The idiotic system that is Soulbinding.

[Depakote]

They said its too complicated and now changed their opinion that it isnt too complicated afterall and because of that you are complaining. Congrats it seems you are the one with idiotic thinking here.

You should go to twitter since people there love to make drama about things that been said over almost a decade ago.

Was going to type a serious reply but I see now that you and others like you are just troglodytes looking to get their kicks by disagreeing with whatever someone says even when it has some truth to it so ya, i don't think i'll bother.

[CalamityHeart]

Soulbindings are looking to be another mess of layered systems with multiple tiers of progression and limitation.

Still failing to see how it's a mess. Equip Soulbind. Equip Conduits to Soulbind. Are gems scary to you? Were relics an overwhelming, big-brain system?

You have to do something to unlock the talents in the soulbinding tree, they are only unlocked for testing on beta.

My guess would be that Soulbind talents will be locked behind anima, something you can gain organically through gameplay anyway, from what's been said.

Additionally, you have to do other shit to unlock the other soulbinds before you can even start on them.

Yeah. You have to play and progress through the game more to unlock additional content. Is that... bad? They said you have to progress through your Covenant story in order to unlock Soulbinds. Makes sense to me. What's wrong with that?

Thirdly, you don't get to "Choose" a soulbind that you want without risking having to sacrifice something else.

That's the classic definition of a "choice", my friend.

Each soulbind has differing numbers of "types" of conduit slots. Say offensive conduits are the best for your spec, but the tree you'd like to use is the one that has 3 utility or 3 defensive slots and only 2 offensive slots.

Well, now you've put yourself at a disadvantage because *for some reason* they think its a good idea to tie soulbinds to specific "roles" and "types".

So what we can almost certainly expect to see is tanks using the "tanky" soulbinds, dps using "offensive", and healers using "utility", and there wouldn't really be any variety, that'll just be what it is because its what is good.

Sure, yeah, it would be unfortunate if Blizzard weighted the Soulbind abilities and Conduit slots in such a way that there's no real choice in which Soulbind you pick. But they could very easily not do that, and balance Soulbinds in such a way that you have equal opportunity per Soulbind on whether to go for throughput or survival, and aren't necessarily shoved toward one. We've seen about 1% of what Soulbinds and Conduits have to offer. The concept is sound on paper, but I'm not ready to pass judgment until we actually see the full breadth of what we're dealing with.

[munkeyinorbit]

But i did. Just because your reading comprehension is low doesn't mean it doesn't say what I said it does. Nice try though.

Making up head cannon for your hate boner is not reading comprehension. Please provide a source.

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The one and only reason they moved away from the glyph system is because the source of the glyphs was from a profession which they wanted to stay away from as a requirement for character progression, having every classes progression tied to a single profession was just a bad design in the first place. It also kind of wrecked inscription when they moved away from that as well for a few expansions.

What about JC? It could be argued that socketed gear is the most powerful in game. I never liked glyphs and glad majors are gone but your reason doesn't make sense.

[Unholyground]

Making up head cannon for your hate boner is not reading comprehension. Please provide a source.

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What about JC? It could be argued that socketed gear is the most powerful in game. I never liked glyphs and glad majors are gone but your reason doesn't make sense.

It does make lots of sense, no gem in the game can change the gameplay of your spec instantly by having it vs not having it and they are only for stat throughput which is not a class defining thing like changing the fundamental use of an ability, and that being locked to a profession that is primary one was a poor design choice period and they realized this thankfully.

I am just happy they made all professions useful to each other again, they all make things other profs need this time around.

[NineSpine]

Was going to type a serious reply but I see now that you and others like you are just troglodytes looking to get their kicks by disagreeing with whatever someone says even when it has some truth to it so ya, i don't think i'll bother.

"We shoot for simple to learn and complex to master, and prime glyphs were the poster child for simple to learn, simple to master."

[Krakan]

"We shoot for simple to learn and complex to master, and prime glyphs were the poster child for simple to learn, simple to master."

That would defeat the grind. Just as reforging undermined their desire to gave players farm specific drops.

[Doffen]

To me soulbinds looks decent. Easy, streamlined. The only concern is tuning, but when is that never a concern.

