9.0 General Discussion

[Atticon]

If covenants fails by being restricted, abilities will be accessible to everyone

Says Ion Hazzikostas on a Interview: https://www.pcgamer.com/wow-covenant...ffer-pcgamertw

Last resort = patch 9.3.

[Dancaris]

i dont understand that "Pantheon of death" thing. In our dimension there are 7 titans (10 if we include Azeroth and that nameless void-infused titan that Sargeras cut and Argus). In Shadowlands we have 4 "keepers" of the zones, Arbiter and Jailer.
But from recent q&a's we know that realms are infinite. And there are a possibility that number of keepers are also infinite. Unless 1 keeper can create and hold more than 1 "island". So - to preserve balance - there must be infinite titans in our dimension, infinite powerful beings in twisting nether/emerald dream/ect.
Come to think about it - titans is born in cosmos, but are creatures from OrderLand (name it how you like).
Maybe, just maybe that all creatures are born in cosmos and then comes to their Lands (Mortals comes to Shadowlands when they die, titans comes to OrderLands, Nature creatures comes to (Emerald Dream/Ardenweald); demons comes to Twisting nether and so forth.
Or - all come to Shadowlands, when they die. But aligned creatures can ascend to theirs lands. So Nature-aligned can come to NatureLand (Emerald Dream its just reflection of Azeroth in it and be reborned in Ardenweald), Titans maybe can enter OrderLand (and there are just like more titans and titans constructes, or then they die than they come to it), demons can go to Twisting Nether (where ther reborn). Void creatures come to VoidLands (where Void Lords exist), Light - to LightLands (or to VoidLands - its theirs version of Shadowlands).

[A Chozo]

So - to preserve balance

You sure there's a need to preserve some balance? Never seen that need being implied by Blizzard. Aside from the Jailer, from what it looks like most things in the Shadowlands like to stay in the Shadowlands, feeding on Anima or whatever.

Because as far as we know a normal Titan is just... so fucking powerful. Meanwhile the Covenant Archon Denathrius is the final boss of Castle Nathria and we will tackle him, so...

Covenants can be as infinite as they want, in an infinite universe with an possibly infinite number of Titans, it's all fine.

[Houle]

Idk why they'd be below the Titans in the power, considering the Jailer's confirmed to be a Titan++ Level Threat by Ion himself.

i think youre reading a bit much into that single comment of ion. he simply said that to hype up the new villain as much as possible
they also said in bfa that the titans created "something far worse than an old god, they created a blood god" (g'huun) but changed that later when they said g'huun is far weaker than any normal old god

we know fck all about the real power levels here

[huth]

i dont understand that "Pantheon of death" thing. In our dimension there are 7 titans (10 if we include Azeroth and that nameless void-infused titan that Sargeras cut and Argus). In Shadowlands we have 4 "keepers" of the zones, Arbiter and Jailer.
But from recent q&a's we know that realms are infinite. And there are a possibility that number of keepers are also infinite. Unless 1 keeper can create and hold more than 1 "island". So - to preserve balance - there must be infinite titans in our dimension, infinite powerful beings in twisting nether/emerald dream/ect.
Come to think about it - titans is born in cosmos, but are creatures from OrderLand (name it how you like).

Pantheon doesn't say anything about how many there are. There is no reason to assume the "Pantheon of Death" has the same number of members as the Titan Pantheon.

[Syegfryed]

Have another then:

i think this is mor realistic

and the cheese, tomato and the meat are in the same row of talents, you have to chose what you eat, awful design.

[gunner_recall]

i think this is mor realistic

and the cheese, tomato and the meat are in the same row of talents, you have to chose what you eat, awful design.

And the meat is wagyu, the cheese is a kraft single they found in the back of the fridge with an expiration date of ??/??/????, and the tomato is actually just a puddle of ketchup someone froze.

Then the next row is all gourmet ingredients.

[Houle]

ignoring the fact that ...

if the class is designed around using the 'borrowed power' then the 'borrowed power' is part of the class. The only alternative is to not have anything at all, or have that power not help you in any way. You have to do 100% So if you tac something onto that then it has to take away from your baseline.

