of God make it canon if it's not actually portrayed on page? I'd lean towards no. If it doesn't feel like the characters actually have that sort of chemistry, and isn't followed up on, then I won't treat it as a fact, but it is an indication for sure.

The interview does state, specifically relating to Flynn and Shaw that it was outlined to be a same-sex couple. I'm pretty interested in how they handle that, they're almost polar opposites in personality, but hey, they say opposites attract. I just hope it's well-written then. Fluff books are great if the story is.

Tbh in the novels, romance is vastly more common than in game.

Not necessarily bad tbh, many people don't want other characters to have that much spotlight in their power-fantasies. Just ask GW2 people about Trahearne.

I think books are better at handling that due to pacing as well tbh. The writer can take their time to set things up, make a good atmosphere and pace, while in-game, at some point, I tend to just skip though things because they get boring and I have things to kill. Not everyone does this ofc, that's just me.

Edit: By 'not necessarily bad', I mean that for the sake of streamlining and not turning a mole hill into a mountain, it might be the most ...convenient. I wish people were more open to a more even story-line with more fleshed out characters that aren't story McGuffins (hi Dhadgar, Illidan...) clad in plot armor or destined to die in a sacrifice (hi Varian).

[formerShandalay]

If that means we get to hear their banter ingame more, that's fine. I liked the Alliance war-quest with those two especially because of that, so if it's going on in the same vein, I'll like it.

[Nagawithlegs]

There's already been an article saying that Flynn and Shaw are in a relationship by the end of the book, there's no hinting or anything like that.

[Aresk]

So what? I'm explaining to you why it might seem like tokenism.

I feel like taking someone who we know nothing about sexually and assuming that they must be heterosexual or else it's just to check some "inclusivity" checkbox is a symptom of heteronormativity. It will obviously come down to presentation, but just because one character didn't have such details revealed about them in the past doesn't make current efforts perfunctory in and of itself, in my opinion. Obviously other people will disagree, and ultimately it will come down to the creative team about their efforts. I know some NPC characters have been written as gay as early as BC (probably earlier), but it's not objectively revealed to the player because it's not relevant for the story the player sees (and no, I do not know who developed Shaw's character and what was decided about him back in Classic, though the fact he had a personal relationship with Edwin VanCleef and dealings with Baros Alexston suggests there may have been some thought about it back then).

[Feanoro]

Are you genuinely surprised?

On-topic, that explains why Anduin hasn't fired Shaw for fucking up the Broken Shore and WoT. He'd get sued for discrimination.

What a nice double standard.

"The Old Horde was tricked by the Legion, it's not their fault!"

"Shaw and SI:7 were tricked by the Legion, they should be punished for their incredible failure!"

[Super Dickmann]

What a nice double standard.

"The Old Horde was tricked by the Legion, it's not their fault!"

"Shaw and SI:7 were tricked by the Legion, they should be punished for their incredible failure!"

@AlmightyGurken

It is the Old Horde's fault. But I don't know why you're playing damage control for Shaw - Orgrimmar was flooded with spies and they were the vessels for fake intel that enabled the WoT, while his organisation got taken over by a dreadlord and ended up with Varian dead a while back.

The sum of Shaw's success as spymaster is extremely limited.

[WaltherLeopold]

I feel like taking someone who we know nothing about sexually and assuming that they must be heterosexual or else it's just to check some "inclusivity" checkbox is a symptom of heteronormativity.

It's not homophobic or heteronormative to assume that the default sexuality of a virtual character to be heterosexual.