[FelPlague]

Reading is fun. Try it some time?
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...he-change-why/

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that's not the point i'm making. The soulbind system is a convoluted mess that honestly should never see the light of day. Just re-emplement the glyph system that was in place during Cataclysm and get rid of this soulbind system.

no where in that post did they say it was too complicated, they just say there wasent really any choice, so you just bought em and then you were done till the end of the expansion.

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Good job on totally misinterpreting the thread. It's this kind of idiotic thinking that surely makes MMO-Champion the best forum out there on the internet! /s

.... You are the one who misinterpreted the thread, it literally says how they removed them because it was so simple, you just bought what you were told and boom.

[Alcsaar]

Still failing to see how it's a mess. Equip Soulbind. Equip Conduits to Soulbind. Are gems scary to you? Were relics an overwhelming, big-brain system?



My guess would be that Soulbind talents will be locked behind anima, something you can gain organically through gameplay anyway, from what's been said.



Yeah. You have to play and progress through the game more to unlock additional content. Is that... bad? They said you have to progress through your Covenant story in order to unlock Soulbinds. Makes sense to me. What's wrong with that?



That's the classic definition of a "choice", my friend.



Sure, yeah, it would be unfortunate if Blizzard weighted the Soulbind abilities and Conduit slots in such a way that there's no real choice in which Soulbind you pick. But they could very easily not do that, and balance Soulbinds in such a way that you have equal opportunity per Soulbind on whether to go for throughput or survival, and aren't necessarily shoved toward one. We've seen about 1% of what Soulbinds and Conduits have to offer. The concept is sound on paper, but I'm not ready to pass judgment until we actually see the full breadth of what we're dealing with.

Its absolutely a mess. What if I want to use the same soulbind tree for fire mage and frost mage specs? The conduits only work with specific spells, so what, I'm going to have to destroy my conduits every single time I want to play a different spec on the same soulbind with the same pathing?

Also, IDK what definition of "Choice" you're referring to. Choice isn't "Pick what you like, or pick whats best", choice is "Pick what you like because the power levels are the same"

If I want to play Necro covenant but the class ability is straight up worse than another covenants, the only "choice" there is choosing between what you like thematically at the cost of strength, or choosing strength at the cost of not liking your covenant thematically. That is NEVER a good choice to have to make. Power should be on a completely different plane from cosmetic/thematic choices.

If your only choice for gearing was "Pick whats strong but looks like trash" or "picks what looks awesome but is actually trash", that's the same concept (assuming transmog doesn't exist, because you can't "transmog" covenants). Bad choices.

[Makabreska]

Also, IDK what definition of "Choice" you're referring to. Choice isn't "Pick what you like, or pick whats best", choice is "Pick what you like because the power levels are the same"

So you are saying that we NEVER had any choice in WoW? Because we NEVER had equal power levels between talents, for example.

[jackofwind]

Reading is fun. Try it some time?
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...he-change-why/.

But that's not what it says, it says that Blizzard was removing them because they were so simple that there wasn't really a choice at all involved anymore. If anything Prime Glyphs were removed due to a lack of complexity rather than an overabundance of it.

[Gaidax]

Grasping at straws.

This is nothing more than mini Legion Artifact 2.0 not tied to item slot. Just instead of one single artifact per spec you have several artifact choices across class regardless of spec.

It's not some rocket science.

[Sunslayer]

They literally are unpruning the entire toolkit for all the classes they pruned before, and them "unpruning" the prime glyphs in this sense of soulbinding isn't new, that's what I'm getting at.

No sir, they are not. All I wanted as DK was presence swapping back it, imo, added the most depth of gameplay in PvP. It didn't come back. So, we didn't our "entire" toolkits back, not even close.

[Trinkie]

Looks like OP gave up after he failed to read, yikes

[Alcsaar]

So you are saying that we NEVER had any choice in WoW? Because we NEVER had equal power levels between talents, for example.

That has essentially been the case yes, with the difference being that *its easy to change talents* if they end up being garbage. Its specifically *not easy* to change covenants/catch up if you get fucked by a bad covenant.

Another difference is that we've never really been forced to choose between a thematic/cosmetic thing versus character power, like we will be in SL. Like the thematic of Necro covenant? Well, I hope you're happy to swallow a 5% damage loss for not going X bis covenant.

[potis]

No sir, they are not. All I wanted as DK was presence swapping back it, imo, added the most depth of gameplay in PvP. It didn't come back. So, we didn't our "entire" toolkits back, not even close.