And this isnt...hard to understand or figure out. its literally a hunter passive. You do 10% more dmg, unless you have a pet, which should provide about a 10% damage boost.

In wrath it was just our power so we did 100% of our dmg. in legion we had artifacts so a % of our power was artifacts.

i mean it might slightly maybe a little bit take away from content before the expansion but like.... "oh no i have 1 less ability and do 10% less dmg because i'm lvl 50 and the other guy in the timewalk is lvl 60" isnt game breaking or even slightly inconvenient.

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but yea if a class is designed aroudn the idea that 'you will have a artifact to 'plug the hole" then that plug is PART of the class design

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yea sorry if i dont give any credence to this b.s. statement.

yea if the heroes get stronger than the next thing to 'threaten' them needs to be stronger still. there are other ways to do things but its like saying "oh so your HERO is opposed by a VILLAIN, how original *eyeroll*"

like god. the game has got to be good if the best criticisms out there are "they are bad because they are using a regular writing technique" . "they are bad because your fantasy character's power partially comes from their magic weapon', "they are bad because that rogue does 2% more dmg than me"

at what point do you log off and calm down

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^ the circle jerk continues

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we are empowered by our convenant and soul bonded. if Sylvannas' soulbind with the jailer is able to give her that power boost then our attatchment to our soulbinds probably give almost as much.

did that interview suggest that the pantheon of death was as physically powerful as the titans? cus i figured when they said that they just meant they are like...the bosses of the shadowlands

like rezan was the god of kings but he still got muuuurdeeeerred

my dude, i couldnt care less if you give any credence to that
maybe, just maybe, if that many people (some here who supported blizz for years) think its bullshit what blizz is doing, it truly is bullshit?
but noooo, you are right, blizz cant do wrong.

[dcc626]

That recent interview with Danuser and the other guy was hilarious.

They spent the entire interview patting themselves on the back for a job well done. The only criticism they had for themselves is that they didn't make their "amazing" plot threads more apparent. As in, it was a disjointed mess.

speaking of a disjointed mess, i see you got unbanned

[Aeluron Lightsong]

my dude, i couldnt care less if you give any credence to that
maybe, just maybe, if that many people (some here who supported blizz for years) think its bullshit what blizz is doing, it truly is bullshit?
but noooo, you are right, blizz cant do wrong.

Its more probable that people just like to hate on Blizzard, thats just how MMO-Champion works regardless of what Blizz said about villains needing to be Titanesque powerful. People want "stakes" as in something notable to be worth paying attention. While I'm more flexible, the community seems to be more stingy.

[DemonDays]

And the meat is wagyu, the cheese is a kraft single they found in the back of the fridge with an expiration date of ??/??/????, and the tomato is actually just a puddle of ketchup someone froze.

Then the next row is all gourmet ingredients.

Hahaha perfect analogy.

The Meat is Wagyu with a marble score of 9.

The Cheese is mouldy 8 month old cheese.

The Tomato isn't even tomato. Its capsicum.

[Edward Wu]

Alright, where's the catch?

So far Shadowlands seems really solid and I can't pinpoint any hugely problematic issue. So, where is it? I obviously must have missed it.

[MadamSerenity]

Alright, where's the catch?

So far Shadowlands seems really solid and I can't pinpoint any hugely problematic issue. So, where is it? I obviously must have missed it.

Most of the vocal community will tell you it is covenant abilities.

[LemonDemonGirl]

WoW's like an Anime now with all the Power Level talk. Our characters are basically gods now too. I mean, we've killed a world-destroying dragon, the damn Lich King, an Old God (wait no, several Old Gods), stopped the Legion and now we're going to the Afterlife to defeat WoW's version of the the Devil lol

Can my characters have a Stand now too if it is? /s

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We didn't kill the Lich King he killed us and Tiron saved us from being turned into Undead uber soldiers by Arthas. Deathwing died not by us(Thrall and the dragonsoul or was it demon soul).

Heck Garrosh didn't even die...and yeah Archimonde died so.. thats nice I guess. Oh and we didn't kill Gul'dan...someone stole that kill *Cough*

[infinitemeridian]

Most of the playerbase doesn't give a fuck about balance. The game is more fun when things our unbalanced anyways and can never be balanced 100% anyways.