Omg, a macro with the ability is gameplay in PvP.

And if they actually make it decision based by adding a global cooldown "WHY YOU ADDING GCD BLOZZARD".

Never stop being terrible mmo-champion.

[CalamityHeart]

Its absolutely a mess. What if I want to use the same soulbind tree for fire mage and frost mage specs? The conduits only work with specific spells, so what, I'm going to have to destroy my conduits every single time I want to play a different spec on the same soulbind with the same pathing?

Easy solution, with a tiny bit of thought. You'll more than likely have different versions of the same Soulbind tree per spec. So for one Soulbind, if you have your talents picked and your Conduits socketed for your Fire spec, and you switched to Frost spec, then the Soulbind tree will change to the Soulbind talents that you picked for Frost. Your Fire Conduits won't disappear, they'll just be replaced by the Conduits that you picked and slotted into Frost, and when you change back to Fire, your talents and Conduits will go back to what you socketed in for Fire.

Also, IDK what definition of "Choice" you're referring to. Choice isn't "Pick what you like, or pick whats best", choice is "Pick what you like because the power levels are the same"

You said that you can't choose a Soulbind without sacrificing something else. Picking one and sacrificing the other is what a choice is.

If I want to play Necro covenant but the class ability is straight up worse than another covenants, the only "choice" there is choosing between what you like thematically at the cost of strength, or choosing strength at the cost of not liking your covenant thematically. That is NEVER a good choice to have to make. Power should be on a completely different plane from cosmetic/thematic choices.

It's a design choice. Replace covenants with classes for a second. If I wanted to play paladin because I liked the concept and the class fantasy of paladins, but warrior was stronger, then the choice is the same. Is the class system all of a sudden horrible game design? Not necessarily. If you want to play Necrolords, then play Necrolords. If the Necrolord class ability isn't on the same level as other class abilities, and enough people agree with you, let Blizzard know. If Blizzard agrees with you or decides to listen, they'll look into it.

It's not the choice itself that's bad. It's on Blizzard to make the choices fair. This isn't a problem you have with the design, it's a problem you'll ultimately have with Blizzard, which is why, like I said and will say again, I will not be ready to pass judgment on this system until I see how Blizzard handles it.

[Asrialol]

OP used the word "audacity". Gotta admit, I exhaled through my nose at a greater speed than usual.

[Alcsaar]

Easy solution, with a tiny bit of thought. You'll more than likely have different versions of the same Soulbind tree per spec. So for one Soulbind, if you have your talents picked and your Conduits socketed for your Fire spec, and you switched to Frost spec, then the Soulbind tree will change to the Soulbind talents that you picked for Frost. Your Fire Conduits won't disappear, they'll just be replaced by the Conduits that you picked and slotted into Frost, and when you change back to Fire, your talents and Conduits will go back to what you socketed in for Fire.



You said that you can't choose a Soulbind without sacrificing something else. Picking one and sacrificing the other is what a choice is.



It's a design choice. Replace covenants with classes for a second. If I wanted to play paladin because I liked the concept and the class fantasy of paladins, but warrior was stronger, then the choice is the same. Is the class system all of a sudden horrible game design? Not necessarily. If you want to play Necrolords, then play Necrolords. If the Necrolord class ability isn't on the same level as other class abilities, and enough people agree with you, let Blizzard know. If Blizzard agrees with you or decides to listen, they'll look into it.

It's not the choice itself that's bad. It's on Blizzard to make the choices fair. This isn't a problem you have with the design, it's a problem you'll ultimately have with Blizzard, which is why, like I said and will say again, I will not be ready to pass judgment on this system until I see how Blizzard handles it.

You should never have to make a choice between cosmetic/thematic things, and character power. To think that is a good idea is ridiculous.

Making a choice between AoE, Cleave, or Single Target makes sense. Having to make a choice between what looks good and what is most powerful isn't.

Choices with upsides and downsides are fine when they make sense. This one doesn't.

[NineSpine]

You should never have to make a choice between cosmetic/thematic things, and character power. To think that is a good idea is ridiculous.

Making a choice between AoE, Cleave, or Single Target makes sense. Having to make a choice between what looks good and what is most powerful isn't.

Choices with upsides and downsides are fine when they make sense. This one doesn't.

You mean like... class?