[MrLachyG]

im curious, is most of the maw blocked off when youre doing the intro scenario or can you freeroam the zone

I would guess that it is blocked off

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Nice strawman and false claims at play here

I mean he's not wrong. 36 specs; 6 tanks, 6 heals and 24 dps - Blizzard will never make them equal. what they should aim for is boosting spec utility so people will bring them to raids and making them fun so people choose to play them despite the slightly lower dps/heals/mitigation

[Edward Wu]

Honestly I exclusively listen to high level players as I feel anyone who isn't doesn't really know what they are talking about.

So I will never value the opinion of people like Asmongold, Bellular, and Towellie who aren't good at the game.
People who actually are good like Slootbag, Preach, Hydra and some others do like the expansions even though they have some justified reservations about it (Covenants, GCD, Conduits) etc.

As long as those guys are pretty happy about SL, I'm just peachy about its state of development.

[Dracullus]

People who actually are good like Slootbag, Preach, Hydra and some others do like the expansions even though they have some justified reservations about it (Covenants, GCD, Conduits) etc.

Yeah, I don't always agree with Preach, but I know he's honest.

Although I remember how he enjoyed first few months of WoD (no wonder, it really was expac tailored for people like him) and I see that SL moves in that direction. Hopefully it will land somewhere in the middle between grind (BfA), RNG (Legion) and 'nothing to do' (WoD).

[TheFirstOnes]

i think youre reading a bit much into that single comment of ion. he simply said that to hype up the new villain as much as possible
they also said in bfa that the titans created "something far worse than an old god, they created a blood god" (g'huun) but changed that later when they said g'huun is far weaker than any normal old god

we know fck all about the real power levels here

They never really said that tbh. The dungeon journal, and other factors imply that it was something that was far worse than the Titans imagined, but they never directly compared it with an Old God.

G'huun Adventure Guide description: "In Uldir, the titans had hoped to find a solution to the Old Gods. But when they experimented upon the Old Gods' unending, ravenous need to corrupt, they unexpectedly created a perfect avatar of that desire. G'huun is nothing but rot, pestilence, and decay, the ultimate parasite who cannot stop itself from consuming its host until it is gone."

Meanwhile, they already stated that the Pantheon of Death were "On par" with the Titan Pantheon we know today, and it's stated by Ion that the Jailer is a Titan++ Level threat, so I would assume that this is what we're face. A threat that's beyond the Titan's. It's not impossible to do, considering what we went through during both Legion and BFA.

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Honestly I exclusively listen to high level players as I feel anyone who isn't doesn't really know what they are talking about.

So I will never value the opinion of people like Asmongold, Bellular, and Towellie who aren't good at the game.
People who actually are good like Slootbag, Preach, Hydra and some others do like the expansions even though they have some justified reservations about it (Covenants, GCD, Conduits) etc.

As long as those guys are pretty happy about SL, I'm just peachy about its state of development.

I'd say Asmongold and Towelliee are rather great at the game tbh. Both of them support what Shadowlands is doing rn, though Asmongold's much more skeptical on it, and rightfully so, considering what we got in BFA.

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he is



a heroic raider does care if he suddenly one-shotting the whole tier like emerald nightmare because blizzard is to dumb to balance their borrowed power systems. And you can apply this to content harder or easier than this. His strawman point that implies we are talking about 1%-2% balance issues between clases that only mythic WF or MDI people care either shows that he is intellectually dishonest or just dont have a clue about the game

You just need a brain to realize that if any covenant combination is gonna be able to clear any content how skewed is gonna be

Quiet down dude. I agree that the Balancing is fucked, but I will also agree with the idea that Blizzard cannot balance everything in the game. That's simply impossible to do, from a Developer standpoint. However, there still needs to be a somewhat constructive balance in what you're doing. And if Blizzard can make covenants not completely broken and for the most part "balanced" in a way where things aren't completely game-breaking, then Shadowlands will be better off there.

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Alright, where's the catch?

So far Shadowlands seems really solid and I can't pinpoint any hugely problematic issue. So, where is it? I obviously must have missed it.

Covenant Abilities. But, I'll wait until I actually see wtf they do in Beta.